Should I bother getting certified??
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I've just entered the last leg of my journey through academia, for the time being. Oh yeah - only two semesters left and I get a nifty piece of paper that fits oh so well in a frame on my wall, that says I am a Computer Scientist.:-D:-D My question is should I even bother getting Microsoft certified, or just rely on my intern programming experience(.NET,C#,little bits of some 'old' stuff) to get my foot in the door? I know y'all will have some useful information and maybe some advice for a budding dev:cool:. Thanks in advance.
An American football fan - Go Seahawks! Lil Turtle
I have to disagree with these guys. I had been writing code professionally, on and off, since the days of VB3.0, Access 1.0, and Crystal Reports 1.0. I could NOT get a full-time developer job. I got my MCAD (Microsoft Certified Application Developer) certification and within less than a week got a job offer at nearly $80k in Charlotte, NC. I can't say that the same would happen for you, but I can say that it was the best $8k I EVER spent! I made that back in less than 3 months! I went from $20/hr being the entire IT group for a GE Manufacturing Facility and 2 distribution centers to a full time VB.NET programming job as a mid-level developer at $38.50/hr. Right now, I am a full-time ASP.NET developer for a smaller company with benefits! I doubled my salary by getting the cert! :cool: I have suggested getting the cert to SEVERAL people!
Jim Evans Microsoft Certified Application Developer.NET
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It really depends on the company. A small place would probably offer the best opportunity. I read recently that the best place to start out, in any career, is not in the big city, where you would be just another recent grad. The smaller markets offer a chance to get in and start gaining experience and making a name for yourself.
only two letters away from being an asset
I just started programming for a small company in central Louisiana a few months ago, with no degree and somewhat limited experience. I've been coding since day one on some of their internal apps, and have been updating some of the existing websites the company had developed. Although you will start out at low pay, the smaller companies are the ones that are more willing to let you dive right in, which gives you a chance to prove yourself right away. The experience I've gained over the last 3 months is worth several times the salary they're paying me. -- modified at 10:26 Thursday 17th August, 2006
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I've just entered the last leg of my journey through academia, for the time being. Oh yeah - only two semesters left and I get a nifty piece of paper that fits oh so well in a frame on my wall, that says I am a Computer Scientist.:-D:-D My question is should I even bother getting Microsoft certified, or just rely on my intern programming experience(.NET,C#,little bits of some 'old' stuff) to get my foot in the door? I know y'all will have some useful information and maybe some advice for a budding dev:cool:. Thanks in advance.
An American football fan - Go Seahawks! Lil Turtle
Certification doesnt mean much....Try to get some hands on experience somewhere. I had a friend who got out of school and ca
Pablo www.aes4you.com
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Right on, Right on. Thanks.
An American football fan - Go Seahawks! Lil Turtle
Just to put in my 2 cents...I graduated college with a degree in Management but did take a few programming courses. My first job out of college was an entry level programmer for a small company. Best move I ever made. I stayed there for 3 years and moved onto a much bigger company for much more money and an entirely different type of experience. After working for my second company, I was offered a position from my first employer as a lead developer for slightly less pay but with the opportunity to work from home. I took the job and the experience I have had, and now am pursuing my masters in software engineering (may as well have some official degree related to computers). I've been working from home for a year now and doing better than some who have been with their companies for over 10 years. Even after 5 years, I still consider myself to be a bit of newbie; not because of lack of experience, only because of what there is out to still learn. Go whereever can offer you the best experience and opportunity to learn....then move on to your dream job!
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, burger in one hand, drink in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO......What a ride!"
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Just to put in my 2 cents...I graduated college with a degree in Management but did take a few programming courses. My first job out of college was an entry level programmer for a small company. Best move I ever made. I stayed there for 3 years and moved onto a much bigger company for much more money and an entirely different type of experience. After working for my second company, I was offered a position from my first employer as a lead developer for slightly less pay but with the opportunity to work from home. I took the job and the experience I have had, and now am pursuing my masters in software engineering (may as well have some official degree related to computers). I've been working from home for a year now and doing better than some who have been with their companies for over 10 years. Even after 5 years, I still consider myself to be a bit of newbie; not because of lack of experience, only because of what there is out to still learn. Go whereever can offer you the best experience and opportunity to learn....then move on to your dream job!
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, burger in one hand, drink in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO......What a ride!"
Now this is the kind of response I was looking for. No sugar coating just an honest experience and a good attitude. Thanks for the insight. Ride on brother!
An American football fan - Go Seahawks! Lil Turtle
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Just to put in my 2 cents...I graduated college with a degree in Management but did take a few programming courses. My first job out of college was an entry level programmer for a small company. Best move I ever made. I stayed there for 3 years and moved onto a much bigger company for much more money and an entirely different type of experience. After working for my second company, I was offered a position from my first employer as a lead developer for slightly less pay but with the opportunity to work from home. I took the job and the experience I have had, and now am pursuing my masters in software engineering (may as well have some official degree related to computers). I've been working from home for a year now and doing better than some who have been with their companies for over 10 years. Even after 5 years, I still consider myself to be a bit of newbie; not because of lack of experience, only because of what there is out to still learn. Go whereever can offer you the best experience and opportunity to learn....then move on to your dream job!
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, burger in one hand, drink in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO......What a ride!"
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Just to put in my 2 cents...I graduated college with a degree in Management but did take a few programming courses. My first job out of college was an entry level programmer for a small company. Best move I ever made. I stayed there for 3 years and moved onto a much bigger company for much more money and an entirely different type of experience. After working for my second company, I was offered a position from my first employer as a lead developer for slightly less pay but with the opportunity to work from home. I took the job and the experience I have had, and now am pursuing my masters in software engineering (may as well have some official degree related to computers). I've been working from home for a year now and doing better than some who have been with their companies for over 10 years. Even after 5 years, I still consider myself to be a bit of newbie; not because of lack of experience, only because of what there is out to still learn. Go whereever can offer you the best experience and opportunity to learn....then move on to your dream job!
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, burger in one hand, drink in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO......What a ride!"
Finally i would like to add a word on this. Certifications do have their value. even if they dont guarantee that u get a well paying job, u will get great amount of knowledge learnings, while studying for the exam. myself, did not hav a chance to work on web services or assemblies. but when i took the microsoft certification, i had to study them, and i got a good idea about those stuff. it helped me immensely during my next job interview. so , knowledge gained never goes waste. good luck to u . regards prashanth
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It's fashion those days, I see that a lot of companies ask for certificacions, but there are not only MS ones, you have other certs very helpfull. Sun, Oracle, PMI, etc... I am MCAD (3 exams from MS) and I swear, anyone can make it, even without knowing, so I assume if I were an employer I wouldn't take too much seriously a certification everyone can do with just so little effort. But I insist, it's fashion those days to ask for certifications. In my personal experience it got me a job since they asked me, are you at least MCP (1 exam)? And when a said Yes, they told me: Good, cause we are hiring MCP and plus. So... in some cases it can be usefull I think, but it does not mean that you know something. :~
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I've just entered the last leg of my journey through academia, for the time being. Oh yeah - only two semesters left and I get a nifty piece of paper that fits oh so well in a frame on my wall, that says I am a Computer Scientist.:-D:-D My question is should I even bother getting Microsoft certified, or just rely on my intern programming experience(.NET,C#,little bits of some 'old' stuff) to get my foot in the door? I know y'all will have some useful information and maybe some advice for a budding dev:cool:. Thanks in advance.
An American football fan - Go Seahawks! Lil Turtle
Like all programming questions - it depends. As you can probably see from most of the replies, everyone here is very scared that you might have an easier path to the top than they had - true human nature. My 2c worth: Small Company: 1. You will get a lot more exposure to different technologies - this can be good or bad - you might end up maintaining Excel or Access applications because this is what pays the bills - not good for a scientist:) 2. You will be exposed (whether you want to or not) to the whole life cycle: meet the client, do some spec work, help on servers, do network troubleshooting etc etc - I know this will kill the purist developers, but these are useful skills 3. Asking for more bucks might be difficult - smaller company, smaller budgets 4. Certification is of less use here 5. Being a big fish in small pond can be nice - i.e. extra time off, flexible hours, no inane company policies, nice atmosphere to work in - on the other hand, if your boss is a b@st@trd, the confined environment means he can make your life hell. 6. Expect to work on at least 8 to 10 projects at once :) 7. Expect litle or no opportunity for formal education - the hated certs! 8. You can also do your own thing - this might be good or bad - you will get dumped into the big-time and will have to swim - small companies are also a lot less structured with regards to the dev process Big Companies 1. Will probably lump you into 1 team where you will be working on whatever the team is working on 2. No life cycle stuff here - you get instructions from the team lead and he tells you what to do - which may or may not be the best way (unless you work for someone like thoughtworks) 3. Asking for more bucks - depends on company policy - they will be required to do salary reviews on a regular basis 4. Small fish in a big pond - you decide 5. Certification is of more use here - these guys love paper work and they might require x number of certs to keep partnership status and the like 6. You might only be tied to one project (forever) - in some cases you will have to leave to gain additional exposure 7. Depending on HR policy you will get a chance to cert 8. Forget doing your own thing - dress code, coding standards, e-mail policies the whole schebang A wildcard idea: Stuff working for someone else - get a few mates and some beer - think up the next incredible idea, do the startup thing and retire when you are 30! CP being a hardcore dev spot - the "inmates" seem to forget that dev's do not operate in a vacuum - ot
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I've just entered the last leg of my journey through academia, for the time being. Oh yeah - only two semesters left and I get a nifty piece of paper that fits oh so well in a frame on my wall, that says I am a Computer Scientist.:-D:-D My question is should I even bother getting Microsoft certified, or just rely on my intern programming experience(.NET,C#,little bits of some 'old' stuff) to get my foot in the door? I know y'all will have some useful information and maybe some advice for a budding dev:cool:. Thanks in advance.
An American football fan - Go Seahawks! Lil Turtle
In my experience it's not worth the money. I'm self taught and have no degree whatsoever. My first programming job only paid £13k (about $24k) but it was a job, right?. The important thing was that it was a small company and they let me get stuck in right from day one. A few years later I thought that getting certified would help me move into a better (and higher paid) job but the only comment ever made about it was 'Oh I see you're an MCSD' :wtf: The absolutley most important thing is experience. 8 years in and i'm in my dream job (the only thing that could make it better is more working from home). 'Drawing on my fine command of the English language, I said nothing. ' Robert Benchley (1889 - 1945)
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Just to put in my 2 cents...I graduated college with a degree in Management but did take a few programming courses. My first job out of college was an entry level programmer for a small company. Best move I ever made. I stayed there for 3 years and moved onto a much bigger company for much more money and an entirely different type of experience. After working for my second company, I was offered a position from my first employer as a lead developer for slightly less pay but with the opportunity to work from home. I took the job and the experience I have had, and now am pursuing my masters in software engineering (may as well have some official degree related to computers). I've been working from home for a year now and doing better than some who have been with their companies for over 10 years. Even after 5 years, I still consider myself to be a bit of newbie; not because of lack of experience, only because of what there is out to still learn. Go whereever can offer you the best experience and opportunity to learn....then move on to your dream job!
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, burger in one hand, drink in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO......What a ride!"
I reckon the best environment to start is public sector / government, because you learn quickly as you get thrown straight in the deep end. After a couple of years at this you'll know exactly which path your after because these type of jobs throw loads of work from different angles at you. then, specialisation is the key, pick an area and get really good at it, follow it up with contracting and go after the money. More money = more gadgets, more socialising, in short more to spend on enjoying the journey of life. Heck we all start and end at the same places, its how you get there which is the interesting part. the one to watch will be .net 3, winfx, vista, whatever they want to call it. its me that is
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Like all programming questions - it depends. As you can probably see from most of the replies, everyone here is very scared that you might have an easier path to the top than they had - true human nature. My 2c worth: Small Company: 1. You will get a lot more exposure to different technologies - this can be good or bad - you might end up maintaining Excel or Access applications because this is what pays the bills - not good for a scientist:) 2. You will be exposed (whether you want to or not) to the whole life cycle: meet the client, do some spec work, help on servers, do network troubleshooting etc etc - I know this will kill the purist developers, but these are useful skills 3. Asking for more bucks might be difficult - smaller company, smaller budgets 4. Certification is of less use here 5. Being a big fish in small pond can be nice - i.e. extra time off, flexible hours, no inane company policies, nice atmosphere to work in - on the other hand, if your boss is a b@st@trd, the confined environment means he can make your life hell. 6. Expect to work on at least 8 to 10 projects at once :) 7. Expect litle or no opportunity for formal education - the hated certs! 8. You can also do your own thing - this might be good or bad - you will get dumped into the big-time and will have to swim - small companies are also a lot less structured with regards to the dev process Big Companies 1. Will probably lump you into 1 team where you will be working on whatever the team is working on 2. No life cycle stuff here - you get instructions from the team lead and he tells you what to do - which may or may not be the best way (unless you work for someone like thoughtworks) 3. Asking for more bucks - depends on company policy - they will be required to do salary reviews on a regular basis 4. Small fish in a big pond - you decide 5. Certification is of more use here - these guys love paper work and they might require x number of certs to keep partnership status and the like 6. You might only be tied to one project (forever) - in some cases you will have to leave to gain additional exposure 7. Depending on HR policy you will get a chance to cert 8. Forget doing your own thing - dress code, coding standards, e-mail policies the whole schebang A wildcard idea: Stuff working for someone else - get a few mates and some beer - think up the next incredible idea, do the startup thing and retire when you are 30! CP being a hardcore dev spot - the "inmates" seem to forget that dev's do not operate in a vacuum - ot
Very well put. This is an unbiased look at both sides of the river so to speak. I appreciate your candor, and will take this into consideration. Everyone here at CP who has replied to my query has given me much to think on, and as I have a year left to graduation I now have plenty to mull over. Thanks again for the info.
An American football fan - Go Seahawks! Lil Turtle
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I've been working with a mid-sized corporation writing web applications and maintaining and/or updating existing code for about two years now. I still know next nothing compared to a guru, but I love the fact that I can still learn new nuances and tricks every day. Do you reckon that I should concentrate on a single language that I'm familiar with or learn a little about many? I'm getting almost competant with ASP.NET/C# at my present internship. Thanks by the way for the advice, I pretty much figured that if you can't walk the walk no amount of paper will land you a dream job even entry level.
An American football fan - Go Seahawks! Lil Turtle
Lil Turtle wrote:
Do you reckon that I should concentrate on a single language that I'm familiar with or learn a little about many?
If you're fairly new to programming stick to one language for a while until you're comfortable enough with the key concepts. But eventually you will find you need to learn several.
Kevin
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I've just entered the last leg of my journey through academia, for the time being. Oh yeah - only two semesters left and I get a nifty piece of paper that fits oh so well in a frame on my wall, that says I am a Computer Scientist.:-D:-D My question is should I even bother getting Microsoft certified, or just rely on my intern programming experience(.NET,C#,little bits of some 'old' stuff) to get my foot in the door? I know y'all will have some useful information and maybe some advice for a budding dev:cool:. Thanks in advance.
An American football fan - Go Seahawks! Lil Turtle
It really depends. I've been with three companies since I graduated in 1995. Two don't/didn't care at all about certs and one did. The one that did was a consulting company. Also keep in mind, if you get the MS cert and interview with a Java shop, they likely won't care about the MS cert...and vice versa. I guess the safe bet is that if you can afford to get the certs, it couldn't hurt to have them.
- HaleRazor ____________ Always try to have a positive impact on those around you. There is too much selfishness in the world, and it is not that hard to be selfless.