.Net Prejudice
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I just entered the world of the .Net framework (specifically VB.Net) and was surprised at the steep learning curve when coming from VB6. At first I was able to notice similarities and start working on new projects right away but I keep running into walls that frustrate me and it's making me hate .Net! I'm sure that it's all due to a lack of knowledge. I used to make use of the winsock control in VB6 for many of my implementations but in VB .Net everything just seems OVERCOMPLICATED! So I want to take a step back and start at the basics, can anyone recommend a good (free) book or tutorial? I have some JAVA experience so I'm not at a total loss when it comes to understanding classes, constructors, methods, inheritance, overriding, overloading etc. but it's things like Delegates, Operators, Interfaces and all the other mumbo jumbo that are new to me that knocks me of my horse. If anyone knows where's a good place to start, let me in! Kind Regards
you can't forget something you never knew...
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I just entered the world of the .Net framework (specifically VB.Net) and was surprised at the steep learning curve when coming from VB6. At first I was able to notice similarities and start working on new projects right away but I keep running into walls that frustrate me and it's making me hate .Net! I'm sure that it's all due to a lack of knowledge. I used to make use of the winsock control in VB6 for many of my implementations but in VB .Net everything just seems OVERCOMPLICATED! So I want to take a step back and start at the basics, can anyone recommend a good (free) book or tutorial? I have some JAVA experience so I'm not at a total loss when it comes to understanding classes, constructors, methods, inheritance, overriding, overloading etc. but it's things like Delegates, Operators, Interfaces and all the other mumbo jumbo that are new to me that knocks me of my horse. If anyone knows where's a good place to start, let me in! Kind Regards
you can't forget something you never knew...
evilnoodle wrote:
I used to make use of the winsock control in VB6 for many of my implementations but in VB .Net everything just seems OVERCOMPLICATED!
ROTF! .NET already provides a variety of ways of implementing a winsock component. It's EASIER! I'd recommend, start getting familiar with the .NET namespaces and their classes. Pick some articles on CP to read (no, not mine, you need something simpler to start with ;P ) Marc
Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
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I just entered the world of the .Net framework (specifically VB.Net) and was surprised at the steep learning curve when coming from VB6. At first I was able to notice similarities and start working on new projects right away but I keep running into walls that frustrate me and it's making me hate .Net! I'm sure that it's all due to a lack of knowledge. I used to make use of the winsock control in VB6 for many of my implementations but in VB .Net everything just seems OVERCOMPLICATED! So I want to take a step back and start at the basics, can anyone recommend a good (free) book or tutorial? I have some JAVA experience so I'm not at a total loss when it comes to understanding classes, constructors, methods, inheritance, overriding, overloading etc. but it's things like Delegates, Operators, Interfaces and all the other mumbo jumbo that are new to me that knocks me of my horse. If anyone knows where's a good place to start, let me in! Kind Regards
you can't forget something you never knew...
evilnoodle wrote:
was surprised at the steep learning curve when coming from VB6.
It should have been steeper, but the VB6 people complained and so a lot of bad stuff got reintroduced. VB.NET is essentially a whole new language with VB syntax.
evilnoodle wrote:
everything just seems OVERCOMPLICATED!
That's because VB.NET is a real programming language. VB before .NET was really just thrown together, with whatever seemed at the time to be a good idea and to make things easier for those using it.
evilnoodle wrote:
but it's things like Delegates, Operators, Interfaces and all the other mumbo jumbo that are new to me that knocks me of my horse.
I'm not sure if Java has delegates, but it sure has operators and interfaces.
evilnoodle wrote:
If anyone knows where's a good place to start, let me in!
I'd treat VB.NET as a whole new language, and buy a good book on the topic, preferably one that teaches the language and not how to build a UI in the IDE.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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I just entered the world of the .Net framework (specifically VB.Net) and was surprised at the steep learning curve when coming from VB6. At first I was able to notice similarities and start working on new projects right away but I keep running into walls that frustrate me and it's making me hate .Net! I'm sure that it's all due to a lack of knowledge. I used to make use of the winsock control in VB6 for many of my implementations but in VB .Net everything just seems OVERCOMPLICATED! So I want to take a step back and start at the basics, can anyone recommend a good (free) book or tutorial? I have some JAVA experience so I'm not at a total loss when it comes to understanding classes, constructors, methods, inheritance, overriding, overloading etc. but it's things like Delegates, Operators, Interfaces and all the other mumbo jumbo that are new to me that knocks me of my horse. If anyone knows where's a good place to start, let me in! Kind Regards
you can't forget something you never knew...
Afterall, every one knows VB.NET sucks.
A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the Universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." -- Stephen Crane
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Afterall, every one knows VB.NET sucks.
A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the Universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." -- Stephen Crane
LOL - I would almost advocate that, if only to force using .NET stuff instead of VB6 legacy garbage that was included due to the whining of some people scared of change. But, it's probably easier to move from VB6 to VB.NET, they legacy stuff is all in the visualbasic namespace, I believe. So, it's easy to cut out.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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LOL - I would almost advocate that, if only to force using .NET stuff instead of VB6 legacy garbage that was included due to the whining of some people scared of change. But, it's probably easier to move from VB6 to VB.NET, they legacy stuff is all in the visualbasic namespace, I believe. So, it's easy to cut out.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
VB6 legacy garbage that was included due to the whining of some people scared of change
I'm not fully conversant with the history of this, but was this he developers whinging, or the large corporates who all run their back-end systems on VB6? * * (Actually, it's probably VB6 automating some Excel spreadsheets that get data from an Access database using linked tables that connect to an Oracle back-end, but you get the idea)
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Christian Graus wrote:
VB6 legacy garbage that was included due to the whining of some people scared of change
I'm not fully conversant with the history of this, but was this he developers whinging, or the large corporates who all run their back-end systems on VB6? * * (Actually, it's probably VB6 automating some Excel spreadsheets that get data from an Access database using linked tables that connect to an Oracle back-end, but you get the idea)
I thought it was MVPs, or maybe I'm thinking of the infamous petition. It was certainly a subset of VB6 devs.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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I thought it was MVPs, or maybe I'm thinking of the infamous petition. It was certainly a subset of VB6 devs.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Karl?:-D
I only read cp for the articles.
Iron Speed Designer MVP
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Afterall, every one knows VB.NET sucks.
A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the Universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." -- Stephen Crane
I'm a VB programmer and while I don't think VB sucks since it is mostly just a different syntext then c#, I would agree with the concept. You will be much more marketable if you bite the bullet and learn C# at this point. Just remember you have to put ; after everything and use curly brackets.
E=mc2 -> BOOM
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I'm a VB programmer and while I don't think VB sucks since it is mostly just a different syntext then c#, I would agree with the concept. You will be much more marketable if you bite the bullet and learn C# at this point. Just remember you have to put ; after everything and use curly brackets.
E=mc2 -> BOOM
I know VB4, VB6, and VB.NET so I have a good position to stand back and claim how much it sucks.
A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the Universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." -- Stephen Crane
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I'm a VB programmer and while I don't think VB sucks since it is mostly just a different syntext then c#, I would agree with the concept. You will be much more marketable if you bite the bullet and learn C# at this point. Just remember you have to put ; after everything and use curly brackets.
E=mc2 -> BOOM
Albert Einstein. wrote:
You will be much more marketable if you bite the bullet and learn C# at this point. Just remember you have to put ; after everything and use curly brackets.
The difference between languages is more than just syntax and semi-colons. The cultural difference is what really draws a distinction. VBers are associated with the attitude of "I don't care why or how it works, it just works, and I can use it in my app." C++ers are associated with "I don't care if I can use it in my app, I just want to know how it works and how elegantly it uses abstruse design patterns." C#ers fall somewhere in between (depending on whether they come from a VB, C++, or Java background). The clunkiness of VB is a minor reason why so many people hate it.
:josh: My WPF Blog[^]
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Albert Einstein. wrote:
You will be much more marketable if you bite the bullet and learn C# at this point. Just remember you have to put ; after everything and use curly brackets.
The difference between languages is more than just syntax and semi-colons. The cultural difference is what really draws a distinction. VBers are associated with the attitude of "I don't care why or how it works, it just works, and I can use it in my app." C++ers are associated with "I don't care if I can use it in my app, I just want to know how it works and how elegantly it uses abstruse design patterns." C#ers fall somewhere in between (depending on whether they come from a VB, C++, or Java background). The clunkiness of VB is a minor reason why so many people hate it.
:josh: My WPF Blog[^]
Nice definition!! :laugh:
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Nice definition!! :laugh:
Who says programmers are not religious. This is such an old debate and very tiresome. If you are basing your ability on the language you use it's a very poor crutch indeed. I don't care if you are coding in JavaScript or cobal, vb3 or c#, a professional programmer writes good solid code, no matter what the language. My point was simply that there are more jobs for c# people then vb people, at least in my experience, so I was encouraging a newbie to take up c#, not to start this same old stupid debate.
E=mc2 -> BOOM
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Christian Graus wrote:
VB6 legacy garbage that was included due to the whining of some people scared of change
I'm not fully conversant with the history of this, but was this he developers whinging, or the large corporates who all run their back-end systems on VB6? * * (Actually, it's probably VB6 automating some Excel spreadsheets that get data from an Access database using linked tables that connect to an Oracle back-end, but you get the idea)
They held onto some of the syntext that is offensive to non-vb types. Although I agree that they should have gotten rid of it since it's basically a new language vs vb6 anyway. Hay, at least they got rid of "Set".
E=mc2 -> BOOM
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Who says programmers are not religious. This is such an old debate and very tiresome. If you are basing your ability on the language you use it's a very poor crutch indeed. I don't care if you are coding in JavaScript or cobal, vb3 or c#, a professional programmer writes good solid code, no matter what the language. My point was simply that there are more jobs for c# people then vb people, at least in my experience, so I was encouraging a newbie to take up c#, not to start this same old stupid debate.
E=mc2 -> BOOM
Now you started it! I said nothing! Perhaps you should reply to the previous poster instead? :rolleyes:
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I just entered the world of the .Net framework (specifically VB.Net) and was surprised at the steep learning curve when coming from VB6. At first I was able to notice similarities and start working on new projects right away but I keep running into walls that frustrate me and it's making me hate .Net! I'm sure that it's all due to a lack of knowledge. I used to make use of the winsock control in VB6 for many of my implementations but in VB .Net everything just seems OVERCOMPLICATED! So I want to take a step back and start at the basics, can anyone recommend a good (free) book or tutorial? I have some JAVA experience so I'm not at a total loss when it comes to understanding classes, constructors, methods, inheritance, overriding, overloading etc. but it's things like Delegates, Operators, Interfaces and all the other mumbo jumbo that are new to me that knocks me of my horse. If anyone knows where's a good place to start, let me in! Kind Regards
you can't forget something you never knew...
And you'll finally realize how overly (and needlessly) complicated most languages are. Clear concise syntax with APIs made with a clear sense of programmer usability are a rarity. Python seems to get this right more than any other language. From Bruce Eckel, author of Thinking in Java and Thinking in C++
Bruce Eckel wrote:
With every other language I've had to deal with, it's always felt like the designers were saying, "Yes, we're trying to make your life easier with this language, but these other things are more important." With Python, it has always felt like the designers were saying, "We're trying to make your life easier, and that's it. Making your life easier is the thing that we're not compromising on."
They say you can hold seven plus or minus two pieces of information in your mind. I can't remember how to open files in Java. I've written chapters on it. I've done it a bunch of times, but it's too many steps. And when I actually analyze it, I realize these are just silly design decisions that they made. Even if they insisted on using the Decorator pattern in java.io, they should have had a convenience constructor for opening files simply. Because we open files all the time, but nobody can remember how. It is too much information to hold in your mind. The other issue is the effect of an interruption. If you are really deep into doing something and you have an interruption, it's quite a number of minutes before you can get back into that deeply focused state. With programming, imagine you're flowing along. You're thinking, "I know this, and I know this, and I know this," and you are putting things together. And then all of a sudden you run into something like, "I have to open a file and read in the lines." All the clutter in the code you have to write to do that in Java can interrupt the flow of your work. Another number that used to be bandied about is that programmers can produce an average of ten working lines of code per day. Say I open up a file and read in all the lines. In Java, I've probably already used up my ten working lines of code for that day. In Python, I can do it in one line. I can say, "for line in file('filename').readlines():," and then I'm ready to process the lines. And I can remember that one liner off the top of my head, so I can just really flow with that. Python's minimal clutter also helps when I'm reading somebody else's code. I'm not tripping over verbose syntax and idioms. "
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Albert Einstein. wrote:
You will be much more marketable if you bite the bullet and learn C# at this point. Just remember you have to put ; after everything and use curly brackets.
The difference between languages is more than just syntax and semi-colons. The cultural difference is what really draws a distinction. VBers are associated with the attitude of "I don't care why or how it works, it just works, and I can use it in my app." C++ers are associated with "I don't care if I can use it in my app, I just want to know how it works and how elegantly it uses abstruse design patterns." C#ers fall somewhere in between (depending on whether they come from a VB, C++, or Java background). The clunkiness of VB is a minor reason why so many people hate it.
:josh: My WPF Blog[^]
Josh Smith wrote:
C++ers are associated with "I don't care if I can use it in my app, I just want to know how it works and how elegantly it uses abstruse design patterns."
Well, I'd say that's crap. Most C++ers are more concerned about speed, memory, and programming efficiency than elegance, but if you can do it elegantly, then more the better. At least that's my attitude. C# is the next VB - it will make you lazy and not care about what you're doing, and you think you know C/C++, because you can use ; and {}. VB still has a place - it's called disposable software. :-D I still write quick little utilities and database conversions in VB6, because I can get them done in 20 minutes.
- S 50 cups of coffee and you know it's on!
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LOL - I would almost advocate that, if only to force using .NET stuff instead of VB6 legacy garbage that was included due to the whining of some people scared of change. But, it's probably easier to move from VB6 to VB.NET, they legacy stuff is all in the visualbasic namespace, I believe. So, it's easy to cut out.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
This thread wasn't suppose to turn out as a C# vs. VB debate but from what I've seen C# and the way it works looks similar to java, (to my in-experienced eyes anyway) Thanks, I'll consider the C# route, only wanted VB because thats the direction my employer is pushing me in. I'll try pushing back! Is it fair to say that a C# programmer will pick up VB faster than a VB programmer will pick up C#?
you can't forget something you never knew...
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This thread wasn't suppose to turn out as a C# vs. VB debate but from what I've seen C# and the way it works looks similar to java, (to my in-experienced eyes anyway) Thanks, I'll consider the C# route, only wanted VB because thats the direction my employer is pushing me in. I'll try pushing back! Is it fair to say that a C# programmer will pick up VB faster than a VB programmer will pick up C#?
you can't forget something you never knew...
evilnoodle wrote:
Is it fair to say that a C# programmer will pick up VB faster than a VB programmer will pick up C#?
No, not at all. In both cases, it's the same language and different syntax. VB is harder in some ways, at least I think it is. Is this a method call, or an array lookup ? Dim i as int = thingy(5)
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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Who says programmers are not religious. This is such an old debate and very tiresome. If you are basing your ability on the language you use it's a very poor crutch indeed. I don't care if you are coding in JavaScript or cobal, vb3 or c#, a professional programmer writes good solid code, no matter what the language. My point was simply that there are more jobs for c# people then vb people, at least in my experience, so I was encouraging a newbie to take up c#, not to start this same old stupid debate.
E=mc2 -> BOOM
Albert Einstein. wrote:
a professional programmer writes good solid code, no matter what the language.
That is true. It's also true that a far smaller percentage of people who use VB6 fit this definition than perhaps any other language.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
