Wake Up Kerala !!!
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Thomas George wrote:
Now, even if the students used KDE instead of Windows GUI, used OpenOffice instead of Microsoft Office, learned some programming language using the Linux platform, it would not compromise their future in the technology business.
Yeah, but it puts them into a rigid Microsoft-is-evil Open-Source-is-good mindset. That may be damaging to their futures.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)I don't think most people will buy into that argument, since they might be using Windows at home or at Internet cafes. Microsoft is mainstream -- it is difficult to sideline it with a policy that pushes Linux into schools. In fact, most teachers might end up bitching to their students how they would have been better off using Windows in school -- because they might be using Linux for the first time to teach their students :) I still think that the issue is insignificant. Most people will not ditch good products because of adverse propoganda; Most people won't use bad products because of favourable propoganda. There will always be a few idiots, who will assume fanatical positions. Thomas
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http://himabinduvejella.blogspot.com/2006/09/keralas-inclination-towords-linux.html#links[^]
"Aim to go where U have never been B4 and Strive to achieve it" http://groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/dotnetforfreshers http://himabinduvejella.blogspot.com
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Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)Most of the time people go to school for learning basic stuff. School isn’t meant to tell you about technology. So if they set up systems that helps people learn more about basics of OS, it’s great. If Microsoft is banned, it is banned. What technology will people work on doesn’t matter when you are in school. More often than not, the stuff you learnt in school is going to be outdated by the time you start working. So how does it matter? So even if the Government is being narrow minded, I don’t think it matters as much. Comment by AbhisheBK — September 15, 2006 @ 2:12 pm
Abhishek The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself. --Mark Twain
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Classic example of controlling the young ones minds instead of setting them free to explore things themselves. Classic Pink Floyed song comes to mind "All in all we're just another brick in the wall"
Steady As She Goes!
Monty2 wrote:
"All in all we're just another brick in the wall"
Cool song that one :cool:
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New) -
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)What’s ironic is that, just as RMS is losing popularity with most of the open source world, he’s gaining it in Kerala. And for all his principles of freedom, that’s the one thing that he’s helped to take away from Kerala’s school children - the freedom of choice. It is as simple as that and I agree completely!
"We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the internet, we know this is not true." -- Professor Robert Silensky
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Posting a blog link that links to a dead link about something that, frankly, I don't have a clue what its talking about, is pretty lame, IMO. At least give me some context as to why I should even read that link. And of course, posting "my reply" and "my reply to your reply" links, well, that's even more pathetic. A round of 1's for everyone except Taka. Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithWell, a double dumb-one on you!" to parapahrase a great Trek movie.
"We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the internet, we know this is not true." -- Professor Robert Silensky
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Most of the time people go to school for learning basic stuff. School isn’t meant to tell you about technology. So if they set up systems that helps people learn more about basics of OS, it’s great. If Microsoft is banned, it is banned. What technology will people work on doesn’t matter when you are in school. More often than not, the stuff you learnt in school is going to be outdated by the time you start working. So how does it matter? So even if the Government is being narrow minded, I don’t think it matters as much. Comment by AbhisheBK — September 15, 2006 @ 2:12 pm
Abhishek The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself. --Mark Twain
AbhishekBK wrote:
More often than not, the stuff you learnt in school is going to be outdated by the time you start working. So how does it matter?
what're you talking about, I still use some of the skills I picked up from using trash80's and apple2's in gradeschool. Lift up, insert papers underneath, st down. They won't go anywhere now. :rolleyes:
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What’s ironic is that, just as RMS is losing popularity with most of the open source world, he’s gaining it in Kerala. And for all his principles of freedom, that’s the one thing that he’s helped to take away from Kerala’s school children - the freedom of choice. It is as simple as that and I agree completely!
"We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the internet, we know this is not true." -- Professor Robert Silensky
Jerry Hammond wrote:
It is as simple as that and I agree completely!
Thank you. I was a little confused about all the 1-votes I got.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New) -
I don't think most people will buy into that argument, since they might be using Windows at home or at Internet cafes. Microsoft is mainstream -- it is difficult to sideline it with a policy that pushes Linux into schools. In fact, most teachers might end up bitching to their students how they would have been better off using Windows in school -- because they might be using Linux for the first time to teach their students :) I still think that the issue is insignificant. Most people will not ditch good products because of adverse propoganda; Most people won't use bad products because of favourable propoganda. There will always be a few idiots, who will assume fanatical positions. Thomas
Thomas George wrote:
In fact, most teachers might end up bitching to their students how they would have been better off using Windows in school
A very possible scenario :-)
Thomas George wrote:
There will always be a few idiots, who will assume fanatical positions.
That's the worrying aspect though.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New) -
Thomas George wrote:
In fact, most teachers might end up bitching to their students how they would have been better off using Windows in school
A very possible scenario :-)
Thomas George wrote:
There will always be a few idiots, who will assume fanatical positions.
That's the worrying aspect though.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
That's the worrying aspect though
Usually, they are such a small segment. The positions they assume are *bad for them, not for the society at large*. Personally, I think that the fanatics will get ignored. I am absolutely pissed about the state of higher education in our state. It has deteriorated significantly from the time, I was in college. The issue in Kerala today is that students can go through a whole graduate course in computer science, graduate with distinction, and still not know how to write and compile a "Hello World!" program. This is not the case with the better colleges, but certainly with the self-financing colleges. These colleges cannot compete with the private companies on salaries, and have very bad staff -- usually junior staff who are there only because they failed to get placed any where else. I am also concerned about wearing uniforms in Engineering Colleges. Why? You are training engineers. They can't decide what to wear or what. If the message that you convey is "You can't even choose your clothes", what kind of "out-of-the-box thinkers" will those institutions ever produce. Of course, there will be a few who escape this mindset with their own initiative. But, the idea in education today in our state seems to be "don't think!". Thomas
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Classic example of controlling the young ones minds instead of setting them free to explore things themselves. Classic Pink Floyed song comes to mind "All in all we're just another brick in the wall"
Steady As She Goes!
Religion and cadre based organizations has been guilty of this (Catechism, Madrasas, Communist Party study classes, RSS swayam sevaks and what not) from *God knows when* :), but no one seems to have a problem with this. We can probably just do the same thing we do with religion/caste. If parents use Linux, the children gets Linux. If parents use Windows, their children get Windows. Maybe, some reservations in schools and public sector jobs based on what OS they/parents use. If you are of mixed parentage, you get whichever gives you better benefits. :)
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
That's the worrying aspect though
Usually, they are such a small segment. The positions they assume are *bad for them, not for the society at large*. Personally, I think that the fanatics will get ignored. I am absolutely pissed about the state of higher education in our state. It has deteriorated significantly from the time, I was in college. The issue in Kerala today is that students can go through a whole graduate course in computer science, graduate with distinction, and still not know how to write and compile a "Hello World!" program. This is not the case with the better colleges, but certainly with the self-financing colleges. These colleges cannot compete with the private companies on salaries, and have very bad staff -- usually junior staff who are there only because they failed to get placed any where else. I am also concerned about wearing uniforms in Engineering Colleges. Why? You are training engineers. They can't decide what to wear or what. If the message that you convey is "You can't even choose your clothes", what kind of "out-of-the-box thinkers" will those institutions ever produce. Of course, there will be a few who escape this mindset with their own initiative. But, the idea in education today in our state seems to be "don't think!". Thomas
Thomas George wrote:
These colleges cannot compete with the private companies on salaries, and have very bad staff -- usually junior staff who are there only because they failed to get placed any where else.
100% true, Thomas. The only people who take teaching jobs are those that suck so bad they can't land up a software developer job in a country with a million job openings.
Thomas George wrote:
I am also concerned about wearing uniforms in Engineering Colleges. Why? You are training engineers. They can't decide what to wear or what. If the message that you convey is "You can't even choose your clothes", what kind of "out-of-the-box thinkers" will those institutions ever produce.
Excellent point. Another similar issue is how many software companies in Trivandrum (technopark) insist on men wearing ties. That's really absurd.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New) -
http://himabinduvejella.blogspot.com/2006/09/keralas-inclination-towords-linux.html#links[^]
"Aim to go where U have never been B4 and Strive to achieve it" http://groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/dotnetforfreshers http://himabinduvejella.blogspot.com
I actually had tried to discuss the same subject [^] before some days.Only Thomas George was available at that time.:) According to me this can be a threat for microsoft. It can't be denied that people who had once attracted to the complexities and possibilities of linux and BSDs will never come back to microsoft technologies. Before 5 years programming was taught only in proffessional courses ,where now programming in C and C++ are being taught in schools itself.We are hearing the news of school students clearing micosoft and java certifications. Bigggies realizes the importance of IT education in schools.Microsoft has already spending lots of money for their IT@school project.Similarly Novell,redhat and microsoft has started giving part time projects to college students.And already there is a strong anti-microsoft feeling gearing up. in Kerala,it's the left government's decision ,since they oppose everything which associated to American capitalism(They had recently banned Coke and Pepsi).But more than this we can't ignore this race by the biggies of canvassing students to their respective technology:) -- modified at 14:30 Friday 15th September, 2006
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Marc Clifton wrote:
Posting a blog link that links to a dead link about something that, frankly, I don't have a clue what its talking about, is pretty lame, IMO.
We can't always talk about happenings in North America, Marc :-)
Marc Clifton wrote:
And of course, posting "my reply" and "my reply to your reply" links, well, that's even more pathetic.
My reply's subject clearly indicated what I was talking about (hence the subject change). Anyway, here's my blog post in its entirety so people don't have to open that link. The Government of Kerala (my state in India) has passed a ruling that public schools in the state will base their computer curriculum entirely on Linux. Initially the idea was to give schools the option to choose between Microsoft and Linux, but later this was narrowed down to limiting any Microsoft related topics to that of migrating to Linux from Windows based operating systems. The state is currently ruled by a leftist party, and the leaders of the party are strong proponents of open source software, specially after a couple of visits by Richard Stallman in the last few years. Now, personally, I feel that Linux is an excellent choice as an OS platform in high schools. It comes with an entire set of development tools, and while Microsoft gives away free editions of its compiler IDEs (the Express editions), they are limited in functionality, and the C++ version of the Express editions does not even support a resource editor. Also, the Linux OS comes with complete source code, and as a student, there can be nothing more exciting than to dig into the OS source code. And lastly, there are no installation costs for Linux (compared to Microsoft, even accounting for academic discounts). And in schools, there won’t be much of a maintenance cost either, because every school will have a few Linux geeks who’d help with maintaining the school network. But, I still strongly disapprove of the decision to totally ban Microsoft software from schools. Kids should still have a choice, and they need to know that there are other options outside of Linux. By restricting them forcibly to a particular OS, without their explicit (or implicit for that matter) permission, you are virtually diminishing their chances of going into a successful professional career based on Microsoft products. The smarter geekier kids would obviously find their own way, and make their own choices, and would p
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Kids should still have a choice, and they need to know that there are other options outside of Linux
tilldate ,students of the academia(atleast in india) were not exposed to anything other than microsoft.
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
RMS is losing popularity
It's the topic for another debate. The fact is ,Kerala lost one golden period of IT boom in india(Despite of having all the advantages of education and social acheivements).So this may be the new brand of kerala. Even without any help form academic sides students from Kerala had contributed to projects like mono. And I heard that Richard Stallman is visiting kerala atleast once in a week:~ -- modified at 14:29 Friday 15th September, 2006
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The link that you provided in the blog is not working. I will give my point of view, though. In Kerala, public schools are a total mess barring very a very few. A very large percentage of students study in private schools. Many public schools, mostly remote ones, do not have proper roofs, let alone computer rooms. Teachers practise how to avoid action by authorities while they practise "absenteeism". My point is that Open Source v/s Microsoft is not a major issue in these schools -- they don't have computers! In fact, they have so many other ills plaguing them. Let us assume for a moment that all public schools in Kerala got the requisite infrastructure, and good teachers. Now, even if the students used KDE instead of Windows GUI, used OpenOffice instead of Microsoft Office, learned some programming language using the Linux platform, it would not compromise their future in the technology business. After all, this is not graduate computer science education that we are talking about -- it is high school. Universities can still install Windows :) . . . and with such a vast majority of the computers outside the school running Windows, I would not assume that the students would hear about Windows and work on PCs running Windows before they ever attend a job interview. I think that it is better to have a common policy than let some local teacher dictate what is being taught. After all, in all other sujects taught in school, the curriculum is chosen centrally. In short, I think that people are making a moutain out of a mole.
The system is nt only for government schools.It's going to be followed by all aided and unaided schools which would not have been facing financial problem fo affording good labs.Also government school also would get computers(many of them already have) according to the news.If I guess correctly,initilly microsoft was ready to provide the lab facility also.But the previous government had to turn down microsoft offer and bring in free software too ,due to the opposition of leftist teachers unions. The irony is this was the same wing of the party which opposed computerization some years before.
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The system is nt only for government schools.It's going to be followed by all aided and unaided schools which would not have been facing financial problem fo affording good labs.Also government school also would get computers(many of them already have) according to the news.If I guess correctly,initilly microsoft was ready to provide the lab facility also.But the previous government had to turn down microsoft offer and bring in free software too ,due to the opposition of leftist teachers unions. The irony is this was the same wing of the party which opposed computerization some years before.
I realize that getting into schools can be critical for Microsoft; but, I still believe that schools are not the only way children are exposed to computers. Students are clearing Microsoft certification not because they were taught in schools. I have my own opinion about teaching programming in schools. Our education system has lost all sense of priority. Many students clearing the 10th standard examination from government schools cannot read or write properly (I saw a few such students and could not believe it). They are not taught how to operate a bank account, how our country, state works, their rights, duties etc. and, in addition, some civic sense like destroying public/private property because you don't agree with someone else is not right etc. Priority should be to give children the basic tools that enable them to be successful in daily life. I believe that basic accounting is far more important than programming. General computer learning in schools should include using application programs like editors, spreadsheets, databases, Internet etc; but a programming in C/C++ course is certainly an overkill. What percentage of students will this help? . . . and why are they learning complex languages without learning computing fundamentals. Whether Microsoft succeeds in the long run or not will be determined solely by their performance. It is hard to see them lose, if they get their act together. I still think that proprietary v/s open source is an important discussion. Thomas
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I realize that getting into schools can be critical for Microsoft; but, I still believe that schools are not the only way children are exposed to computers. Students are clearing Microsoft certification not because they were taught in schools. I have my own opinion about teaching programming in schools. Our education system has lost all sense of priority. Many students clearing the 10th standard examination from government schools cannot read or write properly (I saw a few such students and could not believe it). They are not taught how to operate a bank account, how our country, state works, their rights, duties etc. and, in addition, some civic sense like destroying public/private property because you don't agree with someone else is not right etc. Priority should be to give children the basic tools that enable them to be successful in daily life. I believe that basic accounting is far more important than programming. General computer learning in schools should include using application programs like editors, spreadsheets, databases, Internet etc; but a programming in C/C++ course is certainly an overkill. What percentage of students will this help? . . . and why are they learning complex languages without learning computing fundamentals. Whether Microsoft succeeds in the long run or not will be determined solely by their performance. It is hard to see them lose, if they get their act together. I still think that proprietary v/s open source is an important discussion. Thomas
Thomas George wrote:
but a programming in C/C++ course is certainly an overkill
I also thought like that,but changed my mind when I saw some high school students brilliantly solve their mathematics home works prgrammatically.Ofcourse, they are the best students of their class. If you think ,it's not difficult for them to make algorithms to solve their mathematics problems.Initially they might have started off with simple alogorithms like adding numbers.With practice they started solving the area of circle ,volume of cylinder alogorithmically. It's not that tough for student's to learn the syntaxes of C or C++ .And bright student's will definitely make use of it. In my school days I have studied lot of physics,history and geography outside the texts which didn't pay me.Similarly lot's of students are forced to study subjects.Some like it and some may not. Also it's not true to blame government school teachers as in most cases they are better than the private counterparts.Government school teachers are being recruited through public service tests and interviews while private schools appoint staffs by weighing the money bag.
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