Games in C# is it even Possible
-
Chona1171 wrote:
is it possible to create a good game in C# that can compete in the market?
Depends on what you mean by "good game" and which market you're talking about. If you mean, can I create Doom 3 in C# then probably not. But a good game doesn't necessarly need cutting edge 3D graphics and there is always a market for cheap, throwaway games for marketing gimicks and such.
-
I have been studying Information Systems programming for two years now, but have always been intrigued by games programming, now there is a campus opening in SA that offers C# 3D Games Programming using Direct X. Now this all sounds very cool since I am a great fan of Java and C# but does anyone know is it possible to create a good game in C# that can compete in the market?
Oliekrokenosterpikkelikkeastrysvoel
Chona1171 wrote:
a good game
Define "a good game". Tetris probably resulted in several million man hours of productivity lost. Marc
Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer -
Why ? C# can handle pointers and memory allocation, BTW.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
-
Chona1171 wrote:
a good game
Define "a good game". Tetris probably resulted in several million man hours of productivity lost. Marc
Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmerTrue but if I had a time machine I would go back 3 years before the invention of tetris and write my own version. Yea you get some people who still plays it so every now and then, but be honest if you have a killer PC and a copy of Elder Scrolls of Oblivion you wont be playing Tetris will you. I am talking about games that are selling now.
Oliekrokenosterpikkelikkeastrysvoel
-
Yes I understand that C# is suprisingly powerfull, but wouldnt other languages were you have to use pointers and handle memory allocation be way better?
Oliekrokenosterpikkelikkeastrysvoel
Well, if you want to do something like Half-Life2, Doom3 and that sort of thing, I think that C/C++ is probably faster, because you can use all the speed you can get. For slower games, puzzles, ... C# will be excellent. I guess you should expect some cool things there, but no real speed games.
I've found a living worth working for, but I haven't found work worth living for. :beer:
:jig: -
Well, if you want to do something like Half-Life2, Doom3 and that sort of thing, I think that C/C++ is probably faster, because you can use all the speed you can get. For slower games, puzzles, ... C# will be excellent. I guess you should expect some cool things there, but no real speed games.
I've found a living worth working for, but I haven't found work worth living for. :beer:
:jig:True, but mostly I am refering to the power capabilities of C#, because we have to admit 10 years ago I never thought be would have the type of hardware we have today running at these speeds. Remember the good al days where it took bout 3 mins to boot win98? But anyways I was just curious, cos processing power would not be a problem in the future for whatever game you write in C#.
Oliekrokenosterpikkelikkeastrysvoel
-
Yea there is pointers in C# but memory allocation, I am used to java and as far as I know freeing up C# memory allocation works like java, calling the Garbage Collectors
Oliekrokenosterpikkelikkeastrysvoel
C# memory is allocated via a garbage collector, this is true. I don't see that as a big problem. The sort of resources a game is likely to use a lot of are stuff you'd control disposal of via IDisposable, anyhow.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
-
True but if I had a time machine I would go back 3 years before the invention of tetris and write my own version. Yea you get some people who still plays it so every now and then, but be honest if you have a killer PC and a copy of Elder Scrolls of Oblivion you wont be playing Tetris will you. I am talking about games that are selling now.
Oliekrokenosterpikkelikkeastrysvoel
Chona1171 wrote:
but be honest if you have a killer PC and a copy of Elder Scrolls of Oblivion you wont be playing Tetris will you.
Sure I will. Tetris is a great 5 minute break diversion. It's free, it's easy to use, and it doesn't require a killer PC.
Chona1171 wrote:
I am talking about games that are selling now.
I honestly don't think a killer game requires a 256MB Radion Ultra whatever and a 3Ghz Dual 2 Core whatever. A game is killer because of certain qualities that frankly, nobody has been able to identify, that I know of. Also keep in mind that the lifetime of a game is probably 3-6 months. It was about 6 months when I worked in the game industry. It's probably shorter now. I'm actually enjoying StormReach. For $15/mo, I get a very dynamic multiplayer experience, they're constantly upgrading and adding new modules and features, etc. Sure beats the "box" game that eventually gets boring because it's such a constrained system. There's other massively multiplayer games out there too, like Eve, I think is the name. Frankly, I think those type of games will define one vertical market, while the other will still be the time honored "play disconnected" style of game. Games that provide both are cool, but they don't have the richness of the world that something like StormReach has, at least IMO. Marc
Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer -
True, but mostly I am refering to the power capabilities of C#, because we have to admit 10 years ago I never thought be would have the type of hardware we have today running at these speeds. Remember the good al days where it took bout 3 mins to boot win98? But anyways I was just curious, cos processing power would not be a problem in the future for whatever game you write in C#.
Oliekrokenosterpikkelikkeastrysvoel
Chona1171 wrote:
Remember the good al days where it took bout 3 mins to boot win98?
I remember the good old days of windows 3.1x, dos 6.0 and even the 5 inch floppies you needed to insert into a machine so it would boot. Those things had the amazing capacity of 512 KB. Booting the cpu then took about 15 to 30 seconds... :)
I've found a living worth working for, but I haven't found work worth living for. :beer:
:jig: -
True but if I had a time machine I would go back 3 years before the invention of tetris and write my own version. Yea you get some people who still plays it so every now and then, but be honest if you have a killer PC and a copy of Elder Scrolls of Oblivion you wont be playing Tetris will you. I am talking about games that are selling now.
Oliekrokenosterpikkelikkeastrysvoel
Chona1171 wrote:
but be honest if you have a killer PC and a copy of Elder Scrolls of Oblivion you wont be playing Tetris will you.
I have several 'killer' PCs, and I tend to play old games on MAME (rarely) and the solitaire variants that come with the OS.
Chona1171 wrote:
I am talking about games that are selling now.
When someone actually comes up with a good idea for a game, it will sell like crazy, just like Tetris did. In the meantime, it'll all be about how many polygons are on the screen, although games like Age of Empires continue to sell AFAIK, and they aren't any great feat, graphics wise.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
-
C# memory is allocated via a garbage collector, this is true. I don't see that as a big problem. The sort of resources a game is likely to use a lot of are stuff you'd control disposal of via IDisposable, anyhow.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
I dont understand the garbage collector that well, as far as I understand is you can set the instance to null and call the garbage collector then it will maby clean un but this also requires some resources if its own. Mabe I should just stick to Information Systems its what I am good at.
Oliekrokenosterpikkelikkeastrysvoel
-
Chona1171 wrote:
but be honest if you have a killer PC and a copy of Elder Scrolls of Oblivion you wont be playing Tetris will you.
Sure I will. Tetris is a great 5 minute break diversion. It's free, it's easy to use, and it doesn't require a killer PC.
Chona1171 wrote:
I am talking about games that are selling now.
I honestly don't think a killer game requires a 256MB Radion Ultra whatever and a 3Ghz Dual 2 Core whatever. A game is killer because of certain qualities that frankly, nobody has been able to identify, that I know of. Also keep in mind that the lifetime of a game is probably 3-6 months. It was about 6 months when I worked in the game industry. It's probably shorter now. I'm actually enjoying StormReach. For $15/mo, I get a very dynamic multiplayer experience, they're constantly upgrading and adding new modules and features, etc. Sure beats the "box" game that eventually gets boring because it's such a constrained system. There's other massively multiplayer games out there too, like Eve, I think is the name. Frankly, I think those type of games will define one vertical market, while the other will still be the time honored "play disconnected" style of game. Games that provide both are cool, but they don't have the richness of the world that something like StormReach has, at least IMO. Marc
Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer -
Sure it is, why not?
I've found a living worth working for, but I haven't found work worth living for. :beer:
:jig:If it was, we would've seen hordes of games written in C#, wouldn't we? It may be *possible*, but I don't think it's *feasible*. There is no room for missing time slots in games. It's the closest thing to a hard real time system you'll on a regular PC. Ask any gamer about the slightest performance drop for just milliseconds. A game with such characteristics would be deemed "CRAP!" in the first review...
-
DirectX in C# is apparently only 4-5% slower than C++.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
DirectX is a very small part of a game...
-
I dont understand the garbage collector that well, as far as I understand is you can set the instance to null and call the garbage collector then it will maby clean un but this also requires some resources if its own. Mabe I should just stick to Information Systems its what I am good at.
Oliekrokenosterpikkelikkeastrysvoel
Chona1171 wrote:
Mabe I should just stick to Information Systems its what I am good at.
Nah, stretch yourself, become good at other things. Resources such as bitmap handles and database connections can be cleaned up by the IDisposable interface, which just means if an object has a Dispose method, you should call it when you don't want an object anymore. It's a poor mans substitute for deterministic destruction.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
-
Chona1171 wrote:
Remember the good al days where it took bout 3 mins to boot win98?
I remember the good old days of windows 3.1x, dos 6.0 and even the 5 inch floppies you needed to insert into a machine so it would boot. Those things had the amazing capacity of 512 KB. Booting the cpu then took about 15 to 30 seconds... :)
I've found a living worth working for, but I haven't found work worth living for. :beer:
:jig:And a 100mb hard drive went for a shitload of money. now terabyte drives are making the scenes. I even find that people arent using the normal CD's anymore its all DVD baby!!!!!!! and Blue ray is out but still very expensive, but I give it about 2 years to become a normal house hold item. My first PC was the ZX spectrum.
Oliekrokenosterpikkelikkeastrysvoel
-
Chona1171 wrote:
but be honest if you have a killer PC and a copy of Elder Scrolls of Oblivion you wont be playing Tetris will you.
Sure I will. Tetris is a great 5 minute break diversion. It's free, it's easy to use, and it doesn't require a killer PC.
Chona1171 wrote:
I am talking about games that are selling now.
I honestly don't think a killer game requires a 256MB Radion Ultra whatever and a 3Ghz Dual 2 Core whatever. A game is killer because of certain qualities that frankly, nobody has been able to identify, that I know of. Also keep in mind that the lifetime of a game is probably 3-6 months. It was about 6 months when I worked in the game industry. It's probably shorter now. I'm actually enjoying StormReach. For $15/mo, I get a very dynamic multiplayer experience, they're constantly upgrading and adding new modules and features, etc. Sure beats the "box" game that eventually gets boring because it's such a constrained system. There's other massively multiplayer games out there too, like Eve, I think is the name. Frankly, I think those type of games will define one vertical market, while the other will still be the time honored "play disconnected" style of game. Games that provide both are cool, but they don't have the richness of the world that something like StormReach has, at least IMO. Marc
Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmerMarc Clifton wrote:
A game is killer because of certain qualities that frankly, nobody has been able to identify, that I know of.
Indeed. I play Unreal Tournament - the first edition (released in 1999 I believe, or was it 1998?). Looks like crap by modern standards, but yet it's the only playable FPS game out there. Not only does UT kill manhours, it also allows you to kill! :-D
-
DirectX is a very small part of a game...
True, but it's the part you think of when you think of performance. I doubt that C# is much behind C++ in terms of ability to crunch numbers.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
-
If it was, we would've seen hordes of games written in C#, wouldn't we? It may be *possible*, but I don't think it's *feasible*. There is no room for missing time slots in games. It's the closest thing to a hard real time system you'll on a regular PC. Ask any gamer about the slightest performance drop for just milliseconds. A game with such characteristics would be deemed "CRAP!" in the first review...
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
If it was, we would've seen hordes of games written in C#, wouldn't we?
as I already stated further in the thread. For speedy games you need C/C++, but for slower games C# will do just fine... eg. Leisure suit Larry 9 could be written in C" perfectly. Doom 4, Need For Speed Hot Pursuit 3 and the likes, could not...
I've found a living worth working for, but I haven't found work worth living for. :beer:
:jig: -
Chona1171 wrote:
but be honest if you have a killer PC and a copy of Elder Scrolls of Oblivion you wont be playing Tetris will you.
I have several 'killer' PCs, and I tend to play old games on MAME (rarely) and the solitaire variants that come with the OS.
Chona1171 wrote:
I am talking about games that are selling now.
When someone actually comes up with a good idea for a game, it will sell like crazy, just like Tetris did. In the meantime, it'll all be about how many polygons are on the screen, although games like Age of Empires continue to sell AFAIK, and they aren't any great feat, graphics wise.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
What does Microsoft MVP Stand for? Yea good ideas sells best. but I got a real bummer some time ago. I dont know if you are familiar with the program MXIT that is like an online chat program. Well after I finished my Java2 (ME)I went and did some research and was busy with a program on the same concept, and I was quite soem pages of code into the program, when my good friend showed me the mixit program. Damn I though I was being original.
Oliekrokenosterpikkelikkeastrysvoel