Almost a year...
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Polite Programmer wrote:
Jerry Ritcher
Isn't it Jeffrey ?
Polite Programmer wrote:
Jeff Prosie
Prosise ?
Polite Programmer wrote:
Paul
the Apostle ? Surely if you're learning Win32, Charles Petzold deserves a mention ? :P
Polite Programmer wrote:
What's wrong where's wrong? You learning process was similar?
Although there's plenty of APIs that I can recall the parameters to, from heaps of use, I don't regard memorising parameter lists to be a good use of my time. I guess you're using VC6 ? You need to buy Visual Assist, it makes intellisense in VC6 useful, and you'll never need to remember those parameter lists again.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Well, why not Charlz... Moreover, I'm using VC.NET 2003. Any further advice?
Polite Programmer
More Object Oriented then C#
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Its more than a year that I'm trying to learn programming windows both ways, SDK and MFC but I still find myself very much infant... Though I admit I have'nt actively coded much becuase I have to pursue my studies but its quite furstrating... It seems to me I can never never be a proficient windows programmer like Jerry Ritcher, Jeff Prosie or Paul... My style goes like this... Suppose I'm working on clipboard. I will open up MSDN read the relevant sections and take appropiate notes out of it. Then will try to build something minimal but working. Will be modifying it until it works the way I want it to be... meanwhile, MSDN lies besides me and I find myself consulting every now and then. Even I forget what parameters WM_SETFONT message takes.... Again I've to resort to MSDN for it. What's wrong where's wrong? You learning process was similar?
Polite Programmer
More Object Oriented then C#
Polite Programmer wrote:
meanwhile, MSDN lies besides me and I find myself consulting every now and then. Even I forget what parameters WM_SETFONT message takes.... Again I've to resort to MSDN for it.
Um. That's what every programmer does. Being a good programmer is not about remembering API calls and parameters. It is about knowing how and when to apply techniques, it's about writing solid code that is well designed and tested. I've been programming for 18 years, I still use MSDN regular for parameters and the like. Heck, one of the reasons Microsoft invented intellisense was because their programmers kept forgetting what to type next.
Polite Programmer wrote:
What's wrong where's wrong? You learning process was similar?
Just keep reading code, reading about development techniques and most of all keep writing code. It'll take you more than a year to be anywhere near as good as the people you list.
Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
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Its more than a year that I'm trying to learn programming windows both ways, SDK and MFC but I still find myself very much infant... Though I admit I have'nt actively coded much becuase I have to pursue my studies but its quite furstrating... It seems to me I can never never be a proficient windows programmer like Jerry Ritcher, Jeff Prosie or Paul... My style goes like this... Suppose I'm working on clipboard. I will open up MSDN read the relevant sections and take appropiate notes out of it. Then will try to build something minimal but working. Will be modifying it until it works the way I want it to be... meanwhile, MSDN lies besides me and I find myself consulting every now and then. Even I forget what parameters WM_SETFONT message takes.... Again I've to resort to MSDN for it. What's wrong where's wrong? You learning process was similar?
Polite Programmer
More Object Oriented then C#
My general rule of thumb is to look up a function in the documentation every time I call it, even if I think I know it. I don't always do it as much as I should but still often the documentation for APIs I've been using for years surprise me and I learn something new. I’ll admit when I first started learning my MSDN sessions were dangerously recursive: I’d look up function “a” which would refer to “b” which would refer to “c”, and so on. That said, once you get past the “infinite” recursion phase, you’ll still consult MSDN often: if you don’t you’re doing something wrong.
Steve
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Polite Programmer wrote:
meanwhile, MSDN lies besides me and I find myself consulting every now and then. Even I forget what parameters WM_SETFONT message takes.... Again I've to resort to MSDN for it.
Um. That's what every programmer does. Being a good programmer is not about remembering API calls and parameters. It is about knowing how and when to apply techniques, it's about writing solid code that is well designed and tested. I've been programming for 18 years, I still use MSDN regular for parameters and the like. Heck, one of the reasons Microsoft invented intellisense was because their programmers kept forgetting what to type next.
Polite Programmer wrote:
What's wrong where's wrong? You learning process was similar?
Just keep reading code, reading about development techniques and most of all keep writing code. It'll take you more than a year to be anywhere near as good as the people you list.
Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
The biggest boost i got when trying to learn windows programming was when i stopped trying to memorize everything, and instead tried to learn the larger concepts behind each function, and their use.
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Its more than a year that I'm trying to learn programming windows both ways, SDK and MFC but I still find myself very much infant... Though I admit I have'nt actively coded much becuase I have to pursue my studies but its quite furstrating... It seems to me I can never never be a proficient windows programmer like Jerry Ritcher, Jeff Prosie or Paul... My style goes like this... Suppose I'm working on clipboard. I will open up MSDN read the relevant sections and take appropiate notes out of it. Then will try to build something minimal but working. Will be modifying it until it works the way I want it to be... meanwhile, MSDN lies besides me and I find myself consulting every now and then. Even I forget what parameters WM_SETFONT message takes.... Again I've to resort to MSDN for it. What's wrong where's wrong? You learning process was similar?
Polite Programmer
More Object Oriented then C#
To add on, knowing how to code something is easy. All you need is to refer to websites like codeproject where you can easily find your solutions most of the time. The difficult part is actually how to design and code it in a way that best suit the scenario you are in. In another words, effectively, erm.. or efficiently?:~ Whatever. :)
Weiye Chen Time may have changed my life, but my heart remains the same to you... Time may have changed my heart, but my love for you never change...
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Its more than a year that I'm trying to learn programming windows both ways, SDK and MFC but I still find myself very much infant... Though I admit I have'nt actively coded much becuase I have to pursue my studies but its quite furstrating... It seems to me I can never never be a proficient windows programmer like Jerry Ritcher, Jeff Prosie or Paul... My style goes like this... Suppose I'm working on clipboard. I will open up MSDN read the relevant sections and take appropiate notes out of it. Then will try to build something minimal but working. Will be modifying it until it works the way I want it to be... meanwhile, MSDN lies besides me and I find myself consulting every now and then. Even I forget what parameters WM_SETFONT message takes.... Again I've to resort to MSDN for it. What's wrong where's wrong? You learning process was similar?
Polite Programmer
More Object Oriented then C#
7 Years on since leaving uni and about 10 years since I wrote my first line of code I am still doing ... its good practise, there is a alot to know these days. Don't expect to have it all off the cuff,
Regards Ray "Je Suis Mort De Rire" Blogging @ Keratoconus Watch
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Its more than a year that I'm trying to learn programming windows both ways, SDK and MFC but I still find myself very much infant... Though I admit I have'nt actively coded much becuase I have to pursue my studies but its quite furstrating... It seems to me I can never never be a proficient windows programmer like Jerry Ritcher, Jeff Prosie or Paul... My style goes like this... Suppose I'm working on clipboard. I will open up MSDN read the relevant sections and take appropiate notes out of it. Then will try to build something minimal but working. Will be modifying it until it works the way I want it to be... meanwhile, MSDN lies besides me and I find myself consulting every now and then. Even I forget what parameters WM_SETFONT message takes.... Again I've to resort to MSDN for it. What's wrong where's wrong? You learning process was similar?
Polite Programmer
More Object Oriented then C#
Do you think any of us know the parameters to evn 1 percent of the functions we use? We have to look up everything, all the time. (Or cut and paste it from another part of your code) The only thing you have to know is how to sit there for hours, looking at the same documentation, and the same code, untill you find the bug.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
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Do you think any of us know the parameters to evn 1 percent of the functions we use? We have to look up everything, all the time. (Or cut and paste it from another part of your code) The only thing you have to know is how to sit there for hours, looking at the same documentation, and the same code, untill you find the bug.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
Being a good Developer or Programmer, takes a long time, and I'm not surprised that you're still consulting documentation after a year, I still consult documentation after 15 years. It takes a great deal of patience,practice, tenacity, study, discipline, understanding and hours and hours of work to be a good developer. I found the best way to learn how to program is to read another developers code, study it , understand it, and attempt to refactor it, Improve it and re write it in your own way. That way you will get get a better unserstanding of syntax, and structure and concepts I for one have developed Notepad, Calculator in a myriad of different programming languages from C++, VB, C#, Java, VB.NET ...... and every time I learn something new, a concept that I can take forward I hang out here on codeproject because it is a great resource to have look at other developers source code, and to learn! I submit articles here, because I want my code reviewed by my peers, so I can learn something, and hopefully another developer will learn from me. A true programmer never stops learning! I have been programming (proffessionally , if that what you call it) for 15 years now, and every day I learn something new!! -- modified at 6:24 Wednesday 27th September, 2006
"a fool will not learn from a wise man, but a wise man will learn from a fool" "It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed." - Theodore Roosevelt "Success is going from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
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Being a good Developer or Programmer, takes a long time, and I'm not surprised that you're still consulting documentation after a year, I still consult documentation after 15 years. It takes a great deal of patience,practice, tenacity, study, discipline, understanding and hours and hours of work to be a good developer. I found the best way to learn how to program is to read another developers code, study it , understand it, and attempt to refactor it, Improve it and re write it in your own way. That way you will get get a better unserstanding of syntax, and structure and concepts I for one have developed Notepad, Calculator in a myriad of different programming languages from C++, VB, C#, Java, VB.NET ...... and every time I learn something new, a concept that I can take forward I hang out here on codeproject because it is a great resource to have look at other developers source code, and to learn! I submit articles here, because I want my code reviewed by my peers, so I can learn something, and hopefully another developer will learn from me. A true programmer never stops learning! I have been programming (proffessionally , if that what you call it) for 15 years now, and every day I learn something new!! -- modified at 6:24 Wednesday 27th September, 2006
"a fool will not learn from a wise man, but a wise man will learn from a fool" "It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed." - Theodore Roosevelt "Success is going from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
cykophysh39 wrote:
I found the best way to learn how to program is to read another developers code, study it , understand it, and attempt to refactor it, Improve it and re write it in your own way. That way you will get get a better unserstanding of syntax, and structure and concepts
And there are many sources, obviously the Code Project tutorials, and repositories for open-source projects such as http://sourceforge.net/[^]
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Do you think any of us know the parameters to evn 1 percent of the functions we use? We have to look up everything, all the time. (Or cut and paste it from another part of your code) The only thing you have to know is how to sit there for hours, looking at the same documentation, and the same code, untill you find the bug.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
Regarding your last post in the recent spat with Henize in the Soapbox and the advice you gave in the Hardware forum 2 days ago, I for one would be interested in seeing Code Project articles from you that address the issues (from Basic to Advanced) in device drivers and the like.
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Regarding your last post in the recent spat with Henize in the Soapbox and the advice you gave in the Hardware forum 2 days ago, I for one would be interested in seeing Code Project articles from you that address the issues (from Basic to Advanced) in device drivers and the like.
Seriously? You want me to write articles on device drivers? I am flattered! But arent there a number of articles already on CP regharding this? I had a look some time back and they looked at first glance informative and well written. If you really want to know driver though, dont lok to CP, buy Walter Oneys book, Programming the Windows Driver Model. Best 50$ you will ever spend.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
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Its more than a year that I'm trying to learn programming windows both ways, SDK and MFC but I still find myself very much infant... Though I admit I have'nt actively coded much becuase I have to pursue my studies but its quite furstrating... It seems to me I can never never be a proficient windows programmer like Jerry Ritcher, Jeff Prosie or Paul... My style goes like this... Suppose I'm working on clipboard. I will open up MSDN read the relevant sections and take appropiate notes out of it. Then will try to build something minimal but working. Will be modifying it until it works the way I want it to be... meanwhile, MSDN lies besides me and I find myself consulting every now and then. Even I forget what parameters WM_SETFONT message takes.... Again I've to resort to MSDN for it. What's wrong where's wrong? You learning process was similar?
Polite Programmer
More Object Oriented then C#
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Seriously? You want me to write articles on device drivers? I am flattered! But arent there a number of articles already on CP regharding this? I had a look some time back and they looked at first glance informative and well written. If you really want to know driver though, dont lok to CP, buy Walter Oneys book, Programming the Windows Driver Model. Best 50$ you will ever spend.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
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Regarding your last post in the recent spat with Henize in the Soapbox and the advice you gave in the Hardware forum 2 days ago, I for one would be interested in seeing Code Project articles from you that address the issues (from Basic to Advanced) in device drivers and the like.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Regarding your last post in the recent spat with Henize in the Soapbox and the advice you gave in the Hardware forum 2 days ago, I for one would be interested in seeing Code Project articles from you that address the issues (from Basic to Advanced) in device drivers and the like.
ME spat with who? You sure it was me? Who's Henize? Was I in the soapbox? 2 Days ago?? My Minds gone blank? I'll have to Defrag and get back to you :confused: :):cool:
"a fool will not learn from a wise man, but a wise man will learn from a fool" "It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed." - Theodore Roosevelt "Success is going from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Regarding your last post in the recent spat with Henize in the Soapbox and the advice you gave in the Hardware forum 2 days ago, I for one would be interested in seeing Code Project articles from you that address the issues (from Basic to Advanced) in device drivers and the like.
ME spat with who? You sure it was me? Who's Henize? Was I in the soapbox? 2 Days ago?? My Minds gone blank? I'll have to Defrag and get back to you :confused: :):cool:
"a fool will not learn from a wise man, but a wise man will learn from a fool" "It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed." - Theodore Roosevelt "Success is going from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
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Sounds like CP is posting at random again. R Abbots e-mail post was in response to one of mine.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
OK So I can stop thinking of Device drivers now then!! I was trying to think what device I could write a driver for!! Phew!!!;P
"a fool will not learn from a wise man, but a wise man will learn from a fool" "It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed." - Theodore Roosevelt "Success is going from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Regarding your last post in the recent spat with Henize in the Soapbox and the advice you gave in the Hardware forum 2 days ago, I for one would be interested in seeing Code Project articles from you that address the issues (from Basic to Advanced) in device drivers and the like.
ME spat with who? You sure it was me? Who's Henize? Was I in the soapbox? 2 Days ago?? My Minds gone blank? I'll have to Defrag and get back to you :confused: :):cool:
"a fool will not learn from a wise man, but a wise man will learn from a fool" "It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed." - Theodore Roosevelt "Success is going from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
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cykophysh39, my comment to you, which was in response to your excellent comments above, was locations to find open source projects for studying purposes. The spat I referred to was here [^].
Ok Not Guilty :-) For open source project I gues you could try www.sourceforge.net. I have had junior developers that I pointed to www.planetsourcecode.com and of course on here, there are plenty of talented individuals on this site, who write some really good stuff!, I have learnt alot from this site alone
"a fool will not learn from a wise man, but a wise man will learn from a fool" "It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed." - Theodore Roosevelt "Success is going from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
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Well, why not Charlz... Moreover, I'm using VC.NET 2003. Any further advice?
Polite Programmer
More Object Oriented then C#
OK, then intellisense should help you out a fair bit, although you still need to look up all those constants. I still need to do the same, for a lot of the APIs I don't use so often.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog