Is Microsoft about to release a Windows "kill switch"?
-
I suspect that becoming insanely paranoid about people pirating their increasingly replaceable product is one of the signs that a software maker has completely lost their focus... :suss:
---- Scripts i’ve known... CPhog 1.0.0.0 - make CP better. Forum Bookmark 0.2.5 - bookmark forum posts on Pensieve Print forum 0.1.2 - printer-friendly forums Expand all 1.0 - Expand all messages In-place Delete 1.0 - AJAX-style post delete Syntax 0.1 - Syntax highlighting for code blocks in the forums
I think .NET was a good indication of that...
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Looks like Macs are the wave of the future. :laugh: Jeremy Falcon
Actually, I don't think so. They still cost too much for what you get... I recently put a AMD64 3200 box together with mild graphics, 2gb RAM, 240gb of drive space, DVD writer, and a 17-inch LCD for less that $650. For another $150, I could have gone to a dual core 3800. That's 4 times the defaut drive space, and 4 times the memory as an entry-level Imac, and for roughly 1/2 the price. Assuming a Linux install (because we are, afterall, talking about alternatives to Windows), we remain at roughly 1/2 the price. Additionally, the PC is infinitely more upgradable than a Mac ever will be. Hell, you can only put 2gb of ram into those things, while a typical PC can hold four. Don't get me wrong. Macs are cute, hippies love 'em, and they're very "media" oriented, but if you want to get real work done, go with a PC.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
When you take your dvd-player back to the store to have it repaired because it was broken, you have to present a warrenty to show that you own it and have a right to get it fixed. To get your windows fixed because it is broken, you have to present warrenty in the same manner. Warrenty for Windows when downloading is WGA. And yes, it is completely logical to expect Microsoft to verify your copy by driving out to you to view your recit, yes indeed, because that is how it works for everything else. Good thing we keep such debates as this on a logical level (oh, wait.... *rolleyes*) You secure your sellable products to avoid people taking them withouth paying for them. Microsoft is doing the same, and yes - it is annoying for all the legal customers, but unfortunally we only have the people pirating the products to thank/blame. People are just not used to these things in the software world, however they've lived with equvivalent issues and effects in the "physical product" world for ages. --------------------------- 127.0.0.1 - Sweet 127.0.0.1
Alsvha wrote:
When you take your dvd-player back to the store to have it repaired because it was broken, you have to present a warrenty to show that you own it and have a right to get it fixed.
Ah, no I don't. Once I send in my little warranty card after purchase they have a record of the fact that I won the product and the warranty period starts ticking there. Even if I buy an extended warranty it works the same way. They warranty is a bearer instrument. Once I register it I can send it in no questions asked. Now if I want to return it I need to prove that I purchased it, but not to get it fixed. Lets not make wisecracks about being logical here. I am not REALLY thinking that they will come out and physically view my receipt. What I am asking is that once I go through the WPA process they should believe ME and allow me to get my 'fixes', not make me go through another level of validation. If they want me to do WGA then that means that WPA does not work and they should drop that.
Alsvha wrote:
You secure your sellable products to avoid people taking them without paying for them.
Yes, I do, but I do not make them jump through hoops to do it. I put a lot of work into my purchasing/licensing scheme and rely on that. Building layer upon layer of validation does nothing at all but prove that most of the layers do not work. Look, this is a simple thing to take care of. Assign each copy of windows a unique number and assign each point of sale a unique number. Then when you validate the product upon installation give the user a certificate that needs to be faxed in along with a copy of the receipt showing where it was purchased. Once that product code and purchase location code have been validated and stored along with the receipt you are DONE. If another person tries to register using that same product code but a different vendor code then THEY are the cheaters and deny them at that time.
-
led mike wrote:
just double click the .MSI file and everything would automagically work!
Well, it should by now. Microsoft has been working on the technology for freakin years.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001hmmm not sure anyone got my point. I quoted J.Dunlap statements about "switching to Linux" and I said "Right cause then (in Linux) you just double click the .MSI file....". In other words getting all that stuff to function in Linux is not going to be any easier than with the MS products.
-
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=84[^] Got this from an MS private NG. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)I am sure to get flamed for this but what the heck............... 1. Microsoft is a public entity, trading for capital gain - i.e. they want to make money and the more the merrier 2. Surely every public company that sells a product that is in demand is entitled to make as much out of their product as the market will allow? 3. If I sell a product (software hopefully) I want to get paid for this - this is what I do as a professional developer - surely I am entitled to secure my software to ensure that I get paid for it. I would love to sit around developing open source freeware that kicks ass and that I give away, but in my world I need to earn real money 4. What other alternatives to Windows as a general use, user-friendly OS are there in the world? Linux - be serious guys - not everyone is keen / capable / feels like going the distance in the corporate / small business world 5. If you don't want to own / licence (or whatever the EULA calls it ) the software, don't install it 6. If you want to install cracked / pirated / bootleg software, pay the consequences - MS has a right to protect their software 7. If you want free software, download Linux, tweak it, learn the man pages and puff your chest because you now "know" your OS inside out. 8. After playing get-to-know-your-OS, learn how to use Vi or emacs or whatever is the best - start dreaming in regex - it helps I have bills to pay and work to get done - on an MS OS I am happy to pay for using an IDE I am also happy to pay for (try working Ecplise for a while - it's free by the way ha ha) In short, if you are not happy with an MS OS and WGA, unistall it and return it (you will be refunded, it says so in the EULA - then download a free OS and ................... Flame away!
-
Jerry Hammond wrote:
Gee, I'm stumped why anyone would <snip> complain when the owner attempts in a unique (and possibly effective way) to bitch-slap those thieves.
Because Microsoft screws up. I know of a couple of people who have bought legitimate copies of Windows, and activation has failed because Microsoft told them it was pirated. Furthermore, I know the people who run the store they bought it from, and I know that they bought the copies legitimately from Microsoft.
Ryan
"Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"
-
Jerry Hammond wrote:
If you steal electricity from the power company and the company catches on you lose access to power and possibly go to jail. No one complains about that.
Damn right. What's with all these whiny computer users, anyway? If your neighbor stole power and the electric company mistakenly blamed you, cut off your power, and had you arrested, i think you might have a few choice words to say about it. But maybe not. And if not, well, i salute you sir, for reducing the amount of complaining being done... Oh, did i mention? The power company found out about the theft after you'd called in to complain about your unusually large bills. They just assumed you were to blame because your neighbor had also stolen your favorite monogrammed extension cord while he was sneaking around your tool shed looking for an out-of-the-way socket to tap. So, uh, yeah, in the end, the theft hurt you a whole lot more than it ever did the power Co. But you're a trooper, right? You can stand a little extra pain, expense, and time in the poky if it means that your neighbor will be forced to go to a little extra trouble next time he wants some free electricity. Hats off to you, i say...
---- Scripts i’ve known... CPhog 1.0.0.0 - make CP better. Forum Bookmark 0.2.5 - bookmark forum posts on Pensieve Print forum 0.1.2 - printer-friendly forums Expand all 1.0 - Expand all messages In-place Delete 1.0 - AJAX-style post delete Syntax 0.1 - Syntax highlighting for code blocks in the forums
-
I am sure to get flamed for this but what the heck............... 1. Microsoft is a public entity, trading for capital gain - i.e. they want to make money and the more the merrier 2. Surely every public company that sells a product that is in demand is entitled to make as much out of their product as the market will allow? 3. If I sell a product (software hopefully) I want to get paid for this - this is what I do as a professional developer - surely I am entitled to secure my software to ensure that I get paid for it. I would love to sit around developing open source freeware that kicks ass and that I give away, but in my world I need to earn real money 4. What other alternatives to Windows as a general use, user-friendly OS are there in the world? Linux - be serious guys - not everyone is keen / capable / feels like going the distance in the corporate / small business world 5. If you don't want to own / licence (or whatever the EULA calls it ) the software, don't install it 6. If you want to install cracked / pirated / bootleg software, pay the consequences - MS has a right to protect their software 7. If you want free software, download Linux, tweak it, learn the man pages and puff your chest because you now "know" your OS inside out. 8. After playing get-to-know-your-OS, learn how to use Vi or emacs or whatever is the best - start dreaming in regex - it helps I have bills to pay and work to get done - on an MS OS I am happy to pay for using an IDE I am also happy to pay for (try working Ecplise for a while - it's free by the way ha ha) In short, if you are not happy with an MS OS and WGA, unistall it and return it (you will be refunded, it says so in the EULA - then download a free OS and ................... Flame away!
A voice of reason in all the silliness posted in this thread. Of course judging by some of the other responses, you're post might have been taken more seriously if you used a silly analogy of some kind and mysterious references to "I know a guy who knows a guy that this happened to" etc etc. ;)
-
Actually, I don't think so. They still cost too much for what you get... I recently put a AMD64 3200 box together with mild graphics, 2gb RAM, 240gb of drive space, DVD writer, and a 17-inch LCD for less that $650. For another $150, I could have gone to a dual core 3800. That's 4 times the defaut drive space, and 4 times the memory as an entry-level Imac, and for roughly 1/2 the price. Assuming a Linux install (because we are, afterall, talking about alternatives to Windows), we remain at roughly 1/2 the price. Additionally, the PC is infinitely more upgradable than a Mac ever will be. Hell, you can only put 2gb of ram into those things, while a typical PC can hold four. Don't get me wrong. Macs are cute, hippies love 'em, and they're very "media" oriented, but if you want to get real work done, go with a PC.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001I've explained this many times before, but here's a short version... they are better built then your typical PC components. Although, I'm starting to wonder with the whole yellowing of the MacBooks. Anyway, that's the way it's always been.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Hell, you can only put 2gb of ram into those things, while a typical PC can hold four.
You need to do your homework young jedi. ;P The G5s can hold up to 16GB of RAM. Jeremy Falcon
-
A voice of reason in all the silliness posted in this thread. Of course judging by some of the other responses, you're post might have been taken more seriously if you used a silly analogy of some kind and mysterious references to "I know a guy who knows a guy that this happened to" etc etc. ;)
John Cardinal wrote:
A voice of reason in all the silliness posted in this thread.
$20 says you'd change your attitude if your corporate network went down because a few key machines suddenly stopped working thanks to MS and their new gizmo. Jeremy Falcon
-
:rolleyes: Wow, you sure are proving the assertion in the post you replied to about "otherwise intelligent people" That's going to great lengths to prove an assertion with a horrible analogy.
John Cardinal wrote:
That's going to great lengths to prove an assertion with a horrible analogy.
You really can't prove an assertion using an analogy based on a hypothetical scenario, since you can just make up anything and cherry-pick the details to make it seem like it's backing up your point. What, didn't i make that hypothetical sufficiently ridiculous? :rolleyes: And BTW: i maintain that any claims i might have to membership in the group of "otherwise intelligent people" (or its supergroup "intelligent people") are invalid, based only on the false impressions i inspire in people who don't know me very well... ;) :-O
---- Scripts i’ve known... CPhog 1.0.0.0 - make CP better. Forum Bookmark 0.2.5 - bookmark forum posts on Pensieve Print forum 0.1.2 - printer-friendly forums Expand all 1.0 - Expand all messages In-place Delete 1.0 - AJAX-style post delete Syntax 0.1 - Syntax highlighting for code blocks in the forums
-
I've explained this many times before, but here's a short version... they are better built then your typical PC components. Although, I'm starting to wonder with the whole yellowing of the MacBooks. Anyway, that's the way it's always been.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Hell, you can only put 2gb of ram into those things, while a typical PC can hold four.
You need to do your homework young jedi. ;P The G5s can hold up to 16GB of RAM. Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
they are better built then your typical PC components.
Oh you mean the same Macs with the over-heating problems, the fans that speed up on their own when the computer isn't being used, the fans that are just plain too loud, the LCD panels that suddenly stop working, or "super" drives that fail on an all-to-regular basis? Those same Macs? Oh yeah, I din't use ANY OEM parts in the system build-out I described above - all retail and all brand name. You can't hear that system over our ceiling fan running at it's lowest setting, and it's been powered on for three months straight with nary a problem.
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
The G5s can hold up to 16GB of RAM.
And start at $1995. The bang/bucks ratio diverges even faster at the top-end, and who here need, can afford or even justify 16gb of RAM? Time to come back down to earth younger jedi. :)
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
John Cardinal wrote:
A voice of reason in all the silliness posted in this thread.
$20 says you'd change your attitude if your corporate network went down because a few key machines suddenly stopped working thanks to MS and their new gizmo. Jeremy Falcon
In a prior job I was a network engineer to hundreds of different companies and I can say with at least some authority that the only time the machines suddenly stopped working was all due to user error, not upgrading hardware or software, doing stupid things etc etc. A well maintained and designed network with quality hardware *never* goes down. Of course there are those that could not afford that degree of protection and so they had various issues but they all came back down to the importance that the owners placed on their computer systems. And no I wouldn't change my attitude, I'm firmly on the side of Microsoft with this one. Anyone can agree they have made mistakes but this isn't one of them.
-
John Cardinal wrote:
That's going to great lengths to prove an assertion with a horrible analogy.
You really can't prove an assertion using an analogy based on a hypothetical scenario, since you can just make up anything and cherry-pick the details to make it seem like it's backing up your point. What, didn't i make that hypothetical sufficiently ridiculous? :rolleyes: And BTW: i maintain that any claims i might have to membership in the group of "otherwise intelligent people" (or its supergroup "intelligent people") are invalid, based only on the false impressions i inspire in people who don't know me very well... ;) :-O
---- Scripts i’ve known... CPhog 1.0.0.0 - make CP better. Forum Bookmark 0.2.5 - bookmark forum posts on Pensieve Print forum 0.1.2 - printer-friendly forums Expand all 1.0 - Expand all messages In-place Delete 1.0 - AJAX-style post delete Syntax 0.1 - Syntax highlighting for code blocks in the forums
-
John Cardinal wrote:
Heresay. Everyone seems to "know" someone who somehow was affected blah blah blah.
Are you accusing me of lying?
Ryan
"Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"
-
John Cardinal wrote:
Heresay. Everyone seems to "know" someone who somehow was affected blah blah blah.
Are you accusing me of lying?
Ryan
"Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"
I'm just saying you may have been misinformed or the person relating the information to you was mistaken or exaggerating for dramatic effect. I haven't heard of anyone directly who had a problem with activation other than the obvious problems of doing things that clearly will require a reactivation like trying to install it to more than one pc or changing certain hardware etc. If it was a simple change in hardware that caused a need for reactivation that's hardly microsoft acusing someone of piracy that's a normal part of the system and requires reactivation. If it was a case of the user installing windows on more than one pc, that's piracy. I'm not sure how either of those cases are to blame for Microsoft. It's like a lot of less knowlegeable computer users think they have a virus when they accidentally delete a document or their computer boots slower than they think it should. When they tell someone they have a virus that doesn't make them a liar, just misinformed. Most of the stuff I've seen that is critical of activation falls squarely into the realm of the slashdots of the world.
-
I'm just saying you may have been misinformed or the person relating the information to you was mistaken or exaggerating for dramatic effect. I haven't heard of anyone directly who had a problem with activation other than the obvious problems of doing things that clearly will require a reactivation like trying to install it to more than one pc or changing certain hardware etc. If it was a simple change in hardware that caused a need for reactivation that's hardly microsoft acusing someone of piracy that's a normal part of the system and requires reactivation. If it was a case of the user installing windows on more than one pc, that's piracy. I'm not sure how either of those cases are to blame for Microsoft. It's like a lot of less knowlegeable computer users think they have a virus when they accidentally delete a document or their computer boots slower than they think it should. When they tell someone they have a virus that doesn't make them a liar, just misinformed. Most of the stuff I've seen that is critical of activation falls squarely into the realm of the slashdots of the world.
John Cardinal wrote:
I'm just saying you may have been misinformed or the person relating the information to you was mistaken or exaggerating for dramatic effect.
No. They were both good friends and both times I actually went and looked at their computer for them. One was upgrading from Win98, (to XP Home) the other from WinME (to XP Pro). Both times the only solution was to call Microsoft and explain the situation.
John Cardinal wrote:
If it was a simple change in hardware that caused a need for reactivation that's hardly microsoft acusing someone of piracy that's a normal part of the system and requires reactivation. If it was a case of the user installing windows on more than one pc, that's piracy.
It was neither, both were fresh installs. Of course I've had people say complain about having to reactivate Windows when they upgrade their computer. If that was the situation I wouldn't have mentioned it! I'm not stupid. Thankfully, Microsoft are very good with their activation policies, and they will allow you to reactivate Windows if you can prove it's legitimate. However, I'm not in favour of some automated tool being able to decide that a particular installation of Windows can't be used any more without human intervention.
Ryan
"Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"
-
J. Dunlap wrote:
A number of people who wouldn't otherwise may seriously start considering a switch to Linux one of these days.
I hope so.
-
Greeeg wrote:
J. Dunlap wrote: A number of people who wouldn't otherwise may seriously start considering a switch to Linux one of these days. I hope so.
It feels like I hear this all the time, yet it doesn't seem to happen...
Well I've already migrated my entire organization from MS Office to OpenOffice and people actually prefer it. At the same time we just saved close to $50,000 by not upgrading our license to MSO 2007. Other than Windows XP, the only other non open source or non freeware product installed is Symantec AntiVirus and believe me when I find a suitable alternative to that piece of crap it's going out the door too. I think Microsoft's downward spiral is finally beginning to gain some serious momentum. A fairly significant number of their talent has jumped ship already. And their strong arming of decades long customers with these fascist tactics is not going to help out a lot either. It's going to be quite a learning curve for me, with a lot of pain thrown in I'm sure, but I'm doing my best now to get comfortable with Eclipse and ditch Visual Studio as well. I had been a long time Microsoft supporter dating back to the days of DOS, but now I've pretty much had enough. Keep rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic if you please.. Regards, Dave
-
FTA:
- I have an XP Media center with a promise RAID 0 4-disc array. When I installed the WPA it broke the drivers for the array by causing failed delayed writes (half of the array just “disapears”.) If I do a system restore to before the installation of the WPA everything goes back to working just fine.
- [S]ince installing WPA … I’ve had blue screens and a total inability to boot. I had to run the XP repair function to get the computer to boot. I had a damaged boot sector on the hard drive. I am running two drives on a RAID 1 config.
- I purchased a SEALED OEM copy of XP Professional. WGA said the license key was already used. I called MS and they said I should uninstall and buy another copy. I told them I wasn’t made of money and hung-up.
- Microsoft rejected the product key that came with the ThinkPad I’m using. I had to call in and they gave me another code to enter which supposedly worked but now I get the blue screen of death about every other time I reboot. I’ve also lost all internet connectivity.
- I sent my Compaq Presario notebook for service repair, and it fails the WGA check. I have a legal version of windows xp professional on it. But I have no way to correct this problem.
X| Come on Microsoft!! A number of people who wouldn't otherwise may seriously start considering a switch to Linux one of these days.
