Vista: Do you blame anyone, and if so, who? [modified]
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[or should that be "whom"?] The media have made Vista bashing - more accurately, Vista timetable bashing - almost a reflex action in the same way you say "um" or "er" to fill in gaps of sentences. But I'm wondering: Do you care? Has it affected you materially or strategically? And if you are looking to point the finger who are you pointing it at - the developers, the middle managers, the marketers, or the guys at the top? I was just trying to imagine what it would be like to be a dev working on Vista and be in a position of constantly having to defend your work when it's not even been released yet. I was wondering if this would be demoralising (why bother...) or motivating (this will shut them up!). -- modified at 22:36 Wednesday 16th August, 2006
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
Has it affected you materially or strategically?
I think it's had more of an emotional effect on me, really; causing all sorts of psychosomatic oddities.
Chris Maunder wrote:
And if you are looking to point the finger who are you pointing it at - the developers, the middle managers, the marketers, or the guys at the top?
ya know, Chris, I gotta tell ya... I really have to blame myself on this one -- it's time to belly up to the bar and take matters into my own hands, and if it means taking the fall for Vista's delays, then by all means, so be it. In the end, I'll be a better man. Be strong, Chris... be strong. :cool: um... i can really care less ;)
~Nitron.
ññòòïðïðB A
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[or should that be "whom"?] The media have made Vista bashing - more accurately, Vista timetable bashing - almost a reflex action in the same way you say "um" or "er" to fill in gaps of sentences. But I'm wondering: Do you care? Has it affected you materially or strategically? And if you are looking to point the finger who are you pointing it at - the developers, the middle managers, the marketers, or the guys at the top? I was just trying to imagine what it would be like to be a dev working on Vista and be in a position of constantly having to defend your work when it's not even been released yet. I was wondering if this would be demoralising (why bother...) or motivating (this will shut them up!). -- modified at 22:36 Wednesday 16th August, 2006
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Well, unless my work takes me there I doubt I'll be using any of the new features of Vista, so I can wait. I'm still waiting to see what becomes of OGL on it before I go and burn down MS campus.
Jeremy Falcon
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[or should that be "whom"?] The media have made Vista bashing - more accurately, Vista timetable bashing - almost a reflex action in the same way you say "um" or "er" to fill in gaps of sentences. But I'm wondering: Do you care? Has it affected you materially or strategically? And if you are looking to point the finger who are you pointing it at - the developers, the middle managers, the marketers, or the guys at the top? I was just trying to imagine what it would be like to be a dev working on Vista and be in a position of constantly having to defend your work when it's not even been released yet. I was wondering if this would be demoralising (why bother...) or motivating (this will shut them up!). -- modified at 22:36 Wednesday 16th August, 2006
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
There's just not enough room in this post to express my apathy regarding this entire issue. Vista has neat and groovy new eye candy and some tweaks, but really doesn't bring any significant new functionality to the party. Consequently, they can take their time shipping it as I won't upgrade until a situation requires it or I buy a pre-installed box. My main box and writing laptop still runs w2k. My primary studio box runs XP (at gunpoint, since some of my recording software demanded it). The new laptop has XP only because that's what shipped with it. I have nothing against new versions of Windows, but I just can't get excited about upgrading when each new version does little more than move all the icons to different locations. As for timetable bashing, that's a recurring event everytime the release an OS. Vista is just the latest round. Yawn.
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
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[or should that be "whom"?] The media have made Vista bashing - more accurately, Vista timetable bashing - almost a reflex action in the same way you say "um" or "er" to fill in gaps of sentences. But I'm wondering: Do you care? Has it affected you materially or strategically? And if you are looking to point the finger who are you pointing it at - the developers, the middle managers, the marketers, or the guys at the top? I was just trying to imagine what it would be like to be a dev working on Vista and be in a position of constantly having to defend your work when it's not even been released yet. I was wondering if this would be demoralising (why bother...) or motivating (this will shut them up!). -- modified at 22:36 Wednesday 16th August, 2006
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
I think it's great for everyone. Microsoft is learning a valuable lesson (late in the ball-game but better than never). Consumers are learning to be patient and of their own accord may have decided to learn more about Vista because of the delays. I get it in a subscription but as with most things Microsoft. I'll be very slow to recommend it to my clients. I'll advise most of them to wait as long as they can before going to it. But reality happens and some of them are already running the beta. GRRRRR!
I only read cp for the articles.
Iron Speed Designer MVP
Check out my 7 Part Series on Networking[^] -
[or should that be "whom"?] The media have made Vista bashing - more accurately, Vista timetable bashing - almost a reflex action in the same way you say "um" or "er" to fill in gaps of sentences. But I'm wondering: Do you care? Has it affected you materially or strategically? And if you are looking to point the finger who are you pointing it at - the developers, the middle managers, the marketers, or the guys at the top? I was just trying to imagine what it would be like to be a dev working on Vista and be in a position of constantly having to defend your work when it's not even been released yet. I was wondering if this would be demoralising (why bother...) or motivating (this will shut them up!). -- modified at 22:36 Wednesday 16th August, 2006
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Personally, I don't care. Microsoft has never delivered an operating system on time. I think that the Windows ME *torture* was because of slipping deadlines of Windows 2000. Atleast, they should have given free upgrades to Windows 2000 for all the *victims* of the Windows ME ad campaign. To defend the development team for slipping deadlines would be going too much. If MS really intended to release it last year, they have slipped by quite a lot. That is not a record to defend. But, I don't believe that they ever intended to release it last year. They *want* the constant sniping and media attention and the controversy. But, the pressure of unviable deadlines on the development team shows up in the quality of their finished products. I have no reason yet to think that Vista would fare any better(in regards to security holes and bugs) than any of their previous versions. Thomas
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There's just not enough room in this post to express my apathy regarding this entire issue. Vista has neat and groovy new eye candy and some tweaks, but really doesn't bring any significant new functionality to the party. Consequently, they can take their time shipping it as I won't upgrade until a situation requires it or I buy a pre-installed box. My main box and writing laptop still runs w2k. My primary studio box runs XP (at gunpoint, since some of my recording software demanded it). The new laptop has XP only because that's what shipped with it. I have nothing against new versions of Windows, but I just can't get excited about upgrading when each new version does little more than move all the icons to different locations. As for timetable bashing, that's a recurring event everytime the release an OS. Vista is just the latest round. Yawn.
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
Mine! I saw it first!
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
There's just not enough room in this post to express my apathy regarding this entire issue - Christopher Duncan
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[or should that be "whom"?] The media have made Vista bashing - more accurately, Vista timetable bashing - almost a reflex action in the same way you say "um" or "er" to fill in gaps of sentences. But I'm wondering: Do you care? Has it affected you materially or strategically? And if you are looking to point the finger who are you pointing it at - the developers, the middle managers, the marketers, or the guys at the top? I was just trying to imagine what it would be like to be a dev working on Vista and be in a position of constantly having to defend your work when it's not even been released yet. I was wondering if this would be demoralising (why bother...) or motivating (this will shut them up!). -- modified at 22:36 Wednesday 16th August, 2006
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
I agree with the guy who said that most people whining are people who have no idea what it means to write software. And for me personally, I'd rather they ship it when it works. It's just an OS, for goodness sakes. I used W2000 for years after XP came out. My life didn't crumble, my popularity with the opposite sex didn't plunge to record lows, ( I didn't need to buy a new PC to run the new OS ), in short, it was fine.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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[or should that be "whom"?] The media have made Vista bashing - more accurately, Vista timetable bashing - almost a reflex action in the same way you say "um" or "er" to fill in gaps of sentences. But I'm wondering: Do you care? Has it affected you materially or strategically? And if you are looking to point the finger who are you pointing it at - the developers, the middle managers, the marketers, or the guys at the top? I was just trying to imagine what it would be like to be a dev working on Vista and be in a position of constantly having to defend your work when it's not even been released yet. I was wondering if this would be demoralising (why bother...) or motivating (this will shut them up!). -- modified at 22:36 Wednesday 16th August, 2006
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Seems to me that a big part of the problem was too many "visionaries" promising silly, but flashy (and relatively hard to develop), features with very little solid reasoning of why businesses need Vista versus a solid XP service pack 3. Ultimately, the state of Vista betrays the state of Microsoft itself. It is unfocused and badly managed at the highest levels and often appears more concerned at being big than in actually serving its customers and stockholders. The sorry state of Visual Studio 2005 is but another example of this. (Disbanding the IE team then putting it back together is probably an even better example.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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[or should that be "whom"?] The media have made Vista bashing - more accurately, Vista timetable bashing - almost a reflex action in the same way you say "um" or "er" to fill in gaps of sentences. But I'm wondering: Do you care? Has it affected you materially or strategically? And if you are looking to point the finger who are you pointing it at - the developers, the middle managers, the marketers, or the guys at the top? I was just trying to imagine what it would be like to be a dev working on Vista and be in a position of constantly having to defend your work when it's not even been released yet. I was wondering if this would be demoralising (why bother...) or motivating (this will shut them up!). -- modified at 22:36 Wednesday 16th August, 2006
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
I like the wait. XP has only gotten better in the years and as cool as Vista is I don't want to learn a new OS every year. Calm down everybody... its not like they aren't going to release it.
Matt Newman
Even the very best tools in the hands of an idiot will produce something of little or no value. - Chris Meech on Idiots -
Well, unless my work takes me there I doubt I'll be using any of the new features of Vista, so I can wait. I'm still waiting to see what becomes of OGL on it before I go and burn down MS campus.
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
I'm still waiting to see what becomes of OGL on it before I go and burn down MS campus.
OGL is already handled. MS allowed the driver ICD to access the interface. nVidia already has their OGL interface ready.
Direct3D and OpenGL now use common window manager interfaces To allocate system resources and send rendering commands to the GPU hardware The Windows Vista CD does not include ICDs Driver with ICD must be downloaded from web site the same as Windows XP Windows Vista Beta2 ICD available today From NVIDIA at www.nvidia.com Drivers will soon be available from ATI – watch this space Microsoft has a layered OpenGL over D3D for basic functionality Only used if no ICD is presentfrom http://www.khronos.org/developers/library/siggraph2006/OpenGL_BOF/[^] see: NVIDIA_-_OpenGL_on_Vista.ppt_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
I'm still waiting to see what becomes of OGL on it before I go and burn down MS campus.
OGL is already handled. MS allowed the driver ICD to access the interface. nVidia already has their OGL interface ready.
Direct3D and OpenGL now use common window manager interfaces To allocate system resources and send rendering commands to the GPU hardware The Windows Vista CD does not include ICDs Driver with ICD must be downloaded from web site the same as Windows XP Windows Vista Beta2 ICD available today From NVIDIA at www.nvidia.com Drivers will soon be available from ATI – watch this space Microsoft has a layered OpenGL over D3D for basic functionality Only used if no ICD is presentfrom http://www.khronos.org/developers/library/siggraph2006/OpenGL_BOF/[^] see: NVIDIA_-_OpenGL_on_Vista.ppt_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Think this ended up under the wrong post, but still good to know, since I use OGL and hope to for the foreseeable future.
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
Direct3D and OpenGL now use common window manager interfaces To allocate system resources and send rendering commands to the GPU hardware
Hmm, sounds slower already. :)
- S 50 cups of coffee and you know it's on!
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[or should that be "whom"?] The media have made Vista bashing - more accurately, Vista timetable bashing - almost a reflex action in the same way you say "um" or "er" to fill in gaps of sentences. But I'm wondering: Do you care? Has it affected you materially or strategically? And if you are looking to point the finger who are you pointing it at - the developers, the middle managers, the marketers, or the guys at the top? I was just trying to imagine what it would be like to be a dev working on Vista and be in a position of constantly having to defend your work when it's not even been released yet. I was wondering if this would be demoralising (why bother...) or motivating (this will shut them up!). -- modified at 22:36 Wednesday 16th August, 2006
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
I don't care but it's definitely Microsoft's fault. They simply haven't put decent management strategies in place to ensure that software comes out of the other end of the process. For the amount of time, effort and money they have put into it they sure haven't ended up with very much :doh:
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[or should that be "whom"?] The media have made Vista bashing - more accurately, Vista timetable bashing - almost a reflex action in the same way you say "um" or "er" to fill in gaps of sentences. But I'm wondering: Do you care? Has it affected you materially or strategically? And if you are looking to point the finger who are you pointing it at - the developers, the middle managers, the marketers, or the guys at the top? I was just trying to imagine what it would be like to be a dev working on Vista and be in a position of constantly having to defend your work when it's not even been released yet. I was wondering if this would be demoralising (why bother...) or motivating (this will shut them up!). -- modified at 22:36 Wednesday 16th August, 2006
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
I really do not care, I have Vista running on one of my machines and it did not cost me anything. They want to wait another year, that is fine, just as long as they keep free betas ;)
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Anti-Spam idea - Help!
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I believe the criticism seems to come mostly from people who know nothing about the process of developing software. The criticism seems to have the quality of sniping, and just whining and moaning, when they really don't have an appreciation of what it takes to deliver such a large product.
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
So you are saying it is OK to a: drop many, many features and b: miss many, many deadlines because it is a tough project? Surely this only shows that the people making Vista "know nothing about the process of developing software."* I think we should expect more from Microsoft, not offer them excuses and sympathy. * Obviously that is unfair and dramatic but they have made a balls up of their software development process. You cannot deny dropped features (dropped to try and get Vista back on track) and slipped dates.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland FeedHenry needs you
eh, stop bugging me about it, give it a couple of days, see what happens.
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[or should that be "whom"?] The media have made Vista bashing - more accurately, Vista timetable bashing - almost a reflex action in the same way you say "um" or "er" to fill in gaps of sentences. But I'm wondering: Do you care? Has it affected you materially or strategically? And if you are looking to point the finger who are you pointing it at - the developers, the middle managers, the marketers, or the guys at the top? I was just trying to imagine what it would be like to be a dev working on Vista and be in a position of constantly having to defend your work when it's not even been released yet. I was wondering if this would be demoralising (why bother...) or motivating (this will shut them up!). -- modified at 22:36 Wednesday 16th August, 2006
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
I couldn't care less about Vista. Never have I been so disinterested in the launch of a new Windows O/S - I was probably more excited about Windows ME FFS! :) However, being pragmatic, I will install a copy at some point (under VMWare) and make sure my apps work OK. MS will force this on people via new PCs, so it can't be ignored.
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[or should that be "whom"?] The media have made Vista bashing - more accurately, Vista timetable bashing - almost a reflex action in the same way you say "um" or "er" to fill in gaps of sentences. But I'm wondering: Do you care? Has it affected you materially or strategically? And if you are looking to point the finger who are you pointing it at - the developers, the middle managers, the marketers, or the guys at the top? I was just trying to imagine what it would be like to be a dev working on Vista and be in a position of constantly having to defend your work when it's not even been released yet. I was wondering if this would be demoralising (why bother...) or motivating (this will shut them up!). -- modified at 22:36 Wednesday 16th August, 2006
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
Do you care?
No - I use W2k at work, WinXP/OS X at home and I'm quite happy with all of them - I'd rather use XP at work so that I could use ClearType, but that's all. They're all stable enough for me, I don't get problems with virii/trojans/worms. So, I just plain don't care about Vista! I'm more excited about Leopard[^] - and I'm not particularly excited about that with what I've heard.
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[or should that be "whom"?] The media have made Vista bashing - more accurately, Vista timetable bashing - almost a reflex action in the same way you say "um" or "er" to fill in gaps of sentences. But I'm wondering: Do you care? Has it affected you materially or strategically? And if you are looking to point the finger who are you pointing it at - the developers, the middle managers, the marketers, or the guys at the top? I was just trying to imagine what it would be like to be a dev working on Vista and be in a position of constantly having to defend your work when it's not even been released yet. I was wondering if this would be demoralising (why bother...) or motivating (this will shut them up!). -- modified at 22:36 Wednesday 16th August, 2006
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
I think Microsoft are caught in the same trap as the 3G manufacturers 5 yers ago - they need to keep new products rolling out. Elaine :rose:
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I like the wait. XP has only gotten better in the years and as cool as Vista is I don't want to learn a new OS every year. Calm down everybody... its not like they aren't going to release it.
Matt Newman
Even the very best tools in the hands of an idiot will produce something of little or no value. - Chris Meech on IdiotsIt's been patched, but it hasn't **any better.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001**
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Mine! I saw it first!
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
There's just not enough room in this post to express my apathy regarding this entire issue - Christopher Duncan
Chris Maunder wrote:
Mine! I saw it first!
:laugh:
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
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Seems to me that a big part of the problem was too many "visionaries" promising silly, but flashy (and relatively hard to develop), features with very little solid reasoning of why businesses need Vista versus a solid XP service pack 3. Ultimately, the state of Vista betrays the state of Microsoft itself. It is unfocused and badly managed at the highest levels and often appears more concerned at being big than in actually serving its customers and stockholders. The sorry state of Visual Studio 2005 is but another example of this. (Disbanding the IE team then putting it back together is probably an even better example.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
