A cartoon
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Very well put. Problem is it won't matter what Israel does the anti-Semites will always find fault. Yes, they'll deny it and say they're not anti-Semitic, just anti-Israel so we won't be offended by their ignorance. Nothing will ever change so we're wasting our breath and energy to try to persaude people whose minds are closed. It might be better (for whatever reason) in the US but Europe is now and always has been rife with anti-semitism and as Europe slides inexroably towards becoming a muslim state it will only get worse. The strange thing is I think most people see it but no one will do anything about it. Now, fat_punk, that is bizarre and it's happening now.
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bookmarks You can ignore relatives but the neighbours live next doorSo, Europe is chronically anti-semitic (before anyone answers look up the definition of chronic). But our opinions do not affect the actions of Israel, which have been and now are boardering on, the criminal. And stupid. So a lion has big teeth and sharp claws. Dont goad him, understand and manipulate him, but no, the US/Israeli frontal assult mentality wont alow for that. They've gotta be butch they've gotta be macho about it. So they keep on digging the hole deeper and deeper, and get in more and more shit. Well, welcome to your shit pit, I for one am not going to climb in it with anyone.
Tronché pas ma miche!
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That's not what I said. In my experience of all the people I have met or spoken to that have expressed an anti-Israel stance in circumstances such as those that Israel now finds herself in have also been anti-Semitic in tone as the conversation/discussion goes on or gets a little heated. Many people are unable to see Israel as a discreet political entity populated by Jews, Christains, Muslims, atheists, etc, etc. They just see her as the Jewish state, populated and run by Jews who also run the rest of the world, epecially the US or the UK, blah, blah, etc, etc. It's a fact of life. If you are not a Jew you will never have heard or suffered this in the same way. Much like I can never truly understand the prejudice that black people have suffered.
viaduct wrote:
Do you want Israel to have carte blanche to do whatever they like against their neighbours
Why not? Syria and Iran and the rest of the world appear to be giving that to Hamas and Hexzbollah by their inaction and cowardice and if Israel doesn't finish the job it'll go on and on and draw in other countries. Do you want that? No? Then stand up for freedom and self-determination and say no to terrorism, say no to missiles into cities, to kidnappings, murder, suicide bombers, blown up trains and night clubs and passenger planes. Stand up for a country that is pretty much fighting a battle for all of us on their own.
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bookmarks You can ignore relatives but the neighbours live next doordigital man wrote:
viaduct wrote: Do you want Israel to have carte blanche to do whatever they like against their neighbours Why not?
If we who consider ourselves civilised do the same as those we consider terrorists, what does that say about us? Of course countries need to defend themselves, but with moderation. Blowing up a UN post with a precision guided missile after they had contacted you TEN TIMES asking you to stop shelling them isn't going to win Israel many friends, is it? Israel's disproportionate response here risks making life in Israel far less safe by making it easier for Hamas, Hezbollah etc to recruit suicide bombers and other terrorists (as in Iraq).
"He's got a lot on his mind, and it's not a load-bearing structure." - John Weak
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Hmm, actually, a German bomber accidentally dropped its load on a British city. The British then targeted German civilians on purpose, esallating the situation, so I am affraid that we started it (I am British)
Tronché pas ma miche!
Aye, the whole early phase of the war the Germans were going easy on us, figuring (very reasonably) that we would sign an armistice. Good job we had that war mongering asshole Churchill.. -- modified at 10:44 Wednesday 26th July, 2006
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that explains the difference[^] The thread below by fat_kid is rife with pissing and moaning about what Israel is doing in self defense. The complaints about civilian deaths are a by product of the way the ***heads choose to fight. They obviously have no respect for life: putting civilians at risk for their own protection, storing rockets in homes, etc. Fuck'em. The problem wouldn't exist had they simply stayed on the other side of the border. Yes, the Bush administration has no doubt given Israel the green light - and that is a good thing as long as they carry through and eliminate the vermin.
Mike Dear NYT - the fact is, the founding fathers hung traitors. dennisd45 wrote: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced
Mike Gaskey wrote:
Yes, the Bush administration has no doubt given Israel the green light
Yeah, right. Like we would do something substantial to stop them.
"I'm happier than a tornado in a trailer park"--Cars
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Which is correct, the first option, the second option, neither option, or both options.
I'm gonna puke
My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking"
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That's not what I said. In my experience of all the people I have met or spoken to that have expressed an anti-Israel stance in circumstances such as those that Israel now finds herself in have also been anti-Semitic in tone as the conversation/discussion goes on or gets a little heated. Many people are unable to see Israel as a discreet political entity populated by Jews, Christains, Muslims, atheists, etc, etc. They just see her as the Jewish state, populated and run by Jews who also run the rest of the world, epecially the US or the UK, blah, blah, etc, etc. It's a fact of life. If you are not a Jew you will never have heard or suffered this in the same way. Much like I can never truly understand the prejudice that black people have suffered.
viaduct wrote:
Do you want Israel to have carte blanche to do whatever they like against their neighbours
Why not? Syria and Iran and the rest of the world appear to be giving that to Hamas and Hexzbollah by their inaction and cowardice and if Israel doesn't finish the job it'll go on and on and draw in other countries. Do you want that? No? Then stand up for freedom and self-determination and say no to terrorism, say no to missiles into cities, to kidnappings, murder, suicide bombers, blown up trains and night clubs and passenger planes. Stand up for a country that is pretty much fighting a battle for all of us on their own.
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bookmarks You can ignore relatives but the neighbours live next doordigital man wrote:
Why not?
Because we are a better, more advance, more intelligent society, and it is beneath us to behave in the same way as these terrorist scum. A chap I knew was a Major in the 70's in N Ireland. British Intelligence knew every member of the IRA. Anytimne they could have gone in and picked them all up and shot the lot of them. He stated though that not only must British Justice be done, but that British Justice must be seen to be done. That is how we hold our heads up in the world, and set standards that we expect the rest of the world to aspire to.
Tronché pas ma miche!
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viaduct wrote:
I just hope that people you love are never those innocent civilians
So do I. Fortunantly for my children, they live in a civilized nation that doesn't let itself become overrun with evil, murderous madmen.
Thank God for disproportional force.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Fortunantly for my children, they live in a civilized nation
Precisely - it's easy to say that it's fine to gun down innocent civilians when there is no chance of it happening to you.
"He's got a lot on his mind, and it's not a load-bearing structure." - John Weak
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ihoecken wrote:
Germany didn't had any resources left
Because we had been bombing them. By your reasoning, he would have just hidden all his resources behind civilians and kept them perfectly safe.
Thank God for disproportional force.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Because we had been bombing them. By your reasoning, he would have just hidden all his resources behind civilians and kept them perfectly safe.
Which resources? Germany didn't had any more soldiers (they recruited 15 year old boys), no fuel, no steel, etc. The most factories weren't destroyed. They had build them deep under the mountains in KZs etc. The whole production were inefficient even before the bombing started. Regards, Ingo
------------------------------ PROST Roleplaying Game War doesn't determine who's right. War determines who's left.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Fortunantly for my children, they live in a civilized nation
Precisely - it's easy to say that it's fine to gun down innocent civilians when there is no chance of it happening to you.
"He's got a lot on his mind, and it's not a load-bearing structure." - John Weak
viaduct wrote:
Precisely - it's easy to say that it's fine to gun down innocent civilians when there is no chance of it happening to you.
Which is precisely why I want the bad guys defeated over there - so that there is no chance of it happening to me. It is precisely the willingness to do that which is the reason I live in a nation free from such evil.
Thank God for disproportional force.
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>>If you are going to defeat the bad guys, you are going to have to go through the innocent civilians to get to them. I do not agree, it is not the same kind of beast they are fighting. Killing civilians in ww2 did not produce terrorists. Nor did germany have that many allies in the end to aid them. Palestina might possibly have the entire arab world on their side.
Roger J wrote:
Killing civilians in ww2 did not produce terrorists.
If we had proven ourselves susceptible to terrorist tactics it certainly would have.
Thank God for disproportional force.
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fat_boy wrote:
I got 4.6 off 12 votes, you got 2.8 off 14.
That's your problem. You care too much what everyone else thinks. I'm sure if you polled Germany in the late 30's they would have been for at least expelling the Jews. Does that make it right?
My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking"
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So, Europe is chronically anti-semitic (before anyone answers look up the definition of chronic). But our opinions do not affect the actions of Israel, which have been and now are boardering on, the criminal. And stupid. So a lion has big teeth and sharp claws. Dont goad him, understand and manipulate him, but no, the US/Israeli frontal assult mentality wont alow for that. They've gotta be butch they've gotta be macho about it. So they keep on digging the hole deeper and deeper, and get in more and more shit. Well, welcome to your shit pit, I for one am not going to climb in it with anyone.
Tronché pas ma miche!
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An eye for an eye for an eye. Lovely. :)
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Because we had been bombing them. By your reasoning, he would have just hidden all his resources behind civilians and kept them perfectly safe.
Which resources? Germany didn't had any more soldiers (they recruited 15 year old boys), no fuel, no steel, etc. The most factories weren't destroyed. They had build them deep under the mountains in KZs etc. The whole production were inefficient even before the bombing started. Regards, Ingo
------------------------------ PROST Roleplaying Game War doesn't determine who's right. War determines who's left.
ihoecken wrote:
Which resources? Germany didn't had any more soldiers (they recruited 15 year old boys), no fuel, no steel, etc. The most factories weren't destroyed. They had build them deep under the mountains in KZs etc. The whole production were inefficient even before the bombing started.
Good God, are you really that fucking dense?!!!
Thank God for disproportional force.
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kgaddy wrote:
You care too much what everyone else thinks
You are accusing fat_boy of caring what people think? Ha ha, ha ah, hahahahaha, my god, do you read the offensive crap I post? Do you think I care?
Tronché pas ma miche!
fat_boy wrote:
You are accusing fat_boy of caring what people think?
yes:
fat_boy wrote:
I got 4.6 off 12 votes, you got 2.8 off 14. The world does not agree with you.
and by the way - I actually don't care.
Mike Dear NYT - the fact is, the founding fathers hung traitors. dennisd45 wrote: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced
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It just goes to show how insidious the Soapbox is: I've now spent so much time on here today that I'll probably have to work late to catch up. And, therefore, please feel free to take that honour for yourself. I have just got to do some work! (Stoopid NHibernate/HQL).
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bookmarks You can ignore relatives but the neighbours live next door -
fat_boy wrote:
You are accusing fat_boy of caring what people think?
yes:
fat_boy wrote:
I got 4.6 off 12 votes, you got 2.8 off 14. The world does not agree with you.
and by the way - I actually don't care.
Mike Dear NYT - the fact is, the founding fathers hung traitors. dennisd45 wrote: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Or did you mean that the damage on the industry was low?
Yep. Stupid punctuation. Must remember the "I helped my uncle jack off a horse" example.
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
