Is Microsoft about to release a Windows "kill switch"?
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I suspect that becoming insanely paranoid about people pirating their increasingly replaceable product is one of the signs that a software maker has completely lost their focus... :suss:
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Don't even get me started on that whole dongle bullsh*t. The company I work for makes large pieces of equipment. A typical installation can run over $1M for one system. The software that runs the whole mess is worthless without all of the 'big iron', and yet the powers that be are making us 'protect' it using a dongle :wtf:. Not only that, but they're having the folks who make the applications that make the data for the thing protect their applications as well.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
Don't even get me started on that whole dongle bullsh*t. The company I work for makes large pieces of equipment. A typical installation can run over $1M for one system. The software that runs the whole mess is worthless without all of the 'big iron', and yet the powers that be are making us 'protect' it using a dongle :wtf:. Not only that, but they're having the folks who make the applications that make the data for the thing protect their applications as well.
Software Zen:
delete this;Gary R. Wheeler wrote:
The software that runs the whole mess is worthless without all of the 'big iron'
I'm in exactly the same situation. We haven't done dongels yet, but every piece of software is "branded" with the customer name to discourage copying. Hell, if it were my call - I'd hand it out like candy. "The trouble with jogging is that the ice falls out of your glass." - Martin Mull
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http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=84[^] Got this from an MS private NG. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)Gee, I'm stumped why anyone would even think they have the right to steal...or complain when the owner attempts in a unique (and possibly effective way) to bitch-slap those thieves. If you steal phone service the phone company cuts off your access and no one complains. If you steal electricity from the power company and the company catches on you lose access to power and possibly go to jail. No one complains about that. Why is it that cry-baby software thieve are taken so seriously by usually intelligent people?
“Profanity is the attempt of a lazy and feeble mind to express itself forcefully”
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Gee, I'm stumped why anyone would even think they have the right to steal...or complain when the owner attempts in a unique (and possibly effective way) to bitch-slap those thieves. If you steal phone service the phone company cuts off your access and no one complains. If you steal electricity from the power company and the company catches on you lose access to power and possibly go to jail. No one complains about that. Why is it that cry-baby software thieve are taken so seriously by usually intelligent people?
“Profanity is the attempt of a lazy and feeble mind to express itself forcefully”
Jerry Hammond wrote:
Gee, I'm stumped why anyone would <snip> complain when the owner attempts in a unique (and possibly effective way) to bitch-slap those thieves.
Because Microsoft screws up. I know of a couple of people who have bought legitimate copies of Windows, and activation has failed because Microsoft told them it was pirated. Furthermore, I know the people who run the store they bought it from, and I know that they bought the copies legitimately from Microsoft.
Ryan
"Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"
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Gee, I'm stumped why anyone would even think they have the right to steal...or complain when the owner attempts in a unique (and possibly effective way) to bitch-slap those thieves. If you steal phone service the phone company cuts off your access and no one complains. If you steal electricity from the power company and the company catches on you lose access to power and possibly go to jail. No one complains about that. Why is it that cry-baby software thieve are taken so seriously by usually intelligent people?
“Profanity is the attempt of a lazy and feeble mind to express itself forcefully”
Jerry Hammond wrote:
If you steal electricity from the power company and the company catches on you lose access to power and possibly go to jail. No one complains about that.
Damn right. What's with all these whiny computer users, anyway? If your neighbor stole power and the electric company mistakenly blamed you, cut off your power, and had you arrested, i think you might have a few choice words to say about it. But maybe not. And if not, well, i salute you sir, for reducing the amount of complaining being done... Oh, did i mention? The power company found out about the theft after you'd called in to complain about your unusually large bills. They just assumed you were to blame because your neighbor had also stolen your favorite monogrammed extension cord while he was sneaking around your tool shed looking for an out-of-the-way socket to tap. So, uh, yeah, in the end, the theft hurt you a whole lot more than it ever did the power Co. But you're a trooper, right? You can stand a little extra pain, expense, and time in the poky if it means that your neighbor will be forced to go to a little extra trouble next time he wants some free electricity. Hats off to you, i say...
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Gee, I'm stumped why anyone would even think they have the right to steal...or complain when the owner attempts in a unique (and possibly effective way) to bitch-slap those thieves. If you steal phone service the phone company cuts off your access and no one complains. If you steal electricity from the power company and the company catches on you lose access to power and possibly go to jail. No one complains about that. Why is it that cry-baby software thieve are taken so seriously by usually intelligent people?
“Profanity is the attempt of a lazy and feeble mind to express itself forcefully”
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Jerry Hammond wrote:
If you steal electricity from the power company and the company catches on you lose access to power and possibly go to jail. No one complains about that.
Damn right. What's with all these whiny computer users, anyway? If your neighbor stole power and the electric company mistakenly blamed you, cut off your power, and had you arrested, i think you might have a few choice words to say about it. But maybe not. And if not, well, i salute you sir, for reducing the amount of complaining being done... Oh, did i mention? The power company found out about the theft after you'd called in to complain about your unusually large bills. They just assumed you were to blame because your neighbor had also stolen your favorite monogrammed extension cord while he was sneaking around your tool shed looking for an out-of-the-way socket to tap. So, uh, yeah, in the end, the theft hurt you a whole lot more than it ever did the power Co. But you're a trooper, right? You can stand a little extra pain, expense, and time in the poky if it means that your neighbor will be forced to go to a little extra trouble next time he wants some free electricity. Hats off to you, i say...
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Sorry, Shog, but in the fanal analysis your argument fails muster. It makes no sense to deprive a developer (MS or other) the ability or right to protect their investment because a mistake "might happen". One thing does strike me about this thread though...how this site in the past year has become less and less pro developer rights and more and more about protecting the leeches and thieves of the software market. :(
“Profanity is the attempt of a lazy and feeble mind to express itself forcefully”
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The question was already raised in the thread. What if you own a legitimate copy of windows, but for whatever reason don't want to install WGA?
JazzJackRabbit wrote:
The question was already raised in the thread. What if you own a legitimate copy of windows, but for whatever reason don't want to install WGA?
Fine. Don't. But don't expect the *free* updates and such either.
“Profanity is the attempt of a lazy and feeble mind to express itself forcefully”
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Sorry, Shog, but in the fanal analysis your argument fails muster. It makes no sense to deprive a developer (MS or other) the ability or right to protect their investment because a mistake "might happen". One thing does strike me about this thread though...how this site in the past year has become less and less pro developer rights and more and more about protecting the leeches and thieves of the software market. :(
“Profanity is the attempt of a lazy and feeble mind to express itself forcefully”
Jerry Hammond wrote:
It makes no sense to deprive a developer (MS or other)
No one [in this thread at any rate] is depriving MS of anything. They are free to do what they want to with the products they release. That said, their products are the foundation on which is built my bread'n'butter - if i think they're doing something stupid, i'm gonna say so. Of course, they're free to ignore me, and quite likely will... but i'm still gonna say it. :) It isn't about protecting leeches and thieves. It's about how many hoops that you and i and every other Windows user are gonna end up being forced to jump through in the hope that the lazier leeches won't bother, and the stupider thieves won't see how to walk around them. Once again, this is the Operating System we're talking about; someone calls me up and says WGA just disabled their OS, i can't just tell 'em to use something else for the evening and we'll work it out tomorrow - they're unable to work, unable to use any of their other apps until the problem is resolved. As if it wasn't bad enough out there, trying to keep people from installing spyware and adware and worms and Norton Antivirus... now i have to worry about MS themselves breaking Windows? Uh, no thanks!
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I suspect that becoming insanely paranoid about people pirating their increasingly replaceable product is one of the signs that a software maker has completely lost their focus... :suss:
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JazzJackRabbit wrote:
The question was already raised in the thread. What if you own a legitimate copy of windows, but for whatever reason don't want to install WGA?
Fine. Don't. But don't expect the *free* updates and such either.
“Profanity is the attempt of a lazy and feeble mind to express itself forcefully”
Oh, you mean the free BUG FIXES and stuff that they left in the OS when they shipped it? I pay for a CD, I have a license certificate, I have the packaging, I have the sticker and I have the number that says I own it. If they want to SEE the stuff they can drive their silly butt over here and look at it.
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Heh, good point. Brought to mind those newspaper vending machines - the ones where the only thing stopping you from taking more than one paper is your honesty and the utter pointlessness of stealing something you'll be discarding unused anyway. Not really the same, but...
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http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=84[^] Got this from an MS private NG. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)The article says this at the very end:
If Microsoft really does plan to turn WGA into a kill switch in September, be prepared for an enormous backlash.Do you want to know how much Microsoft honestly cares about "backlash?" They laugh at "backlash." Microsoft has spent the last 31 years carefully placing the noose around everyone's neck. And now that they are about to tighten it, people think their complaints will mean anything? Microsoft's response will be to laugh even harder as they pull open the trap door! -
I suspect that becoming insanely paranoid about people pirating their increasingly replaceable product is one of the signs that a software maker has completely lost their focus... :suss:
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Oh, you mean the free BUG FIXES and stuff that they left in the OS when they shipped it? I pay for a CD, I have a license certificate, I have the packaging, I have the sticker and I have the number that says I own it. If they want to SEE the stuff they can drive their silly butt over here and look at it.
When you take your dvd-player back to the store to have it repaired because it was broken, you have to present a warrenty to show that you own it and have a right to get it fixed. To get your windows fixed because it is broken, you have to present warrenty in the same manner. Warrenty for Windows when downloading is WGA. And yes, it is completely logical to expect Microsoft to verify your copy by driving out to you to view your recit, yes indeed, because that is how it works for everything else. Good thing we keep such debates as this on a logical level (oh, wait.... *rolleyes*) You secure your sellable products to avoid people taking them withouth paying for them. Microsoft is doing the same, and yes - it is annoying for all the legal customers, but unfortunally we only have the people pirating the products to thank/blame. People are just not used to these things in the software world, however they've lived with equvivalent issues and effects in the "physical product" world for ages. --------------------------- 127.0.0.1 - Sweet 127.0.0.1
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J. Dunlap wrote:
seriously start considering a switch to Linux
Right cause then you just double click the .MSI file and everything would automagically work! X|
led mike wrote:
just double click the .MSI file and everything would automagically work!
Well, it should by now. Microsoft has been working on the technology for freakin years.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
I suspect that becoming insanely paranoid about people pirating their increasingly replaceable product is one of the signs that a software maker has completely lost their focus... :suss:
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I think .NET was a good indication of that...
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Looks like Macs are the wave of the future. :laugh: Jeremy Falcon
Actually, I don't think so. They still cost too much for what you get... I recently put a AMD64 3200 box together with mild graphics, 2gb RAM, 240gb of drive space, DVD writer, and a 17-inch LCD for less that $650. For another $150, I could have gone to a dual core 3800. That's 4 times the defaut drive space, and 4 times the memory as an entry-level Imac, and for roughly 1/2 the price. Assuming a Linux install (because we are, afterall, talking about alternatives to Windows), we remain at roughly 1/2 the price. Additionally, the PC is infinitely more upgradable than a Mac ever will be. Hell, you can only put 2gb of ram into those things, while a typical PC can hold four. Don't get me wrong. Macs are cute, hippies love 'em, and they're very "media" oriented, but if you want to get real work done, go with a PC.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
When you take your dvd-player back to the store to have it repaired because it was broken, you have to present a warrenty to show that you own it and have a right to get it fixed. To get your windows fixed because it is broken, you have to present warrenty in the same manner. Warrenty for Windows when downloading is WGA. And yes, it is completely logical to expect Microsoft to verify your copy by driving out to you to view your recit, yes indeed, because that is how it works for everything else. Good thing we keep such debates as this on a logical level (oh, wait.... *rolleyes*) You secure your sellable products to avoid people taking them withouth paying for them. Microsoft is doing the same, and yes - it is annoying for all the legal customers, but unfortunally we only have the people pirating the products to thank/blame. People are just not used to these things in the software world, however they've lived with equvivalent issues and effects in the "physical product" world for ages. --------------------------- 127.0.0.1 - Sweet 127.0.0.1
Alsvha wrote:
When you take your dvd-player back to the store to have it repaired because it was broken, you have to present a warrenty to show that you own it and have a right to get it fixed.
Ah, no I don't. Once I send in my little warranty card after purchase they have a record of the fact that I won the product and the warranty period starts ticking there. Even if I buy an extended warranty it works the same way. They warranty is a bearer instrument. Once I register it I can send it in no questions asked. Now if I want to return it I need to prove that I purchased it, but not to get it fixed. Lets not make wisecracks about being logical here. I am not REALLY thinking that they will come out and physically view my receipt. What I am asking is that once I go through the WPA process they should believe ME and allow me to get my 'fixes', not make me go through another level of validation. If they want me to do WGA then that means that WPA does not work and they should drop that.
Alsvha wrote:
You secure your sellable products to avoid people taking them without paying for them.
Yes, I do, but I do not make them jump through hoops to do it. I put a lot of work into my purchasing/licensing scheme and rely on that. Building layer upon layer of validation does nothing at all but prove that most of the layers do not work. Look, this is a simple thing to take care of. Assign each copy of windows a unique number and assign each point of sale a unique number. Then when you validate the product upon installation give the user a certificate that needs to be faxed in along with a copy of the receipt showing where it was purchased. Once that product code and purchase location code have been validated and stored along with the receipt you are DONE. If another person tries to register using that same product code but a different vendor code then THEY are the cheaters and deny them at that time.
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led mike wrote:
just double click the .MSI file and everything would automagically work!
Well, it should by now. Microsoft has been working on the technology for freakin years.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001hmmm not sure anyone got my point. I quoted J.Dunlap statements about "switching to Linux" and I said "Right cause then (in Linux) you just double click the .MSI file....". In other words getting all that stuff to function in Linux is not going to be any easier than with the MS products.
