A cartoon
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That's not what I said. In my experience of all the people I have met or spoken to that have expressed an anti-Israel stance in circumstances such as those that Israel now finds herself in have also been anti-Semitic in tone as the conversation/discussion goes on or gets a little heated. Many people are unable to see Israel as a discreet political entity populated by Jews, Christains, Muslims, atheists, etc, etc. They just see her as the Jewish state, populated and run by Jews who also run the rest of the world, epecially the US or the UK, blah, blah, etc, etc. It's a fact of life. If you are not a Jew you will never have heard or suffered this in the same way. Much like I can never truly understand the prejudice that black people have suffered.
viaduct wrote:
Do you want Israel to have carte blanche to do whatever they like against their neighbours
Why not? Syria and Iran and the rest of the world appear to be giving that to Hamas and Hexzbollah by their inaction and cowardice and if Israel doesn't finish the job it'll go on and on and draw in other countries. Do you want that? No? Then stand up for freedom and self-determination and say no to terrorism, say no to missiles into cities, to kidnappings, murder, suicide bombers, blown up trains and night clubs and passenger planes. Stand up for a country that is pretty much fighting a battle for all of us on their own.
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bookmarks You can ignore relatives but the neighbours live next doordigital man wrote:
Why not?
Because we are a better, more advance, more intelligent society, and it is beneath us to behave in the same way as these terrorist scum. A chap I knew was a Major in the 70's in N Ireland. British Intelligence knew every member of the IRA. Anytimne they could have gone in and picked them all up and shot the lot of them. He stated though that not only must British Justice be done, but that British Justice must be seen to be done. That is how we hold our heads up in the world, and set standards that we expect the rest of the world to aspire to.
Tronché pas ma miche!
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Fortunantly for my children, they live in a civilized nation
Precisely - it's easy to say that it's fine to gun down innocent civilians when there is no chance of it happening to you.
"He's got a lot on his mind, and it's not a load-bearing structure." - John Weak
viaduct wrote:
Precisely - it's easy to say that it's fine to gun down innocent civilians when there is no chance of it happening to you.
Which is precisely why I want the bad guys defeated over there - so that there is no chance of it happening to me. It is precisely the willingness to do that which is the reason I live in a nation free from such evil.
Thank God for disproportional force.
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>>If you are going to defeat the bad guys, you are going to have to go through the innocent civilians to get to them. I do not agree, it is not the same kind of beast they are fighting. Killing civilians in ww2 did not produce terrorists. Nor did germany have that many allies in the end to aid them. Palestina might possibly have the entire arab world on their side.
Roger J wrote:
Killing civilians in ww2 did not produce terrorists.
If we had proven ourselves susceptible to terrorist tactics it certainly would have.
Thank God for disproportional force.
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So, Europe is chronically anti-semitic (before anyone answers look up the definition of chronic). But our opinions do not affect the actions of Israel, which have been and now are boardering on, the criminal. And stupid. So a lion has big teeth and sharp claws. Dont goad him, understand and manipulate him, but no, the US/Israeli frontal assult mentality wont alow for that. They've gotta be butch they've gotta be macho about it. So they keep on digging the hole deeper and deeper, and get in more and more shit. Well, welcome to your shit pit, I for one am not going to climb in it with anyone.
Tronché pas ma miche!
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fat_boy wrote:
I got 4.6 off 12 votes, you got 2.8 off 14.
That's your problem. You care too much what everyone else thinks. I'm sure if you polled Germany in the late 30's they would have been for at least expelling the Jews. Does that make it right?
My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking"
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An eye for an eye for an eye. Lovely. :)
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Because we had been bombing them. By your reasoning, he would have just hidden all his resources behind civilians and kept them perfectly safe.
Which resources? Germany didn't had any more soldiers (they recruited 15 year old boys), no fuel, no steel, etc. The most factories weren't destroyed. They had build them deep under the mountains in KZs etc. The whole production were inefficient even before the bombing started. Regards, Ingo
------------------------------ PROST Roleplaying Game War doesn't determine who's right. War determines who's left.
ihoecken wrote:
Which resources? Germany didn't had any more soldiers (they recruited 15 year old boys), no fuel, no steel, etc. The most factories weren't destroyed. They had build them deep under the mountains in KZs etc. The whole production were inefficient even before the bombing started.
Good God, are you really that fucking dense?!!!
Thank God for disproportional force.
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It just goes to show how insidious the Soapbox is: I've now spent so much time on here today that I'll probably have to work late to catch up. And, therefore, please feel free to take that honour for yourself. I have just got to do some work! (Stoopid NHibernate/HQL).
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bookmarks You can ignore relatives but the neighbours live next door -
kgaddy wrote:
You care too much what everyone else thinks
You are accusing fat_boy of caring what people think? Ha ha, ha ah, hahahahaha, my god, do you read the offensive crap I post? Do you think I care?
Tronché pas ma miche!
fat_boy wrote:
You are accusing fat_boy of caring what people think?
yes:
fat_boy wrote:
I got 4.6 off 12 votes, you got 2.8 off 14. The world does not agree with you.
and by the way - I actually don't care.
Mike Dear NYT - the fact is, the founding fathers hung traitors. dennisd45 wrote: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced
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fat_boy wrote:
You are accusing fat_boy of caring what people think?
yes:
fat_boy wrote:
I got 4.6 off 12 votes, you got 2.8 off 14. The world does not agree with you.
and by the way - I actually don't care.
Mike Dear NYT - the fact is, the founding fathers hung traitors. dennisd45 wrote: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Or did you mean that the damage on the industry was low?
Yep. Stupid punctuation. Must remember the "I helped my uncle jack off a horse" example.
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
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viaduct wrote:
Precisely - it's easy to say that it's fine to gun down innocent civilians when there is no chance of it happening to you.
Which is precisely why I want the bad guys defeated over there - so that there is no chance of it happening to me. It is precisely the willingness to do that which is the reason I live in a nation free from such evil.
Thank God for disproportional force.
Stan Shannon wrote:
t is precisely the willingness to do that which is the reason I live in a nation free from such evil.
Of course you do, there have never been any terrorist acts within the US, have there?
"He's got a lot on his mind, and it's not a load-bearing structure." - John Weak
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ihoecken wrote:
Which resources? Germany didn't had any more soldiers (they recruited 15 year old boys), no fuel, no steel, etc. The most factories weren't destroyed. They had build them deep under the mountains in KZs etc. The whole production were inefficient even before the bombing started.
Good God, are you really that fucking dense?!!!
Thank God for disproportional force.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Good God, are you really that f****ing dense?!!!
You seem to have very good arguements. You can look it up, it's the truth. Germany had no own resources and after Britain and the US get the control over the sea, it wasn't possible to get any further resources. Most German tanks where destroyed by German soldiers, because there was no fuel. Germany had many plane but they couldn't start them because there was no fuel and the most planes built had no engine, because those were build by prisoners and so they didn't functioned. The same was with amo. Those are facts, you can close your eyes, but it's the truth. Regards, Ingo
------------------------------ PROST Roleplaying Game War doesn't determine who's right. War determines who's left.
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Roger J wrote:
and firing at those f***ers is so much more brave and respectful to life when you know you are going to hit civilians at the same time?
it it collateral damage by design on the part of the ***heads. Unless the news media is wrong, Israel warns in advance. But here's the important piece, when you're fighting for survival no one else is important. So, if for example you stood surrounded by your family and pointed a gun at me, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot no matter who was in the way.
Mike Dear NYT - the fact is, the founding fathers hung traitors. dennisd45 wrote: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced
Mike Gaskey wrote:
for example you stood surrounded by your family and pointed a gun at me, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot no matter who was in the way.
Ouch - really scarey stuff - i dont imagine you'd have much of a problem pressing the 'ol 'red button' either. Red button aside, im not sure i would behave any different but i certainly wouldnt say 'I wouldn't hesitate'. And the war isnt being fought on those types of terms. Its bombs being dropped on innocent ppls heads. Simple as. Yeah, sure, there dropping leaflets saying 'please leave, were about to desimate the area'. But if you believe thats an effective strategy, i fear, your fundemetally mistaken. I dont agree with the war, i do think its a gross over-reaction on israels part. But, i also dont think that israel should be expected to sit back and let anyone attack their citizens (nor should the lebanon or palastine for that matter - sounds like a stalemate, eh?). If they are really that bothered about it (which they clearly are), they should have tackled this problem with a small amount of honour/foresight and moved in a ground force to ram raid possible targets, not just drop tonnes of US bought ordinance on their heads. They'd still no-doubt piss off alot of ppl, but nothing like the problems there going to have now. Last count was 400 dead and 600,000 displaced! Firstly they'd better hope that entire families were knocked out as part of the 400 killed by 'misplaced' bombs else there clearly going to have another fierce wave of terror attacks (dont doubt that hezbollah are behind the scenes as we speak creating the next wave of bombers). And the displaced? How easy is it going to be now to turn them against israel? and lets face it... they were half way there anyways. Various other countries have had similar problems at some time or another and didnt resort to full scale air bombardments. Which, imo, is the easiest way to create hate on the ground. But as always israel (and the US and the UK - well, pretty much the whole of the west) is scared stiff of losing soldiers in combat. Maybe if we started commiting ground troops are a rule of thumb the politicians wouldnt be so flippant about starting these conflicts. This, unfortunatly, promises to escalate into much much more than it is currently...
"He who only hopes is forced to spend his life in the dark"
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Good God, are you really that f****ing dense?!!!
You seem to have very good arguements. You can look it up, it's the truth. Germany had no own resources and after Britain and the US get the control over the sea, it wasn't possible to get any further resources. Most German tanks where destroyed by German soldiers, because there was no fuel. Germany had many plane but they couldn't start them because there was no fuel and the most planes built had no engine, because those were build by prisoners and so they didn't functioned. The same was with amo. Those are facts, you can close your eyes, but it's the truth. Regards, Ingo
------------------------------ PROST Roleplaying Game War doesn't determine who's right. War determines who's left.
For fucks sake, the reason they didn't have any of that stuff is because we were bombing the crap out of them. Do you think if we had committed ourselves to a policy of never harming civilianz that Hitler would have hesitated to put all of his resources squarely behind civilians?
Thank God for disproportional force.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
t is precisely the willingness to do that which is the reason I live in a nation free from such evil.
Of course you do, there have never been any terrorist acts within the US, have there?
"He's got a lot on his mind, and it's not a load-bearing structure." - John Weak
None that went unpunished.
Thank God for disproportional force.
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
I don't see that from where I live.
I think fat_boy is right in that point. Which countries intercede for the Jews when Hitler started to hunt them? And attacks against Jews weren't a German only phenomenon before WW2 started. Jews had problems in many countries, the Nazis just increases suppression and then of course (and unfortunately) mass murder. And some other countries even followed Germany into the deliriousness of holocaust.
------------------------------ PROST Roleplaying Game War doesn't determine who's right. War determines who's left.
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Aye, the whole early phase of the war the Germans were going easy on us, figuring (very reasonably) that we would sign an armistice. Good job we had that war mongering asshole Churchill.. -- modified at 10:44 Wednesday 26th July, 2006
Ryan Roberts wrote:
asshole
Dont you mean arsehole? *gets ready for flames*
Ryan Roberts wrote:
Churchill
Churchill is one of the main reasons a vast mojority of europe isnt speaking german right now. I think a little kudos is in order - a waring PM when we clearly needed one.
"He who only hopes is forced to spend his life in the dark"
