Moonlighting
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As long as it's not a conflict-of-interest situation, how could it be enforced?
"Approved Workmen Are Not Ashamed" - 2 Timothy 2:15
"Judge not by the eye but by the heart." - Native American Proverb
DavidCrow wrote:
As long as it's not a conflict-of-interest situation, how could it be enforced?
Well, if the company has a "no moonlighting" policy that you sign at employment, if they ever find out, even if it's not a conflict of interest (which is impossible to disprove as much as prove) then you could be fired without cause, simply for violating the employment terms. Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
What's your company's position on moonlighting? Does your company have one? Do they explicitly exclude you from doing any independent work? Do they encourage it, feeling that it helps diversify your talents? Just curious. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithThey supposedly have rights to anything I develop while employed here. I ignore that and do some work on the side, which is neither in the same industry or even the same languages I use at work. I'm pretty certain it'll never hold up if they try to claim my work. Even if they could find out what I'm doing and prove it.
BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wright -
What's your company's position on moonlighting? Does your company have one? Do they explicitly exclude you from doing any independent work? Do they encourage it, feeling that it helps diversify your talents? Just curious. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithThe company discourage everything in any way independent - moonlighting included :sigh:
'--8<------------------------ Ex Datis: Duncan Jones Merrion Computing Ltd
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What's your company's position on moonlighting? Does your company have one? Do they explicitly exclude you from doing any independent work? Do they encourage it, feeling that it helps diversify your talents? Just curious. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithLast time I moonlighted a co-worker managed to get photos and stick them up on the company intranet. Never been so embarassed in me loif... Oh wait. You said moonlighting. As in work. Uh... :~ My employer doesn't mind so long as it doesn't impact my day job or compete with any other projects in the company. Actually they rather encourage active external participation.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland FeedHenry needs you
eh, stop bugging me about it, give it a couple of days, see what happens.
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What's your company's position on moonlighting? Does your company have one? Do they explicitly exclude you from doing any independent work? Do they encourage it, feeling that it helps diversify your talents? Just curious. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithI will not work at a place that has too wide (far-reaching) an IP agreement, so any moonlighting that takes place is my business alone. So none of that
if you dream it on Easter Sunday at 2:48AM in the morning, the company owns itcrap. My current agreement allows me to both protect existing work/projects (completed or otherwise), and excludes any activity not related to the current business involvement. Besides that, what is the company paying you for - an average of ~8 to 10 hours of work a day for 5 days a week, or 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? There is a reason we have the term crunch time - it is for extended working hours above and beyond the normal working hours (and effort). These normal hours are what you are being paid for, otherwise we would always be expected to be working non-stop weekends, evenings and holidays. (In the past, I have actually had IP aggrements modified to my benefit.) If you use the contractor's math of equating salary to hourly rate, an rate of $40/hour for an average 8-hour day comes out to about $83K (8 hours/day times 5 workdays/week times 52 weeks/year). If they want all 24-hours of your work/effort/ideas and you make ~$80K now, they better be expecting to be you more than$240K/year. If you are getting paid $80K/year, either the company owns ideas conceived during that 8-hour daily period, or they are getting a really sweet deal by paying you only ~$13/hour :).-=- James
If you think it costs a lot to do it right, just wait until you find out how much it costs to do it wrong!
Avoid driving a vehicle taller than you and remember that Professional Driver on Closed Course does not mean your Dumb Ass on a Public Road!
DeleteFXPFiles & CheckFavorites (Please rate this post!) -
I will not work at a place that has too wide (far-reaching) an IP agreement, so any moonlighting that takes place is my business alone. So none of that
if you dream it on Easter Sunday at 2:48AM in the morning, the company owns itcrap. My current agreement allows me to both protect existing work/projects (completed or otherwise), and excludes any activity not related to the current business involvement. Besides that, what is the company paying you for - an average of ~8 to 10 hours of work a day for 5 days a week, or 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? There is a reason we have the term crunch time - it is for extended working hours above and beyond the normal working hours (and effort). These normal hours are what you are being paid for, otherwise we would always be expected to be working non-stop weekends, evenings and holidays. (In the past, I have actually had IP aggrements modified to my benefit.) If you use the contractor's math of equating salary to hourly rate, an rate of $40/hour for an average 8-hour day comes out to about $83K (8 hours/day times 5 workdays/week times 52 weeks/year). If they want all 24-hours of your work/effort/ideas and you make ~$80K now, they better be expecting to be you more than$240K/year. If you are getting paid $80K/year, either the company owns ideas conceived during that 8-hour daily period, or they are getting a really sweet deal by paying you only ~$13/hour :).-=- James
If you think it costs a lot to do it right, just wait until you find out how much it costs to do it wrong!
Avoid driving a vehicle taller than you and remember that Professional Driver on Closed Course does not mean your Dumb Ass on a Public Road!
DeleteFXPFiles & CheckFavorites (Please rate this post!)James R. Twine wrote:
If you are getting paid $80K/year, either the company owns ideas conceived during that 8-hour daily period, or they are getting a really sweet deal by paying you only ~$13/hour
Well said. And since the company that was interested in hiring me as an employee does not offer me the option to continue my relationship with my longterm clients, I have had to turn them down. So, consultant I remain, hehehe. Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
What's your company's position on moonlighting? Does your company have one? Do they explicitly exclude you from doing any independent work? Do they encourage it, feeling that it helps diversify your talents? Just curious. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithThe contract I signed explicitly stated that they only made a claim to work done for them with their systems. Anything I do outside of "work" is mine and mine alone.
Using the GridView is like trying to explain to someone else how to move a third person's hands in order to tie your shoelaces for you. -Chris Maunder
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I'm consulting, everything I do is moonlighting for someone :)
only two letters away from being an asset
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Our policy is to disclose our moonlighting to our supervisor. Then he has to watch an make sure your not doing other work on company time. I think they put a few extra internet filters inplace for your desk IP address. (only heard rumors of this)
Marc Clifton wrote:
Do they encourage it, feeling that it helps diversify your talents?
My compay only counts offical classes for diversifying your talents. Anything you learn from a book, internet, OJT, or moonlighting doesn't count (i.e. they need documentation for CMMI) I did inform my supervisor I'm not qualified to do the stuff I've been doing the last 25 years becasue I don't have a software or engineering degree and have never had a class on the languages I'm using. I offered to go to any programming class they offer in Las Vegas. ;) Joe Q
When my compnay started on CMM (as it was then) I was chosen to develop and give the training on Configuration Management. This caused a problem with the documentation, because at the end I was the only software engineer that hadn't taken the CM training course - they didn't have the 100% they wanted. THey were contacting me to see a) why I hadn't taken the course and b) when I could take the course. After stopping laughing, I explained why they had no record of me taking the course and pointed out that I had actually attended over a dozen CM training courses. Never heard from them again Graham
Graham My signature is not black, just a very, very dark blue
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When my compnay started on CMM (as it was then) I was chosen to develop and give the training on Configuration Management. This caused a problem with the documentation, because at the end I was the only software engineer that hadn't taken the CM training course - they didn't have the 100% they wanted. THey were contacting me to see a) why I hadn't taken the course and b) when I could take the course. After stopping laughing, I explained why they had no record of me taking the course and pointed out that I had actually attended over a dozen CM training courses. Never heard from them again Graham
Graham My signature is not black, just a very, very dark blue
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What's your company's position on moonlighting? Does your company have one? Do they explicitly exclude you from doing any independent work? Do they encourage it, feeling that it helps diversify your talents? Just curious. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithMarc Clifton wrote:
What's your company's position on moonlighting?
If it was anything related to what I do at work I'd be unemployed and in court before I got the first moonlighting pay check. If it was a second job behind a bar a couple of nights a week to help make ends meet I dont think they would have a problem
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What's your company's position on moonlighting? Does your company have one? Do they explicitly exclude you from doing any independent work? Do they encourage it, feeling that it helps diversify your talents? Just curious. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithMarc Clifton wrote:
What's your company's position on moonlighting? Does your company have one? Do they explicitly exclude you from doing any independent work? Do they encourage it, feeling that it helps diversify your talents?
A) it must not interfere with primary work B) it must be okayed with others so that it does not involve work related knowledge C) part B) must be proven.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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What's your company's position on moonlighting? Does your company have one? Do they explicitly exclude you from doing any independent work? Do they encourage it, feeling that it helps diversify your talents? Just curious. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithAs long as I prioritize them, no restrictions (and occasionally down-prioritizing them a day or two). Besides, just bragging about my employer. Their number one priority is -- sitting down? -- Quality of work. If it takes a week longer to get it right, just get it right:-D
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What's your company's position on moonlighting? Does your company have one? Do they explicitly exclude you from doing any independent work? Do they encourage it, feeling that it helps diversify your talents? Just curious. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithBeing a contractor, I have to be allowed, although there is a provision against competing development. Which I accept. But truly, they keep me busy enough that I don't think I'd have time to moonlight.
This statement is false.
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As long as I prioritize them, no restrictions (and occasionally down-prioritizing them a day or two). Besides, just bragging about my employer. Their number one priority is -- sitting down? -- Quality of work. If it takes a week longer to get it right, just get it right:-D
Are you building for external clients or people in house?
This statement is false.
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What's your company's position on moonlighting? Does your company have one? Do they explicitly exclude you from doing any independent work? Do they encourage it, feeling that it helps diversify your talents? Just curious. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
What's your company's position on moonlighting? Does your company have one? Do they explicitly exclude you from doing any independent work? Do they encourage it, feeling that it helps diversify your talents? Just curious. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithCan any company legaly stop you from it? As long as your using your computer and your software and arent exposing company information...I mean, they dont own you, your mind, or your computer...and if they do, then they better start paying ALOT more LOL
Pablo Sometimes I think there's no reason to get out of bed . . . then I feel wet, and I realize there is.
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What's your company's position on moonlighting? Does your company have one? Do they explicitly exclude you from doing any independent work? Do they encourage it, feeling that it helps diversify your talents? Just curious. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithWe encourage our employees to moonlight. The restriction is, let your employer know, at least there is no customers been "stolen". The problem is that, moonlighting WILL eventually grow into the moonlight customer phoning / email for changes and "quick" assistance during the day. This does interfere with our employees daily work. We found that several employees had to solve problems during day time secretly wich puts pressure on both employer and employee. If an arrangment is made where the employee keep the employer involved then we do not mind making the odd commitment to allow software tools and other infrstructure such as boardrooms, tel, fax, etc to be used. This helps in several ways: 1. The employee can earn some extra 2. The company get some exposure - advertising 3. The possibility of the project growing into a company solution proved viable. 4. All parties are happy !!!! if point 3 is happening, we usally have a % proffit / bonus to the employee. This comming from an ex-moonlighter, so I know how I felt at the time when I had to moonlight. Seeing both side of the picture, being there, done that, playing open cards is by far the better option. Regards Francois Kotze www.flexyware.com
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Are you building for external clients or people in house?
This statement is false.
External. But maybe I should also inform that we target forest industri and management so a week here or a month there is nothing compared to their usual timespan -- a couple of decades:)