Math and music and programming
-
When I talk with non-technical people about the fact that I create software, they often assume that I must be a math wiz. It seems to be a common stereotype that people have about techies -- that we are all mathematical wizards. Of course, unless you are doing mathematical programming, you don't need to know much math to write code. Anyone know how this stereotype came into being? I find that my background in music helps me greatly with programming. The two activities involve similar thought processes; patterns, variations on a theme, rhythms, etc. Any musician-turned-programmers out there agree or disagree with that?
:josh: My WPF Blog[^]
Josh Smith wrote:
I find that my background in music helps me greatly with programming. The two activities involve similar thought processes; patterns, variations on a theme, rhythms, etc. Any musician-turned-programmers out there agree or disagree with that?
It all depends on what you are doing and the subject of the programming. Art background helps me, but the math and physics doesn't hurt. When I don't want to do the math, I remind everyone I got a D in Calculus. When I want to do the math, I remind them that D was a 91% (92% required for C). Music is math, to some extent. Rhythm is a curve of extremely complex relationships of numbers that flow smoothly in an agreeable pattern. Some things you can change without destroying the piece, some things you change make it scream to be turned off. You don't have to know those formulas, no one really does, but you understand a complex relationship is going on and you work with it. My music background is less than my art background, but I am sure it doesn't hurt either.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
-
When I talk with non-technical people about the fact that I create software, they often assume that I must be a math wiz. It seems to be a common stereotype that people have about techies -- that we are all mathematical wizards. Of course, unless you are doing mathematical programming, you don't need to know much math to write code. Anyone know how this stereotype came into being? I find that my background in music helps me greatly with programming. The two activities involve similar thought processes; patterns, variations on a theme, rhythms, etc. Any musician-turned-programmers out there agree or disagree with that?
:josh: My WPF Blog[^]
Josh Smith wrote:
I find that my background in music helps me greatly with programming. The two activities involve similar thought processes; patterns, variations on a theme, rhythms, etc. Any musician-turned-programmers out there agree or disagree with that?
agree, absolutely. without a doubt, the best technician I ever met over a 40 year career is a trained musician. he holds a masters in music from North Texas University. Masters thesis was on Gregorian chants.
Mike Dear NYT - the fact is, the founding fathers hung traitors. dennisd45 wrote: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced
-
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
what is the wind, atmospheric pressure? location on earth? Is the target moving or still? air-burst or impact detonated? coefficient of drag? guidance or dumb?
Well, see, now that's why a simple math problem turned into several million lines of Fortran code. :) Marc
Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmerMarc Clifton wrote:
Well, see, now that's why a simple math problem turned into several million lines of Fortran code.
That is why I don't come cheap. :) and the Fortran code got translated to C a long time ago. ;P
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
-
Josh Smith wrote:
I find that my background in music helps me greatly with programming. The two activities involve similar thought processes; patterns, variations on a theme, rhythms, etc. Any musician-turned-programmers out there agree or disagree with that?
It all depends on what you are doing and the subject of the programming. Art background helps me, but the math and physics doesn't hurt. When I don't want to do the math, I remind everyone I got a D in Calculus. When I want to do the math, I remind them that D was a 91% (92% required for C). Music is math, to some extent. Rhythm is a curve of extremely complex relationships of numbers that flow smoothly in an agreeable pattern. Some things you can change without destroying the piece, some things you change make it scream to be turned off. You don't have to know those formulas, no one really does, but you understand a complex relationship is going on and you work with it. My music background is less than my art background, but I am sure it doesn't hurt either.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
-
Josh Smith wrote:
I find that my background in music helps me greatly with programming. The two activities involve similar thought processes; patterns, variations on a theme, rhythms, etc. Any musician-turned-programmers out there agree or disagree with that?
agree, absolutely. without a doubt, the best technician I ever met over a 40 year career is a trained musician. he holds a masters in music from North Texas University. Masters thesis was on Gregorian chants.
Mike Dear NYT - the fact is, the founding fathers hung traitors. dennisd45 wrote: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced
Mike Gaskey wrote:
Masters thesis was on Gregorian chants.
That sounds like my kind of dude :cool:
:josh: My WPF Blog[^]
-
When I talk with non-technical people about the fact that I create software, they often assume that I must be a math wiz. It seems to be a common stereotype that people have about techies -- that we are all mathematical wizards. Of course, unless you are doing mathematical programming, you don't need to know much math to write code. Anyone know how this stereotype came into being? I find that my background in music helps me greatly with programming. The two activities involve similar thought processes; patterns, variations on a theme, rhythms, etc. Any musician-turned-programmers out there agree or disagree with that?
:josh: My WPF Blog[^]
A top programmer once told me that the best programmers are failed mathematicians! :)
Kevin
-
A top programmer once told me that the best programmers are failed mathematicians! :)
Kevin
Kevin McFarlane wrote:
A top programmer once told me that the best programmers are failed mathematicians!
Do you agree with him/her?
:josh: My WPF Blog[^]
-
It's a curve. If enough people scored 100% on the final, then the dude who gets one question wrong gets screwed. On the other hand, if everybody scores a 40% on the final, then their scores are As and the guy who scored a 36% gets a B, etc. Here's a great article[^] that shows why it's popular and why it also sucks. The most drastic example I can think of is a chemistry major I know. Her Organic Chemistry midterm score was a 10% and she got a B. That's just stupid. To me, that's a huge indicator that the test needs to be redesigned.
225 years ago, we set an example for the rest of the world by creating a country where everyone could vote...
Well, except for women and black people, but we fixed that!
-Adam Duritz, of Counting Crows -
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Please explain the grading system.
The University of New Mexico was in a hidden scandle during 1983-1984 called "Lobo-Gate" (because any scandle had to be called "gate" :rolleyes: ). The school was illegally funneling tuition fees to the football team for various... uhm... expenditures. By only passing 100 students to Calc I regardless of incoming freshmen, they force the students to retake and repay for Calc I, as well as save the cost of paying for Calc II/III professors. It all fell apart in 1985, but I was already gone and not returning.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
-
When I talk with non-technical people about the fact that I create software, they often assume that I must be a math wiz. It seems to be a common stereotype that people have about techies -- that we are all mathematical wizards. Of course, unless you are doing mathematical programming, you don't need to know much math to write code. Anyone know how this stereotype came into being? I find that my background in music helps me greatly with programming. The two activities involve similar thought processes; patterns, variations on a theme, rhythms, etc. Any musician-turned-programmers out there agree or disagree with that?
:josh: My WPF Blog[^]
-
It's a curve. If enough people scored 100% on the final, then the dude who gets one question wrong gets screwed. On the other hand, if everybody scores a 40% on the final, then their scores are As and the guy who scored a 36% gets a B, etc. Here's a great article[^] that shows why it's popular and why it also sucks. The most drastic example I can think of is a chemistry major I know. Her Organic Chemistry midterm score was a 10% and she got a B. That's just stupid. To me, that's a huge indicator that the test needs to be redesigned.
225 years ago, we set an example for the rest of the world by creating a country where everyone could vote...
Well, except for women and black people, but we fixed that!
-Adam Duritz, of Counting CrowsDavid Stone wrote:
To me, that's a huge indicator that the test needs to be redesigned.
It was... by firing 60% of administrative supporting staff. :) Including the Dean I told where to put the grading system on my way out. :cool:
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
-
Math, music and drawing are (or can be) very similar. You know the book 'Goedel, Escher, Bach' of (I think) Dennet/Hofstatter?
ensger wrote:
You know the book 'Goedel, Escher, Bach' of (I think) Dennet/Hofstatter?
I've been planning to read that book for years. It looks very intriguing. Have you read it?
:josh: My WPF Blog[^]
-
When I talk with non-technical people about the fact that I create software, they often assume that I must be a math wiz. It seems to be a common stereotype that people have about techies -- that we are all mathematical wizards. Of course, unless you are doing mathematical programming, you don't need to know much math to write code. Anyone know how this stereotype came into being? I find that my background in music helps me greatly with programming. The two activities involve similar thought processes; patterns, variations on a theme, rhythms, etc. Any musician-turned-programmers out there agree or disagree with that?
:josh: My WPF Blog[^]
Music is mathematical. I started as a music major, and then realized I was better at Math so I changed my major. But once I started programming as part of the math cirriculum it was all over. All I did was code. And math and programming go hand in hand. For a long time there wasn't a CS department at the colleges so you learned it in the math classes. My first programming class was a math class. So they definately go hand in hand. Bits and Binary are number systems which is a mathematical concept. But you bring up an ironic relationship. Music is math in its relationships, its only when personalized that it begins to be a form of expression. But taking theory classes, there wasn't much different between music and math and programming. In fact music is also programming.
This statement is false.
-
David Stone wrote:
To me, that's a huge indicator that the test needs to be redesigned.
It was... by firing 60% of administrative supporting staff. :) Including the Dean I told where to put the grading system on my way out. :cool:
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
Including the Dean I told where to put the grading system on my way out.
Heh. I'd love to do that. I hate the curve. I'm typically screwed by it, as I'm a good enough student to get by without doing a whole lot of studying (I'm lazy. ;P), but I go to a school where everybody lives to study.
225 years ago, we set an example for the rest of the world by creating a country where everyone could vote...
Well, except for women and black people, but we fixed that!
-Adam Duritz, of Counting Crows -
ensger wrote:
You know the book 'Goedel, Escher, Bach' of (I think) Dennet/Hofstatter?
I've been planning to read that book for years. It looks very intriguing. Have you read it?
:josh: My WPF Blog[^]
-
Marc Clifton wrote:
Well, see, now that's why a simple math problem turned into several million lines of Fortran code.
That is why I don't come cheap. :) and the Fortran code got translated to C a long time ago. ;P
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
When I was in College they just switched from Fortran to C. All of the guys the year before me were writing Fortran and I got to write C. :)
This statement is false.
-
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
Including the Dean I told where to put the grading system on my way out.
Heh. I'd love to do that. I hate the curve. I'm typically screwed by it, as I'm a good enough student to get by without doing a whole lot of studying (I'm lazy. ;P), but I go to a school where everybody lives to study.
225 years ago, we set an example for the rest of the world by creating a country where everyone could vote...
Well, except for women and black people, but we fixed that!
-Adam Duritz, of Counting CrowsDavid Stone wrote:
I'm typically screwed by it, as I'm a good enough student to get by without doing a whole lot of studying (I'm lazy. ),
Same here, that is why I was a B+ and A- student, except for programming where I had a natural knack, so aced anything put in front of me in school. But competing against other students going back for 2nd time calc I and me still not being able to Ace anything.... it was like the lottery... 600 students all trying for the 100 slots to move on. and every semester there were more trying, I got fed up, and it got so huge they got caught. So all worked out reasonably well. At least I was not dumb enough to take the offer of a "free pass" to the next level if I were to take tests for the football team. I heard when it all fell apart those students got hit hard too.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
-
Josh Smith wrote:
Anyone know how this stereotype came into being?
Sure, because computers were originally created to solve math problems. The classic one being, if I shoot a 500 pound bomb at this trajectory and that velocity, where will it fall? Marc
Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmerAnd of course, the modern day version of that question is, "If I launch a web site in partnership with a Fortune 500 company, will it bomb?"
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
-
When I talk with non-technical people about the fact that I create software, they often assume that I must be a math wiz. It seems to be a common stereotype that people have about techies -- that we are all mathematical wizards. Of course, unless you are doing mathematical programming, you don't need to know much math to write code. Anyone know how this stereotype came into being? I find that my background in music helps me greatly with programming. The two activities involve similar thought processes; patterns, variations on a theme, rhythms, etc. Any musician-turned-programmers out there agree or disagree with that?
:josh: My WPF Blog[^]
Josh Smith wrote:
Of course, unless you are doing mathematical programming, you don't need to know much math to write code.
there's a lot of mathematical theory in most graduate-level programming courses and cutting-edge algorithm design. even in undergrad, ten years ago, i had to take a ton of calculus, discrete math, and stats (physics, too) - it was essentially an engineering degree. so, if you get a degree in CS, you're going to have seen a lot more math than the average person will. and if you want to be able to do anything in graphics or sound processing, you're going to have to know quite a bit of math, because the scientists and researchers who come up with all the cool new processing algorithms don't write their papers in C++ - they write them in mathematical notation. of course, nobody needs any of it to write web pages.
Josh Smith wrote:
Any musician-turned-programmers out there agree or disagree with that?
i don't know if musical ability helps programming ability or vice versa. actually, i suspect that they are both due to some other, lower-level ability; a tendency to make a certain kind of mental model of a problem, maybe.
-
A top programmer once told me that the best programmers are failed mathematicians! :)
Kevin
Yet another parallel. They also say the best bass players are failed guitarists. :-D
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com