Moonlighting
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I'm consulting, everything I do is moonlighting for someone :)
only two letters away from being an asset
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Our policy is to disclose our moonlighting to our supervisor. Then he has to watch an make sure your not doing other work on company time. I think they put a few extra internet filters inplace for your desk IP address. (only heard rumors of this)
Marc Clifton wrote:
Do they encourage it, feeling that it helps diversify your talents?
My compay only counts offical classes for diversifying your talents. Anything you learn from a book, internet, OJT, or moonlighting doesn't count (i.e. they need documentation for CMMI) I did inform my supervisor I'm not qualified to do the stuff I've been doing the last 25 years becasue I don't have a software or engineering degree and have never had a class on the languages I'm using. I offered to go to any programming class they offer in Las Vegas. ;) Joe Q
When my compnay started on CMM (as it was then) I was chosen to develop and give the training on Configuration Management. This caused a problem with the documentation, because at the end I was the only software engineer that hadn't taken the CM training course - they didn't have the 100% they wanted. THey were contacting me to see a) why I hadn't taken the course and b) when I could take the course. After stopping laughing, I explained why they had no record of me taking the course and pointed out that I had actually attended over a dozen CM training courses. Never heard from them again Graham
Graham My signature is not black, just a very, very dark blue
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When my compnay started on CMM (as it was then) I was chosen to develop and give the training on Configuration Management. This caused a problem with the documentation, because at the end I was the only software engineer that hadn't taken the CM training course - they didn't have the 100% they wanted. THey were contacting me to see a) why I hadn't taken the course and b) when I could take the course. After stopping laughing, I explained why they had no record of me taking the course and pointed out that I had actually attended over a dozen CM training courses. Never heard from them again Graham
Graham My signature is not black, just a very, very dark blue
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What's your company's position on moonlighting? Does your company have one? Do they explicitly exclude you from doing any independent work? Do they encourage it, feeling that it helps diversify your talents? Just curious. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithMarc Clifton wrote:
What's your company's position on moonlighting?
If it was anything related to what I do at work I'd be unemployed and in court before I got the first moonlighting pay check. If it was a second job behind a bar a couple of nights a week to help make ends meet I dont think they would have a problem
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What's your company's position on moonlighting? Does your company have one? Do they explicitly exclude you from doing any independent work? Do they encourage it, feeling that it helps diversify your talents? Just curious. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithMarc Clifton wrote:
What's your company's position on moonlighting? Does your company have one? Do they explicitly exclude you from doing any independent work? Do they encourage it, feeling that it helps diversify your talents?
A) it must not interfere with primary work B) it must be okayed with others so that it does not involve work related knowledge C) part B) must be proven.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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What's your company's position on moonlighting? Does your company have one? Do they explicitly exclude you from doing any independent work? Do they encourage it, feeling that it helps diversify your talents? Just curious. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithAs long as I prioritize them, no restrictions (and occasionally down-prioritizing them a day or two). Besides, just bragging about my employer. Their number one priority is -- sitting down? -- Quality of work. If it takes a week longer to get it right, just get it right:-D
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What's your company's position on moonlighting? Does your company have one? Do they explicitly exclude you from doing any independent work? Do they encourage it, feeling that it helps diversify your talents? Just curious. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithBeing a contractor, I have to be allowed, although there is a provision against competing development. Which I accept. But truly, they keep me busy enough that I don't think I'd have time to moonlight.
This statement is false.
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As long as I prioritize them, no restrictions (and occasionally down-prioritizing them a day or two). Besides, just bragging about my employer. Their number one priority is -- sitting down? -- Quality of work. If it takes a week longer to get it right, just get it right:-D
Are you building for external clients or people in house?
This statement is false.
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What's your company's position on moonlighting? Does your company have one? Do they explicitly exclude you from doing any independent work? Do they encourage it, feeling that it helps diversify your talents? Just curious. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
What's your company's position on moonlighting? Does your company have one? Do they explicitly exclude you from doing any independent work? Do they encourage it, feeling that it helps diversify your talents? Just curious. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithCan any company legaly stop you from it? As long as your using your computer and your software and arent exposing company information...I mean, they dont own you, your mind, or your computer...and if they do, then they better start paying ALOT more LOL
Pablo Sometimes I think there's no reason to get out of bed . . . then I feel wet, and I realize there is.
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What's your company's position on moonlighting? Does your company have one? Do they explicitly exclude you from doing any independent work? Do they encourage it, feeling that it helps diversify your talents? Just curious. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithWe encourage our employees to moonlight. The restriction is, let your employer know, at least there is no customers been "stolen". The problem is that, moonlighting WILL eventually grow into the moonlight customer phoning / email for changes and "quick" assistance during the day. This does interfere with our employees daily work. We found that several employees had to solve problems during day time secretly wich puts pressure on both employer and employee. If an arrangment is made where the employee keep the employer involved then we do not mind making the odd commitment to allow software tools and other infrstructure such as boardrooms, tel, fax, etc to be used. This helps in several ways: 1. The employee can earn some extra 2. The company get some exposure - advertising 3. The possibility of the project growing into a company solution proved viable. 4. All parties are happy !!!! if point 3 is happening, we usally have a % proffit / bonus to the employee. This comming from an ex-moonlighter, so I know how I felt at the time when I had to moonlight. Seeing both side of the picture, being there, done that, playing open cards is by far the better option. Regards Francois Kotze www.flexyware.com
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Are you building for external clients or people in house?
This statement is false.
External. But maybe I should also inform that we target forest industri and management so a week here or a month there is nothing compared to their usual timespan -- a couple of decades:)
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What's your company's position on moonlighting? Does your company have one? Do they explicitly exclude you from doing any independent work? Do they encourage it, feeling that it helps diversify your talents? Just curious. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithIt was don’t ask, don’t tell. The main product of my day company had one HUGE competitor. Small guys eventually killed that business line but at the time I was not a part of the mice that killed the dinosaurs. Go way back with me into the 8085/Z80 CP/M S-100 bus days. I wrote the firmware for an S100 bus disk controller PCB. (Fulcrum Computer Products OmniDisk, if anyone cares.) I then, because I know a bunch of S100 stuff, recommended my day company buy several systems containing those disk controllers for use in rack mounted embedded systems. I told Brent, my moonlighting boss, not to pay me royalties on systems sold to my day company. I did not want conflict of interest problems. I should have asked Brent for a bonus because of how I suggested he bill for the systems. (Quote a standard – high profit price – and offer a 15% discount if paid within 15 days. I put the discounted price on my PO forms, attaching his quote.) The day company NEVER paid on time. I should have asked Brent for bonus!
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What's your company's position on moonlighting? Does your company have one? Do they explicitly exclude you from doing any independent work? Do they encourage it, feeling that it helps diversify your talents? Just curious. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithThe company I work for supports it. At least, they appear to support it. I am a developer, but in my past life was a network engineer and owned my own company. So, there's a lot of times that my previous clients, who I guess still are my clients, call and need support so I do it. Plus sell them systems, configure networks, etc... the only thing my company asks is that it doesn't affect my productivity. :-D ------------------------------------------- "If stupidity got us into this mess, then how come it can't get us out of it too?"
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DavidCrow wrote:
As long as it's not a conflict-of-interest situation, how could it be enforced?
Well, if the company has a "no moonlighting" policy that you sign at employment, if they ever find out, even if it's not a conflict of interest (which is impossible to disprove as much as prove) then you could be fired without cause, simply for violating the employment terms. Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithTrue, but it depends on where you work. Here in Tennessee, it is a "right-to-work" state, so while such a provision could be put into a contract, it would be illegal here. Such a company is betting that you don't have the time or the money to fight them on this.
Andrew C. Eisenberg Nashville, TN, USA (a.k.a. Music City USA) (Yes Virginia, there are rock and roll stations in Nashville! :laugh:)