CP to rally behind MS?
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Martin Marvinski wrote: Just leave me and MS alone Why should M$ be left alone ? Why should they not be publically accountable ? Martin Marvinski wrote: Remember its you UNIX guys who are starting this antitrust Sh*t. Whatever do you mean ? As I've said, Linux installed PC's are for sale in the backwater where I live. People are buying them as a cheap web box, because they don't need office or games. I happen to think that Solaris is a nice OS, although not as slick as XP, for example, the truth is I am sick of XP, and I am sick of having my hand held, it actually makes it harder to do stuff. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. "I'm somewhat suspicious of STL though. My (test,experimental) program worked first time. Whats that all about??!?! - Jon Hulatt, 22/3/2002
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Christian Graus wrote: And arrogant people like you, talking this crap, are the reason so many people hate Americans. I understand your point, just please bear in mind we aren't all like this. There are always going to be pros and cons anywhere you go. While we do have screwed up laws, we also have freedom. It comes with a price, however. I do love my country and would rather be here than anywhere else. I, as most here, will speak of it with pride. I suppose some of us just don't have the gift of proper wording to ensure we don't come off as jerks. I'm sure Australia is a great place too. I've never been there, although I want to visit (Great Barrier Reef). Martin's low blow on Aussies was just about as formidable of a retaliation he could muster because he knew he had no point. Jeremy L. Falcon "The One Who Said, 'The One Who Said...'" Homepage : Feature Article : Sonork = 100.16311
I tried to make clear I was saying *some people* hate Americans. I certainly don't. That would make me racist, just like Martin seems to be. I think it's only natural to love where you live, assuming it's halfway decent. The line is crossed when you think other people must naturally wish they lived there too. But I think where-ever you go, most people are pretty decent, however there's always a few idiots in the mix as well. I'd love to visit the USA as well. The Great Barrier Reef is in the process of dying, I'd hurry if you want to see it, I really hope I can get my kids to see it before it is all dead and gone. Global warming I believe is the main thing killing it, but pollution is not helping. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. "I'm somewhat suspicious of STL though. My (test,experimental) program worked first time. Whats that all about??!?! - Jon Hulatt, 22/3/2002
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Martin Marvinski wrote: It makes me feel really bad to pick arguments with poor defenceless Aussies who don't know any better. OS/2 on the same level as MS's windows. If it were it would have succeeded. IBM had all the power, it invented the PC standard, it had all the money and clout in the industry, and if it wanted to it could have done what MS did. Wow - you ARE stupid. And racist to boot. beta is better than vhs. The better product does not always win. IBM lost largely because they gave Microsoft the head start, they did not expect the PC to succeed as a product. Martin Marvinski wrote: But what happened instead was that the best product won in the free market system of America. Nope. The most marketed product, and also the one that best tied people into using it. Martin Marvinski wrote: That of course was Windows, who made sure it was easy to use. you haven't even seen OS/2, have you ? Martin Marvinski wrote: Ease of use was the number one priority, even more than reliability back then. The folks at IBM included both for the price of one. It was reliable and also easy to use. Can anyone say 'pre-emtive multitasking', WAY before Windows did it ? I'm at work, so I'll have to leave it there. You are racist, ignorant and stupid. Get some help. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. "I'm somewhat suspicious of STL though. My (test,experimental) program worked first time. Whats that all about??!?! - Jon Hulatt, 22/3/2002
Christian Graus wrote: You are racist How am I a racist? Is Australian a race? Graus is now pulling the "race card" to win a debate. You just proved my point. I'm not going to debate with you any longer because you obviously can't handle it emotionally. I going to apologize for causing you grief. I'm sorry for arguing with you. Next time I'll keep the conversation on a lite topic. I made the same mistake with David Wulff, he remembered a commment from many months ago and to this day still holds a grudge against me.
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Martin Marvinski wrote: 1. They are jealous of our might Beware, every nation that has gone up has come down. Martin Marvinski wrote: 2. They are jealous of our intellect What intellect are you talking about here? Martin Marvinski wrote: 3. they are jealous of our economy It rides on middle-east oil (which is controlled by putting dictatorships in countries with intelligence support and getting cheap oil in return). Also, forces small developing countries to open up theie economy to the big companies in US. and whoever does it the American way becomes Argentina (fucked up by World Bank) Martin Marvinski wrote: 4. They are jealous of our educational system What is there to be so jealous of here? I am as good or better than most people who got their education in US and I got my education in a developing country - India. Martin Marvinski wrote: 5. They are jealous of our freedoms Ask for the most free country; it is India. You have the freedom to even drive on the opposite side of the road :). We also get to choose our respresntatives, so that they can go on and do whatever they want. We can also speak whatever we want. We can write whatever we want.. and we never needed to carry a gun and I believe it is better that way (or atleast the majority of Indians decided that it is better - it is legislated) Martin Marvinski wrote: 6. They are jealous of all our things(every person has at least 2 cars, most own homes, ect. I am not. I lived in a small town without a car - because the public transport was better than anywhere in US I have seen. Atleast in Europe and my part of India, most people own homes. In poorer countries, they tend to give priority to public transport than promote western automobile manufacturers, because most of these countries were left illiterate and economically looted by the Western countries 50 years ago. As a democracy of illiterates, India has a longer development curve than a communist China or a US that had slaves when it became independent 300 years ago. Martin Marvinski wrote: 7. They are brainwashed by their leaders. Not more than you guys are. Martin Marvinski wrote: 8. They are jealous of our inovations( we invented the airplane, tv, radio, computer, we sent men to the moon) Please note that many people wh
Thomas George wrote: Please note that many people who came from other countries contributed to this and in their hearts, many of them are not American Those who come to America are Americans. America is a melting pot of cultures. We are a nation of imigrants.
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You know what we should do? We should start a campaign here at codeproject to help Microsoft in its antitrust fight by writing letters to our elected officals telling them to back off. Maybe Chris could get in touch with MS, and they could tell us who to contact and provide us with strategies and insight. I believe in fair competion and I think what Oracle and Sun are doing is just wrong. Also, Chris could set up a forum here where we could discuss ways to prevent Oracle and Sun from harming our livelyhoods. Remember they are attacking us, as well as Microsoft with their sneaky tactics. MS has the most developers. What happens to the economy when we loose our jobs thanks to the states? We need to be more vocal in our support of Microsoft.
You're assuming we're all on the same page on this. I'm rooting for the states. Not that I wish Sun And Oracle anything positive. I just wish MS didn't keep screwing us over with its ham-handed technical "innovations" at the cost of reliability, stability, and usability. GDI+ is the only positive thing I've seen out of Redmond since Win95.
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You are displaying all the symptoms of someone who is jealous. I would feel bad if I lived in anouther country, so I can't critisize you too harshly. You have to take the defensive position because it would crush you emotionally if you accepted your lot in life, and that you aren't a part of the world's greatest superpower. There is a study that suggests that the middle easterners are jealous of our success, and our participation in the world makes them feel that we are rubbing it in their faces. That is why they hate us. Christian Graus wrote: Most of it imported. Get a life buddy. You're fooling yourself. The home of soap operas leads the world when it comes to intelligence ? Then how come no other country can rival us? If there was so much talent elsewhere, wouldn't someone eventually come up and beat us in our High tech endeavours. We are light years ahead in Computer Science. Our military technology is generations ahead of the Europeans. I would feel bad if I lived in a second world country too. Why don't you apply for a Visa or Greencard and try to come over here? Or else improve your country. Just don't become green with envy. BTW Microsoft, IBM and SUN are all our companies. I take offense at your critisizing how we do buisness. What has Australia done in the computing world? Where is the Australian equivilant of MS? Or IBM?
Martin Marvinski wrote: I would feel bad if I lived in anouther country, so I can't critisize you too harshly. The fact that Australia is made up of different races does not mean that thinking that America is the only place worth living is racist. Even if you remove that tag because of it's emotional value, it's still pig ignorant, that's for sure Martin Marvinski wrote: There is a study that suggests that the middle easterners are jealous of our success, and our participation in the world makes them feel that we are rubbing it in their faces. That is why they hate us. A study can prove whatever you want it to. Martin Marvinski wrote: Then how come no other country can rival us? I don't know how to argue points like this ( which are untrue ) without appearing as ignorant as you and risking offending my many American friends here, none of whom are as ignorant as you are. You'll note your countrymen are not rallying to your defence. What does that tell you ? Let's leave it at that - you're a narrow minded bigot and I'd rather we did not speak about this again. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. "I'm somewhat suspicious of STL though. My (test,experimental) program worked first time. Whats that all about??!?! - Jon Hulatt, 22/3/2002
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I used Solaris on Sun Netra mechines and there is nothing you have to learn. The same point and click interface. Double-click on the CD-ROM icon, the CD mounts and displays exactly as a Windows machine would. What makes Unix have a steep learning curve? What are the situations where the steep learning curve comes into play? All we do in Windows, whenever something goes wrong very bad, is re-install. Works for any OS or program. I upgraded Solaris on the same machine later and it was the smoothest OS installation I have ever done (has to do with the fact that OS and the machine are made by the same company - no incompatibilities) To use the internet, I used Netscape. The ethernet interfaces were pre-configured (drivers installed) and all that had to be done was to plug it in and provide an IP address. I am certain that it supports DHCP too. But, Sun was never a desktop machine. This is an entry level server and was amazingly user-friendly. If someone tells me that they can figure out Windows, Solaris or Mac faster than the other - if they had seen none of them befire -- it is just crap. Linux was difficult to use - because 1. It was not commercialized and people whom it targetted were power users and programmers 2. Until recently, no emphasis was given to GUI and it had only a very bad X implementation. 3. And when they started on making better UIs, there was duplication of effort with KDE and GNOME. But, I maintain that Solaris is as usable as any version of Windows -- atleast for me. But, it is not targetted at a home user. Recently, I saw a Sun server machine with 1 GB of RAM and 2 40 GB drives for 2200 dollars with Solaris. If my servers ran on Solaris, I would certainly buy them in favour of PC servers. Even the price factor does not hold. SCO Unix was also very user friendly - easy to install and do nothing to maintain. I believe that there is a mental block against Unix, which I also had for some time. I must admit that it was 'not my opinion', but an acquired opinion from others (without really seeing what it is). Thomas
I have to disagree with you. Unix and Linux are mainly industrial strenght tools for professionals. I use Linux internally, and most things are done best with a command prompt. *nix was designed to enterprise level performance and stability and therefore has the easy of use trade off. Thomas George wrote: What makes Unix have a steep learning curve? 1.The file system. Imagine someone confronted with that. They would have to go to pathname.com to figure it out. 2. Most things are still installed and configured with .conf files, and you have to compile the programs yourself sometimes! The list goes on and on. Believe me, I'm not against Unix, but it has no place on the desktop of the average user.
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Read the previous thread. I have. It has no bearing on the point that I made. Oracle and Sun bribed the Government to go after MS. You have evidence of this? Or do you just invent "facts" when you feel the need to bolster your arguments. Did they also bribe the various courts? Or was that the work of the occupants of recently landed UFOs? You can start your own company this very day in the US and sell what ever you want. That doesn't mean MS has to give you a discount though. Let's see if I have this right. The fact that people are allowed to start their own company means that Microsoft should be allowed to break the law with impunity? Is that your position? John Carson
John Carson wrote: Let's see if I have this right. The fact that people are allowed to start their own company means that Microsoft should be allowed to break the law with impunity? Is that your position? Fine. You got me. You proved your point, and I folded like a house of cards. I also made an ass of myself, and I'm sorry to all those who I've offended. You are right and I'm wrong. My unilaterism, and evangelism has made me public enemy number one on this site, and for this I'm sorry. I also apologise to all the Australians, especially Christian Graus, whom I've offended, and take back all my negative and hurtful remarks. I also apologise to the British, among them, David Wulff, of whom I made a horrible comment on his moral character. I am also not going to post any longer so I don't bring up bad memories, and am just going to browse. I obviously don't know how to handle myself in public, and therefore not post until I can be decent.
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Jamie Hale wrote: This is utter crap. Perhaps you and I "instinctively" know what to do, but I've spent many hours pulling my hair out trying to explain/demonstrate a doubleclick. I don't belive this. Any eight year old can figure Windows out. You turn it on, and then point and click. Jamie Hale wrote: Personally, I think PCs should be for CS grads and nerds like us Thats the attitude that SUN and Oracle have. Thats why they have to resort to lawsuits. Jamie Hale wrote: I've moved to a geek platform. I code for Windows to pay the bills - I code for Linux because I'm cool.) Don't get me wrong. I use Linux internally for a mail server, web server, and as a LDAP server. But I also use SQL Server. I run a consulting buisness, and many times I put Linux on the client's servers(I bid for most jobs, and if I save on license fees, its more money for me), but I *always* make sure Windows is on the desktop. Jamie Hale wrote: And I think it's up to MS and others to come up with a truly "instinctive" machine for the general population. Windows most definitely is NOT for everyone. MS did that with "BOB". No one bought it because it insulted their intelligence.
Martin Marvinski wrote: Any eight year old can figure Windows out. You turn it on, and then point and click. And immediately be greeted by an utterly meaningless error message! Bull. I've got 60+ educated, adult users who can't figure out how to do anything by themselves on a Windows machine without calling me to do it for them. And they've been using Windows for years. There is absolutely nothing insinctive about it - without a predisposition to technical knowledge, a user is helpless on any machine. Windows just gives one pretty icons to stare at in dazed confusion.
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Jamie Hale wrote: This is utter crap. Perhaps you and I "instinctively" know what to do, but I've spent many hours pulling my hair out trying to explain/demonstrate a doubleclick. I don't belive this. Any eight year old can figure Windows out. You turn it on, and then point and click. Jamie Hale wrote: Personally, I think PCs should be for CS grads and nerds like us Thats the attitude that SUN and Oracle have. Thats why they have to resort to lawsuits. Jamie Hale wrote: I've moved to a geek platform. I code for Windows to pay the bills - I code for Linux because I'm cool.) Don't get me wrong. I use Linux internally for a mail server, web server, and as a LDAP server. But I also use SQL Server. I run a consulting buisness, and many times I put Linux on the client's servers(I bid for most jobs, and if I save on license fees, its more money for me), but I *always* make sure Windows is on the desktop. Jamie Hale wrote: And I think it's up to MS and others to come up with a truly "instinctive" machine for the general population. Windows most definitely is NOT for everyone. MS did that with "BOB". No one bought it because it insulted their intelligence.
Martin Marvinski wrote: I don't belive this. Any eight year old can figure Windows out. You turn it on, and then point and click. Sure, and I know 18-25 year olds in a college course that can't comprehend a double click. Martin Marvinski wrote: Thats the attitude that SUN and Oracle have. Thats why they have to resort to lawsuits. And Microsoft has never used the court system?
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I thought it was Microsoft helping IBM develop OS/2 [http://www.os2bbs.com/os2news/OS2Warp.html\]. Microsoft decided that OS/2 wasn't going to take off and devoted more time to Windows. Kinda like what they did with helping Sega develop the Dreamcast, only to come out with the Xbox later.
IBM practically wrote Windows 3.x. OS/2 used that as it code base, and it will run any Windows 3.1 application. MS used a lot of what was worked on for themselves. It was a joint project, but MS backed out when the opportunity arose for them to claim stake on there own. If you think about it, it's obvious. Windows XP is finally the Windows MS wanted (their words). Remember the 60K+ bugs in Win2K, and that it was released way later than promised? AFAIK MS didn't have anyone else helping them that time. The whole 9x series is just over glorified updates. As far as the Sega issue. Sega was going out of business in the US marketplace. They failed to make any of their SDKs in English. The developers that didn't know Japanese (like me) found it hard to learn it. Therefore, the homemade games were few. MS bought a good chunk of Sega to keep them here. Now they own a piece of yet another company. Can you guess why Sega no longer produces consoles? Simple, MS wants Sega making games for the Microsoft Xbox and not the Sega Dreamcast. They "claimed" it was just Sega going back to what it does best. Jeremy L. Falcon "The One Who Said, 'The One Who Said...'" Homepage : Feature Article : Sonork = 100.16311
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: but that's just it, most consumers didn't know what they wanted because they didn't know squat about computers when they first got theirs. If Linux was on that computer they would have returned it!!! They would have turned it on and stared at a command prompt and or a GUI. They may even type some documents and then hit the power button(of course when they turned it back on they lost all their data becuase they didn't do "shutdown -h now"! Windows succeeded because MS does usability tests. No one else did this back then!! When you get a computer with MS Windows, you instinctively know what to do!!! Thats why it succeeded.
Martin Marvinski wrote: If Linux was on that computer they would have returned it!!! They would have turned it on and stared at a command prompt and or a GUI. The difference between the Windows GUI and the KDE GUI is what? They both work in much the same way. And exactly which Newbie Type Linux programs require a command line? Open/StarOffice? Mozilla? Last time I looked, the RPM files were point and click installs. I will admit that Linux is not quite the everyday desktop tool, but there was a time that the MS operating system used a prompt, it was called MS-DOS. Martin Marvinski wrote: They may even type some documents and then hit the power button(of course when they turned it back on they lost all their data becuase they didn't do "shutdown -h now"! Last time I flicked off the power switch on my Windows box, I lost pretty much the whole works. Usability is using the "Start" button to "Stop" the computer? I have not used "shutdown -h now" in the longest time because the KDE button has a "Shutdown" command. Show me the difference?????? Research your facts before you spread the BS.
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Chris Losinger wrote: they did not. they marketed better than everyone else If the average person couldn't use Windows becuase it was too complicated, then it wouldn't sell no matter how much it was marketed(word of mouth). If the consumer can't figure out how to do basic things they can't use it!!! They shouldn't be expected to have a CS degree to check their email or type a document. BTW Apple's only problem was that they priced their products too high. Linux/Unix is only good for experienced Pros with CS degrees. Windows allows people who need computers but aren't programmers to do their work with a minimal learning curve.
Martin Marvinski wrote: Linux/Unix is only good for experienced Pros with CS degrees. Windows allows people who need computers but aren't programmers to do their work with a minimal learning curve. Where do you come up with this stuff? Have you ever used/installed/looked at a modern Linux distribution? I like MS stuff as much as the next guy, but come on, it is not something to worship. Take two new computers with new disk drives, one copy of Windows XP, and one copy of Mandrake Linux 8.2. Have a new user install the OS on both machines. They both boot from the CD, they both have GUI wizard installs. They both partition and format the drives. They both run almost un-attended. Try Linux with an open mind before you knock it, and give some specifics instances of problems. Until then, your comments are pretty baseless.
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I have to disagree with you. Unix and Linux are mainly industrial strenght tools for professionals. I use Linux internally, and most things are done best with a command prompt. *nix was designed to enterprise level performance and stability and therefore has the easy of use trade off. Thomas George wrote: What makes Unix have a steep learning curve? 1.The file system. Imagine someone confronted with that. They would have to go to pathname.com to figure it out. 2. Most things are still installed and configured with .conf files, and you have to compile the programs yourself sometimes! The list goes on and on. Believe me, I'm not against Unix, but it has no place on the desktop of the average user.
Martin Marvinski wrote: Thomas George wrote: What makes Unix have a steep learning curve? 1.The file system. Imagine someone confronted with that. They would have to go to pathname.com to figure it out. How is the file system different from the Windows file system? I think the drive letters make things more complicated. GUI file managers make this issue go away anyway. Martin Marvinski wrote: 2. Most things are still installed and configured with .conf files, and you have to compile the programs yourself sometimes! RPM, APT? Never heard of these?
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Martin Marvinski wrote: It makes me feel really bad to pick arguments with poor defenceless Aussies who don't know any better. OS/2 on the same level as MS's windows. If it were it would have succeeded. IBM had all the power, it invented the PC standard, it had all the money and clout in the industry, and if it wanted to it could have done what MS did. Wow - you ARE stupid. And racist to boot. beta is better than vhs. The better product does not always win. IBM lost largely because they gave Microsoft the head start, they did not expect the PC to succeed as a product. Martin Marvinski wrote: But what happened instead was that the best product won in the free market system of America. Nope. The most marketed product, and also the one that best tied people into using it. Martin Marvinski wrote: That of course was Windows, who made sure it was easy to use. you haven't even seen OS/2, have you ? Martin Marvinski wrote: Ease of use was the number one priority, even more than reliability back then. The folks at IBM included both for the price of one. It was reliable and also easy to use. Can anyone say 'pre-emtive multitasking', WAY before Windows did it ? I'm at work, so I'll have to leave it there. You are racist, ignorant and stupid. Get some help. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. "I'm somewhat suspicious of STL though. My (test,experimental) program worked first time. Whats that all about??!?! - Jon Hulatt, 22/3/2002
Christian, Please, stop feeding the trolls.:-D
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Read the previous thread. I have. It has no bearing on the point that I made. Oracle and Sun bribed the Government to go after MS. You have evidence of this? Or do you just invent "facts" when you feel the need to bolster your arguments. Did they also bribe the various courts? Or was that the work of the occupants of recently landed UFOs? You can start your own company this very day in the US and sell what ever you want. That doesn't mean MS has to give you a discount though. Let's see if I have this right. The fact that people are allowed to start their own company means that Microsoft should be allowed to break the law with impunity? Is that your position? John Carson
John Carson wrote: Oracle and Sun bribed the Government to go after MS. You have evidence of this? Or do you just invent "facts" when you feel the need to bolster your arguments. Did they also bribe the various courts? Or was that the work of the occupants of recently landed UFOs? ummm, Robert Novak said so??? Cause Microsoft has never contributed to campaigns.:laugh:
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You know what we should do? We should start a campaign here at codeproject to help Microsoft in its antitrust fight by writing letters to our elected officals telling them to back off. Maybe Chris could get in touch with MS, and they could tell us who to contact and provide us with strategies and insight. I believe in fair competion and I think what Oracle and Sun are doing is just wrong. Also, Chris could set up a forum here where we could discuss ways to prevent Oracle and Sun from harming our livelyhoods. Remember they are attacking us, as well as Microsoft with their sneaky tactics. MS has the most developers. What happens to the economy when we loose our jobs thanks to the states? We need to be more vocal in our support of Microsoft.
Subject says it all.
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Christian, Please, stop feeding the trolls.:-D
Shawn Horton wrote: Please, stop feeding the trolls. you'd think I'd learn, but I just can't help myself.... Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. "I'm somewhat suspicious of STL though. My (test,experimental) program worked first time. Whats that all about??!?! - Jon Hulatt, 22/3/2002
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Martin Marvinski wrote: Thomas George wrote: What makes Unix have a steep learning curve? 1.The file system. Imagine someone confronted with that. They would have to go to pathname.com to figure it out. How is the file system different from the Windows file system? I think the drive letters make things more complicated. GUI file managers make this issue go away anyway. Martin Marvinski wrote: 2. Most things are still installed and configured with .conf files, and you have to compile the programs yourself sometimes! RPM, APT? Never heard of these?
Even FreeBSD has pkg_add and pkg_delete commands for easy installation and maintenance of software. Jeremy L. Falcon "The One Who Said, 'The One Who Said...'" Homepage : Feature Article : Sonork = 100.16311
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Martin Marvinski wrote: I would feel bad if I lived in anouther country, so I can't critisize you too harshly. The fact that Australia is made up of different races does not mean that thinking that America is the only place worth living is racist. Even if you remove that tag because of it's emotional value, it's still pig ignorant, that's for sure Martin Marvinski wrote: There is a study that suggests that the middle easterners are jealous of our success, and our participation in the world makes them feel that we are rubbing it in their faces. That is why they hate us. A study can prove whatever you want it to. Martin Marvinski wrote: Then how come no other country can rival us? I don't know how to argue points like this ( which are untrue ) without appearing as ignorant as you and risking offending my many American friends here, none of whom are as ignorant as you are. You'll note your countrymen are not rallying to your defence. What does that tell you ? Let's leave it at that - you're a narrow minded bigot and I'd rather we did not speak about this again. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. "I'm somewhat suspicious of STL though. My (test,experimental) program worked first time. Whats that all about??!?! - Jon Hulatt, 22/3/2002
Christian Graus wrote: The fact that Australia is made up of different races does not mean that thinking that America is the only place worth living is racist. Where did you come up with that? I never said Australia is bad becuase there are many different races living there. America is the most diverse place in the world!! Australia is not as developed as the US, thats all. I can only name one Austrailian city, and thats Sydney. We have NY City, Boston, Philedelphia, Atlanta, Seatle, Austin, Huston, LA, San Fransico, Chicago. Australia has the Outback, and Sydney which is about all that your country is known for here in the States(Maybe your cultured pearls also). The reason I don't think Australia is all that great is becuase they don't have inovation and industry, like we have in the US. At least you have alot of inexpensive land(Be greatful for that)!! BTW have you traveled outside the Continent? Ask Chris about Seattle, he'll tell you how nice it is. Anyway, to sum it up, Australia is not bad becuase of the "different races", we have the most diversity here than anywhere else in the world!!! Thats one of the reasons we are #1 in almost all we do.