Loving your job
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The thread below got me to thinking. One thing I'll never forget is catching a bus home and sitting in front of two girls, one complaining to the other that her job was hell on earth, but she wouldn't leave as it had a better retirement plan. She was early 20s and this was public service, so the retirement plan would not have been hugely different from one arm to the other. I remember thinking, she's gonna complain her whole life, so she can retire slightly closer, but still below, the poverty line. I started work at 20 ( kicked out of home, as it happens ), had a couple of reasonably dead end jobs, fell into sales, did that for 6 years, got sick of it, taught myself C++ and here I am. I've *never* hated a job, never had a bad boss, never been miserable at work ( excepting when I got sick of sales, and so I changed ). Having said that, programming is the one job I've had where what I do for a living is the most fun I have all day, where I look forward to work and think about it when I am not working. I just wonder what percentage of people are like me. Who actually *loves* their job, who kind of likes it, and who just codes for the money ? Cast your votes, with 5 meaning you just love programming, 1 meaning, it's a living.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
I love programming - but sometimes I hate myself for it.
Thank God for disproportional force.
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I know what the general concensus on requirements is around here. Not positive. :)
"Yes I know the voices are not real. But they have some pretty good ideas."
Really ? How does a team work together if no-one manages requirements ? That's just dumb.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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Some people here continue to insist that VB[.NET] is worth using, and that those who criticize it are elitist snobs. I've no problems admitting to using it, so long as i'm also allowed to state - as an informed opinion - that it is a complete and utter piece of shit, created only to make my life miserable. :)
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Shog9 wrote:
that it is a complete and utter piece of sh*t, created only to make my life miserable.
LMAO!
Jeremy Falcon
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The thread below got me to thinking. One thing I'll never forget is catching a bus home and sitting in front of two girls, one complaining to the other that her job was hell on earth, but she wouldn't leave as it had a better retirement plan. She was early 20s and this was public service, so the retirement plan would not have been hugely different from one arm to the other. I remember thinking, she's gonna complain her whole life, so she can retire slightly closer, but still below, the poverty line. I started work at 20 ( kicked out of home, as it happens ), had a couple of reasonably dead end jobs, fell into sales, did that for 6 years, got sick of it, taught myself C++ and here I am. I've *never* hated a job, never had a bad boss, never been miserable at work ( excepting when I got sick of sales, and so I changed ). Having said that, programming is the one job I've had where what I do for a living is the most fun I have all day, where I look forward to work and think about it when I am not working. I just wonder what percentage of people are like me. Who actually *loves* their job, who kind of likes it, and who just codes for the money ? Cast your votes, with 5 meaning you just love programming, 1 meaning, it's a living.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Well, builiding a business out of programming means I love it, and I am ready to put countless hours on it. However, I must say there are times I hate it and wish I had started an easier business like a store in a shopping mall!! (For example, when I late for a deadline or when a customer changes and changes requirements!) But it's a great job. I love accomplishing difficult things in elegant and simple ways. That feeling, it is just great! :)
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix Chihuahua, Mexico
Not much here: My CP Blog!
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The thread below got me to thinking. One thing I'll never forget is catching a bus home and sitting in front of two girls, one complaining to the other that her job was hell on earth, but she wouldn't leave as it had a better retirement plan. She was early 20s and this was public service, so the retirement plan would not have been hugely different from one arm to the other. I remember thinking, she's gonna complain her whole life, so she can retire slightly closer, but still below, the poverty line. I started work at 20 ( kicked out of home, as it happens ), had a couple of reasonably dead end jobs, fell into sales, did that for 6 years, got sick of it, taught myself C++ and here I am. I've *never* hated a job, never had a bad boss, never been miserable at work ( excepting when I got sick of sales, and so I changed ). Having said that, programming is the one job I've had where what I do for a living is the most fun I have all day, where I look forward to work and think about it when I am not working. I just wonder what percentage of people are like me. Who actually *loves* their job, who kind of likes it, and who just codes for the money ? Cast your votes, with 5 meaning you just love programming, 1 meaning, it's a living.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
I just wonder what percentage of people are like me. Who actually *loves* their job, who kind of likes it, and who just codes for the money ? Cast your votes, with 5 meaning you just love programming, 1 meaning, it's a living.
I love my job, most of the time. I love the work, I love subject, I love the chance to play with state of the art toys, I love the chance to help people, but most of all I love the chance to do R&D -- it is a chance to be creative, the "invent" new things, apply other programmer's work in ways they never expected. I love the job. The hours I could do without, the politics I could do without, and a couple of the people I clash with once in a while, especially those that expect me to survive 70 hour weeks healthy (not counting 2 hours on the road a day). Still, over all, I really do love the job. Of course my only comparisons are architecture draftsman, grocery bag-boy, phone sales, gardening, and accounting. :)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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The thread below got me to thinking. One thing I'll never forget is catching a bus home and sitting in front of two girls, one complaining to the other that her job was hell on earth, but she wouldn't leave as it had a better retirement plan. She was early 20s and this was public service, so the retirement plan would not have been hugely different from one arm to the other. I remember thinking, she's gonna complain her whole life, so she can retire slightly closer, but still below, the poverty line. I started work at 20 ( kicked out of home, as it happens ), had a couple of reasonably dead end jobs, fell into sales, did that for 6 years, got sick of it, taught myself C++ and here I am. I've *never* hated a job, never had a bad boss, never been miserable at work ( excepting when I got sick of sales, and so I changed ). Having said that, programming is the one job I've had where what I do for a living is the most fun I have all day, where I look forward to work and think about it when I am not working. I just wonder what percentage of people are like me. Who actually *loves* their job, who kind of likes it, and who just codes for the money ? Cast your votes, with 5 meaning you just love programming, 1 meaning, it's a living.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
My job is incredibly difficult and challenging, which is what I love about it. I've always said that we (all of us in IT) are incredibly fortunate to be able to get up and go do something we enjoy. Unfortunately, most people in the world don't share that experience and are stuck doing something they hate that takes up at least 1/3 of their life.
Tom Archer (blog) Program Manager - Windows SDK Headers, Libraries & Tools MICROSOFT
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The thread below got me to thinking. One thing I'll never forget is catching a bus home and sitting in front of two girls, one complaining to the other that her job was hell on earth, but she wouldn't leave as it had a better retirement plan. She was early 20s and this was public service, so the retirement plan would not have been hugely different from one arm to the other. I remember thinking, she's gonna complain her whole life, so she can retire slightly closer, but still below, the poverty line. I started work at 20 ( kicked out of home, as it happens ), had a couple of reasonably dead end jobs, fell into sales, did that for 6 years, got sick of it, taught myself C++ and here I am. I've *never* hated a job, never had a bad boss, never been miserable at work ( excepting when I got sick of sales, and so I changed ). Having said that, programming is the one job I've had where what I do for a living is the most fun I have all day, where I look forward to work and think about it when I am not working. I just wonder what percentage of people are like me. Who actually *loves* their job, who kind of likes it, and who just codes for the money ? Cast your votes, with 5 meaning you just love programming, 1 meaning, it's a living.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
If the University that I went to didn't make EEs take lots of computer classes, I would be miserable too...I love what I do (software design)...to the point of working at home and coming to work on my days off (on my own time)...I even created a couple of applications over the Christmas breaks that the company sells for major $$$...they were originally intended to aid in internal software testing of another project but we found that they were also useful for operations / maintanence field training and doing customer site demos ... :sweet: & :cool: Steve
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I love programming! (Although, I've been curious what it would be like to work in another field) I quit my first job after only a year. That job started out well (wrote software for phone card services), was appreciated by my coworkers, and had a great time. After that gig I was put in a maintainance project of a really OLD, SICK, HUGELY COMPLEX and WICKED system for issue tracking. This was a huge company, probably one of the biggest telecom companies in the world. When I woke up one morning wondering why the hell I was wasting my time on mainframe systems about as old as me, satellite systems designed to overcome the bugs in every other node in these systems, I decided to quit. Went back to university to finish my master's degree, while teaching. When I realized I didn't like teaching*, I quit that job to hook up with old university friends, writing POS software. Which is where I am today. :) *The teaching per se was pretty fun. I just didn't like the fact that some student's fail. It felt like I had failed. I realize that not everyone do succeed, but feelings sometimes doesn't listen to reason. :)
-- Not based on the Novel by James Fenimore Cooper
The teaching per se was pretty fun. I just didn't like the fact that some student's fail. It felt like I had failed. I realize that not everyone do succeed, but feelings sometimes doesn't listen to reason. I know exactly what you mean, I did a short stint teaching at my Univ too and I came to the same decision for the same reason. Steve
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The thread below got me to thinking. One thing I'll never forget is catching a bus home and sitting in front of two girls, one complaining to the other that her job was hell on earth, but she wouldn't leave as it had a better retirement plan. She was early 20s and this was public service, so the retirement plan would not have been hugely different from one arm to the other. I remember thinking, she's gonna complain her whole life, so she can retire slightly closer, but still below, the poverty line. I started work at 20 ( kicked out of home, as it happens ), had a couple of reasonably dead end jobs, fell into sales, did that for 6 years, got sick of it, taught myself C++ and here I am. I've *never* hated a job, never had a bad boss, never been miserable at work ( excepting when I got sick of sales, and so I changed ). Having said that, programming is the one job I've had where what I do for a living is the most fun I have all day, where I look forward to work and think about it when I am not working. I just wonder what percentage of people are like me. Who actually *loves* their job, who kind of likes it, and who just codes for the money ? Cast your votes, with 5 meaning you just love programming, 1 meaning, it's a living.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
My job is like my marriage. I'd rather be programming then not working. Just as I'd rather be married to my wife then single. But that doesn't mean it great all the time. 4.
how vital enterprise application are for proactive organizations leveraging collective synergy to think outside the box and formulate their key objectives into a win-win game plan with a quality-driven approach that focuses on empowering key players to drive-up their core competencies and increase expectations with an all-around initiative to drive up the bottom-line. But of course, that's all a "high level" overview of things --thedailywtf 3/21/06
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My job is like my marriage. I'd rather be programming then not working. Just as I'd rather be married to my wife then single. But that doesn't mean it great all the time. 4.
how vital enterprise application are for proactive organizations leveraging collective synergy to think outside the box and formulate their key objectives into a win-win game plan with a quality-driven approach that focuses on empowering key players to drive-up their core competencies and increase expectations with an all-around initiative to drive up the bottom-line. But of course, that's all a "high level" overview of things --thedailywtf 3/21/06
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
My job is like my marriage
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
But that doesn't mean it great all the time.
She doesn't use the Internet then ? :P
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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The thread below got me to thinking. One thing I'll never forget is catching a bus home and sitting in front of two girls, one complaining to the other that her job was hell on earth, but she wouldn't leave as it had a better retirement plan. She was early 20s and this was public service, so the retirement plan would not have been hugely different from one arm to the other. I remember thinking, she's gonna complain her whole life, so she can retire slightly closer, but still below, the poverty line. I started work at 20 ( kicked out of home, as it happens ), had a couple of reasonably dead end jobs, fell into sales, did that for 6 years, got sick of it, taught myself C++ and here I am. I've *never* hated a job, never had a bad boss, never been miserable at work ( excepting when I got sick of sales, and so I changed ). Having said that, programming is the one job I've had where what I do for a living is the most fun I have all day, where I look forward to work and think about it when I am not working. I just wonder what percentage of people are like me. Who actually *loves* their job, who kind of likes it, and who just codes for the money ? Cast your votes, with 5 meaning you just love programming, 1 meaning, it's a living.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
I was up at 2am last night happily working away on some code for work. I definitley love it :) As for complaining... I may be wrong but attitude is a big part of job satisfaction. That young woman could be given her dream job and would be complaining about it within 2 months. Doesn't matter what the job is, she'll find a way to complain about it. Attitude.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland FeedHenry needs you
eh, stop bugging me about it, give it a couple of days, see what happens.
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Really ? How does a team work together if no-one manages requirements ? That's just dumb.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
You are missing my point. Yes we want a clear statement, however many on this site do not feel clear statements are supplied to them. So when requirements are mentioned here, the typical comments often are in a very negative manner. My original comment was to the general "you" as readers, and did not want to be associated with the what I percieve as the typical "one who supplied garbage", but one who at least my people thought my product (the requirements they were expected to meet) was at least ok.
"Yes I know the voices are not real. But they have some pretty good ideas."
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I was up at 2am last night happily working away on some code for work. I definitley love it :) As for complaining... I may be wrong but attitude is a big part of job satisfaction. That young woman could be given her dream job and would be complaining about it within 2 months. Doesn't matter what the job is, she'll find a way to complain about it. Attitude.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland FeedHenry needs you
eh, stop bugging me about it, give it a couple of days, see what happens.
Paul Watson wrote:
I may be wrong but attitude is a big part of job satisfaction
I agree - that was kind of half my point in the start. I've NEVER had a bad job, because I've always worked hard and made the most of where I was. I've had workmates trying to get me in on a whinge session about the boss, and I've always said that I don't have a problem, because I never have. Some people seem determined to make the worst of any situation
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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Paul Watson wrote:
I may be wrong but attitude is a big part of job satisfaction
I agree - that was kind of half my point in the start. I've NEVER had a bad job, because I've always worked hard and made the most of where I was. I've had workmates trying to get me in on a whinge session about the boss, and I've always said that I don't have a problem, because I never have. Some people seem determined to make the worst of any situation
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
And you can learn plenty from bad situations (because no work environment is perfect.) My first job involved two brothers as the owners and they would throw chairs at each other (one occasion the one brother ended up in hospital.) It was a shit environment to work in but I learnt a helluva lot.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland FeedHenry needs you
eh, stop bugging me about it, give it a couple of days, see what happens.
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The thread below got me to thinking. One thing I'll never forget is catching a bus home and sitting in front of two girls, one complaining to the other that her job was hell on earth, but she wouldn't leave as it had a better retirement plan. She was early 20s and this was public service, so the retirement plan would not have been hugely different from one arm to the other. I remember thinking, she's gonna complain her whole life, so she can retire slightly closer, but still below, the poverty line. I started work at 20 ( kicked out of home, as it happens ), had a couple of reasonably dead end jobs, fell into sales, did that for 6 years, got sick of it, taught myself C++ and here I am. I've *never* hated a job, never had a bad boss, never been miserable at work ( excepting when I got sick of sales, and so I changed ). Having said that, programming is the one job I've had where what I do for a living is the most fun I have all day, where I look forward to work and think about it when I am not working. I just wonder what percentage of people are like me. Who actually *loves* their job, who kind of likes it, and who just codes for the money ? Cast your votes, with 5 meaning you just love programming, 1 meaning, it's a living.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Rather be on a clothing optional beach in south america with millions of dollars, a 100' power yacht, and my own custom built 100 node linux cluster.
A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the Universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." -- Stephen Crane
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I know what the general concensus on requirements is around here. Not positive. :)
"Yes I know the voices are not real. But they have some pretty good ideas."
I think the negative opinion about requirements around here is not the requirements themselves per se, but the poor way they are communicated. Programmers and engineers are people who pride themselves on precision. This expression means precisely that operation, no more, no less. The 'idea people' we get our requirements from don't think or work that way. They get vaguely-worded requests from customers, bandy it about amongst themselves, and eventually pass these off to the technical staff in whatever form suits them or the organization. To make matters worse, a lot of them think of themselves as technically proficient (e.g. they recognize buzzwords) and they try to dress up their requirements description using as many buzzwords as possible. Technical folks are just as bad. Most engineers absolutely hate putting words on paper. I've known programmers that can pound in 500 or 1,000 lines of code in a day, but can't write a complete sentence to save their ass. These people get this vague, wishy-washy requirements description from the marketeers. They respond to it with a specification of some kind that is supposed to describe how they're going to meet the requirements. Since they hate writing, they don't make a lot of effort to speak to their audience in language they understand. Instead, they respond with techno-jargon and terse one-line bullets, and hope the whole thing goes away. The end result can be frustrating for all concerned. The technical people disrespect the marketeers, and the marketeers distrust the engineering staff. Someone has to bridge the gap. My approach, as an engineer, is to write my specification in two parts. The first part, the 'functional description', basically restates the requirements but in a somewhat more rigorous and concrete fashion. I talk to the marketing folks; I walk into their cubes, and ask outright: "What do you really want here?" You'd be amazed at how many times the stuff they have written down has absolutely nothing to do with what they're really asking for. "Customer X asked us for feature Y, and we thought that meant we needed to do Z." Actually, all you need to do is move a button from one dialog to another, or something like that. Once the functional description is reasonably complete, I write the second part: an implementation specification. This is the part most engineers write in response to the requirements description. This is also the part that the marketeers will not understand. When this is all you give them, the
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I think the negative opinion about requirements around here is not the requirements themselves per se, but the poor way they are communicated. Programmers and engineers are people who pride themselves on precision. This expression means precisely that operation, no more, no less. The 'idea people' we get our requirements from don't think or work that way. They get vaguely-worded requests from customers, bandy it about amongst themselves, and eventually pass these off to the technical staff in whatever form suits them or the organization. To make matters worse, a lot of them think of themselves as technically proficient (e.g. they recognize buzzwords) and they try to dress up their requirements description using as many buzzwords as possible. Technical folks are just as bad. Most engineers absolutely hate putting words on paper. I've known programmers that can pound in 500 or 1,000 lines of code in a day, but can't write a complete sentence to save their ass. These people get this vague, wishy-washy requirements description from the marketeers. They respond to it with a specification of some kind that is supposed to describe how they're going to meet the requirements. Since they hate writing, they don't make a lot of effort to speak to their audience in language they understand. Instead, they respond with techno-jargon and terse one-line bullets, and hope the whole thing goes away. The end result can be frustrating for all concerned. The technical people disrespect the marketeers, and the marketeers distrust the engineering staff. Someone has to bridge the gap. My approach, as an engineer, is to write my specification in two parts. The first part, the 'functional description', basically restates the requirements but in a somewhat more rigorous and concrete fashion. I talk to the marketing folks; I walk into their cubes, and ask outright: "What do you really want here?" You'd be amazed at how many times the stuff they have written down has absolutely nothing to do with what they're really asking for. "Customer X asked us for feature Y, and we thought that meant we needed to do Z." Actually, all you need to do is move a button from one dialog to another, or something like that. Once the functional description is reasonably complete, I write the second part: an implementation specification. This is the part most engineers write in response to the requirements description. This is also the part that the marketeers will not understand. When this is all you give them, the
Gary, Yes I generally agree, I tried to be more clear in the my reponse an hour [oh 3 hours] ago. FYI, I have in the past ?5? years I generally try to write the first document with no implementation stated as you mention. Other than those items that would be included in standards to follow involving external partners (i.e. Sorry guys it does not matter what you/I think is best, we have a contract to do it this way.) Have a great day. -- modified at 11:23 Friday 4th August, 2006
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Gary, Yes I generally agree, I tried to be more clear in the my reponse an hour [oh 3 hours] ago. FYI, I have in the past ?5? years I generally try to write the first document with no implementation stated as you mention. Other than those items that would be included in standards to follow involving external partners (i.e. Sorry guys it does not matter what you/I think is best, we have a contract to do it this way.) Have a great day. -- modified at 11:23 Friday 4th August, 2006
Michael A. Barnhart wrote:
Sorry guys it does not matter what you/I think is best, we have a contract to do it this way
Yeah, I've run into that one more times than I can count :rolleyes:.
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