YAP-LBT (Yet Another Programmer-Language Bias Thread)
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Now I am not trying to pick on this guy, he seems decent enough, but with all the arguments the past few days I thought this thread was a great example of why "some" developers (like me :-D) have such a bias against VB. VBer in a C# Thread[^]
led mike wrote:
I thought this thread was a great example of why "some" developers (like me ) have such a bias against VB.
Okay - but what about VB.NET? Most of the bad VB code seems to have come from ex-classic-VBers and there are many of them who are now using C#. Why treat VB.NET as a lesser language compared to C#? Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New) -
led mike wrote:
I thought this thread was a great example of why "some" developers (like me ) have such a bias against VB.
Okay - but what about VB.NET? Most of the bad VB code seems to have come from ex-classic-VBers and there are many of them who are now using C#. Why treat VB.NET as a lesser language compared to C#? Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Why treat VB.NET as a lesser language compared to C#?
10. Because Soccer is a boring sport to watch
9. Because Cricket is worse than soccer
8. Because I don't like typing in ALL CAPS
7. Because they didn't call it VB++
6. Because I don't want to GOTO anywhere
5. Because they started it
4. Because Soccer is a boring sport to watch
3. Because SUB ENDSUB
2. Because it's fun- Because I can
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Why treat VB.NET as a lesser language compared to C#?
10. Because Soccer is a boring sport to watch
9. Because Cricket is worse than soccer
8. Because I don't like typing in ALL CAPS
7. Because they didn't call it VB++
6. Because I don't want to GOTO anywhere
5. Because they started it
4. Because Soccer is a boring sport to watch
3. Because SUB ENDSUB
2. Because it's fun- Because I can
led mike wrote:
10. Because Soccer is a boring sport to watch 9. Because Cricket is worse than soccer 8. Because I don't like typing in ALL CAPS 7. Because they didn't call it VB++ 6. Because I don't want to GOTO anywhere 5. Because they started it 4. Because Soccer is a boring sport to watch 3. Because SUB ENDSUB 2. Because it's fun 1. Because I can
Only reasons 2 and 1 make sense to me. And those reasons can be applied by any programmer to bash an un-favorite programming language. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New) -
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Why treat VB.NET as a lesser language compared to C#?
10. Because Soccer is a boring sport to watch
9. Because Cricket is worse than soccer
8. Because I don't like typing in ALL CAPS
7. Because they didn't call it VB++
6. Because I don't want to GOTO anywhere
5. Because they started it
4. Because Soccer is a boring sport to watch
3. Because SUB ENDSUB
2. Because it's fun- Because I can
led mike wrote:
Because I don't like typing in ALL CAPS
YOU DON'T HAVE TO EITHER IN VB. Jeremy Falcon
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led mike wrote:
I thought this thread was a great example of why "some" developers (like me ) have such a bias against VB.
Okay - but what about VB.NET? Most of the bad VB code seems to have come from ex-classic-VBers and there are many of them who are now using C#. Why treat VB.NET as a lesser language compared to C#? Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Why treat VB.NET as a lesser language compared to C#?
Why indeed? :rolleyes:
My programming blahblahblah blog. If you ever find anything useful here, please let me know to remove it.
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led mike wrote:
10. Because Soccer is a boring sport to watch 9. Because Cricket is worse than soccer 8. Because I don't like typing in ALL CAPS 7. Because they didn't call it VB++ 6. Because I don't want to GOTO anywhere 5. Because they started it 4. Because Soccer is a boring sport to watch 3. Because SUB ENDSUB 2. Because it's fun 1. Because I can
Only reasons 2 and 1 make sense to me. And those reasons can be applied by any programmer to bash an un-favorite programming language. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)Ok. So you want me to be serious, how about this: Because it perpetuates elevating people like that to the position of "software developer". Did you even read the thread? In his first post he states he created an infinite loop on purpose, then later states
"im surprised because in vb5 (which is older) we don't need to worry about this kinda problem."Now many of us in the industry face the kind of problem created from managers believing someone like that actually knows how to develop software. I guess for me the issue has a lot of tainted history and I need to let go of it. :sigh: -
Ok. So you want me to be serious, how about this: Because it perpetuates elevating people like that to the position of "software developer". Did you even read the thread? In his first post he states he created an infinite loop on purpose, then later states
"im surprised because in vb5 (which is older) we don't need to worry about this kinda problem."Now many of us in the industry face the kind of problem created from managers believing someone like that actually knows how to develop software. I guess for me the issue has a lot of tainted history and I need to let go of it. :sigh:Bahh! Your being unfair. I just read the post, and he's just unfamiliar with multithreaded technique and logic. And a lot of win32 C++ programmers are also. And my defense isn't due to our sharing a similar name. :doh: Many an MFC programmer would try some lengthy process in the UI thread and wonder why the cancel button wouldn't work. But I'll agree that VB gives me a headache and makes me think that I've been hit with a virus. ;) This statement is false.
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Ok. So you want me to be serious, how about this: Because it perpetuates elevating people like that to the position of "software developer". Did you even read the thread? In his first post he states he created an infinite loop on purpose, then later states
"im surprised because in vb5 (which is older) we don't need to worry about this kinda problem."Now many of us in the industry face the kind of problem created from managers believing someone like that actually knows how to develop software. I guess for me the issue has a lot of tainted history and I need to let go of it. :sigh:Oh, I don't know. When I first went from VB 6 to C#, I had a similar problem getting the multi-threading worked out. Of course, once I tried some sample code and figured out what was happening, I finally figured it out. But it's confusing for someone who is used to one language/platform to figure out why it doesn't work in the new language/platform. Flynn
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Now I am not trying to pick on this guy, he seems decent enough, but with all the arguments the past few days I thought this thread was a great example of why "some" developers (like me :-D) have such a bias against VB. VBer in a C# Thread[^]
This response to the suggestion to use threads had me ROTF! I was leaning toward multithread. but im surprised because in vb5 (which is older) we don't need to worry about this kinda problem. Ah, what a great language. You can code an infinite loop in the main thread and the app still keeps running. Isn't it amazing how the guys that engineered (using the term loosely) VB5 protected the programmer from himself? Imagine how many VB5 apps out there have infinite loops that nobody knows about. :laugh: Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson -- modified at 17:06 Tuesday 20th June, 2006
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led mike wrote:
I thought this thread was a great example of why "some" developers (like me ) have such a bias against VB.
Okay - but what about VB.NET? Most of the bad VB code seems to have come from ex-classic-VBers and there are many of them who are now using C#. Why treat VB.NET as a lesser language compared to C#? Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)It's not the language, it's the developers :). VB .NET is a good thing though, lots of healthy internal competition between the C# and VB groups. Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
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led mike wrote:
Because I don't like typing in ALL CAPS
YOU DON'T HAVE TO EITHER IN VB. Jeremy Falcon
Stop yelling man, we can hear you! ;P
-- 100% natural. No superstitious additives.
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This response to the suggestion to use threads had me ROTF! I was leaning toward multithread. but im surprised because in vb5 (which is older) we don't need to worry about this kinda problem. Ah, what a great language. You can code an infinite loop in the main thread and the app still keeps running. Isn't it amazing how the guys that engineered (using the term loosely) VB5 protected the programmer from himself? Imagine how many VB5 apps out there have infinite loops that nobody knows about. :laugh: Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson -- modified at 17:06 Tuesday 20th June, 2006
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led mike wrote:
I thought this thread was a great example of why "some" developers (like me ) have such a bias against VB.
Okay - but what about VB.NET? Most of the bad VB code seems to have come from ex-classic-VBers and there are many of them who are now using C#. Why treat VB.NET as a lesser language compared to C#? Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New) -
Now I am not trying to pick on this guy, he seems decent enough, but with all the arguments the past few days I thought this thread was a great example of why "some" developers (like me :-D) have such a bias against VB. VBer in a C# Thread[^]
led mike wrote:
have such a bias against VB.
Against VB or VB programmers? :) /ravi
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Stop yelling man, we can hear you! ;P
-- 100% natural. No superstitious additives.
:rolleyes: Jeremy Falcon
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Bahh! Your being unfair. I just read the post, and he's just unfamiliar with multithreaded technique and logic. And a lot of win32 C++ programmers are also. And my defense isn't due to our sharing a similar name. :doh: Many an MFC programmer would try some lengthy process in the UI thread and wonder why the cancel button wouldn't work. But I'll agree that VB gives me a headache and makes me think that I've been hit with a virus. ;) This statement is false.
The word for a programmer who doesn't understand threads is incompetent. The only difference in this regard between a win32 programmer and a VB programmer is that the former surprises me. -- modified at 6:49 Friday 23rd June, 2006 If you think this is harsh this is probably because you haven't just spent six months cleaning up a set of services written by people who used timer callbacks to achieve what might generously be called concurrency. In the end my boss caved in and said ok you can rewrite it from scratch. This took...a week including thorough unit testing with a variety of GSM devices (it's a comms protocol over SMS). It was out of QA and in production in a fortnight. There is half the code (500 lines down from 1100), it works properly under load instead of losing messages, it recovers from modem glitches properly and it's roughly 20 times faster. I am not a coding genius. I'm just competent.
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The word for a programmer who doesn't understand threads is incompetent. The only difference in this regard between a win32 programmer and a VB programmer is that the former surprises me. -- modified at 6:49 Friday 23rd June, 2006 If you think this is harsh this is probably because you haven't just spent six months cleaning up a set of services written by people who used timer callbacks to achieve what might generously be called concurrency. In the end my boss caved in and said ok you can rewrite it from scratch. This took...a week including thorough unit testing with a variety of GSM devices (it's a comms protocol over SMS). It was out of QA and in production in a fortnight. There is half the code (500 lines down from 1100), it works properly under load instead of losing messages, it recovers from modem glitches properly and it's roughly 20 times faster. I am not a coding genius. I'm just competent.
I'm gonna bash Ok, I was trying to be gracious, I have trouble thinking that VB is a programming language, but in the business realms they do get work done in it. But this is getting business code done fast for those marketing people(generous) that sell it before its done. Forget scalability and maintenance. I did inherit a project, in C#, from a VB programmer, and rewrote the whole thing. Citing similar issues. For that matter, in line with your harsh statement ;) I wrote a service that scraped FedEx sites and updated status in a database from an excel spreadsheet and the new guy who is mostly Crystal, VB, ASP, kept asking why I did it asyncronously instead of inlined, and why I broke all the operations to their atomic level and tossed each one to the thread pool. He thought it was too complicated. He was only thinking of how fast the code should have been written, not how well it should perform, whether it would scale as business grew, and whether it would support new and changing requirements. Of course they all were a bit surprised when it went through 600 records in 30 seconds. And they could extend it to manage their other shipping departments by adding some more rows to a couple of tables. But seriously, there are different levels of competence. And you know, I wouldn't take a job just writing reports and providing views into the database, and that's what VB (I guess) is good for. People not as in depth or that don't want to get as in depth as the level you expect still have a place and are competent for the task at hand. (I can't believe I'm defending VB. Shoot me now) This statement is false.