What programming language?
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Daniel Grunwald wrote:
C++/CLI is not worthless, but very valuable if you have to have to use both unmanged libraries and managed code. But it's no language for beginners - you have to know both C++ and C# before learning C++/CLI.
Well the only experince i have had about C++ CLI was someone on microsoft forums, i forget their name, but they were claiming to use C++ CLI and they ahd a blog about it, and he didnt come across as very smart.
JasonTheNewb wrote:
Well the only experince i have had about C++ CLI was someone
Take this advice from me... or not... your choice... The world is full of idiots, every shape, every size, with every bias known to man. Question, examine, think for yourself and make your own decisions. Trust, but verify! If they didn't like something for a feature that was lacking or present, etc. Look for yourself, see if you can change the settings, you might find that they just didn't know what they were talking about. And even if your own research agrees with them, you learned more by verifying what they said, rather than just parotting someone else's opinions. :)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I am wanting to learn how to program computers, and would like to know which language is best? I was thinking of Visual Basic because the simple code would be easier to write well and understand, but i understand it is not as fast as C++. J# and C++ CLI are out of the question because they are worthless from what i have read. Do you think i should get c# or VB?
It seems that every post in this thread is getting voted at least one 5. Even mine and my post really isn't that special. It's weird.
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Ansi C++ with the gcc compiler. Once you have mastered pointers and can write your own BST, Linked Lists, and sorts you may then move to a non-pointer language such as C#
On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage
It looks to me as trying to climb the mount everest and you don't even know how to walk. C++ is very difficult, especially with the pointers and dereferencing stuff. I would strongly advise something a little less error prone, like java, C# or VB. Learning from a book can make stuff a lot easier, since they usually provide samples and different excersises to work on.
WM. What about weapons of mass-construction?
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It looks to me as trying to climb the mount everest and you don't even know how to walk. C++ is very difficult, especially with the pointers and dereferencing stuff. I would strongly advise something a little less error prone, like java, C# or VB. Learning from a book can make stuff a lot easier, since they usually provide samples and different excersises to work on.
WM. What about weapons of mass-construction?
Yeah, the way people approach programming is changing. These days, it's not necessary to know how to use pointers to write a good application. Lots of people start off with languages like Java, C#, or VB and end up being decent programmers (and also make a pretty good living out of it).
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog -
I am wanting to learn how to program computers, and would like to know which language is best? I was thinking of Visual Basic because the simple code would be easier to write well and understand, but i understand it is not as fast as C++. J# and C++ CLI are out of the question because they are worthless from what i have read. Do you think i should get c# or VB?
Some of this depends on your learning style. I learn by doing; by writing actual working programs. Point being that simply learning algorithms from a book are useless to me. Other people learn this way just fine. You need to be a little introspective about your style and procede accordingly. Another aspect is what your goals are with your knowledge. Do you want to create web sites? Games? Avionics systems? That said, you may as well learn a marketable skill and that means C# or Java. I'd go with C# since that seems to be the language of choice for new projects. (Having said that, if I knew VB, I could have landed a job last week. A mind numbing, boring job, but a job nonetheless. It didn't pay great either, but more than I'm making now.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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It seems that every post in this thread is getting voted at least one 5. Even mine and my post really isn't that special. It's weird.
Bert [Otherside82] Derijckere wrote:
It seems that every post in this thread is getting voted at least one 5
my first one didn't. :) don't bother trying to figure it out... it comes, it goes... sometimes it rides the highs and lows of a rollercoaster... :)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Some of this depends on your learning style. I learn by doing; by writing actual working programs. Point being that simply learning algorithms from a book are useless to me. Other people learn this way just fine. You need to be a little introspective about your style and procede accordingly. Another aspect is what your goals are with your knowledge. Do you want to create web sites? Games? Avionics systems? That said, you may as well learn a marketable skill and that means C# or Java. I'd go with C# since that seems to be the language of choice for new projects. (Having said that, if I knew VB, I could have landed a job last week. A mind numbing, boring job, but a job nonetheless. It didn't pay great either, but more than I'm making now.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Joe Woodbury wrote:
Avionics systems?
mmmmmmmm Avionics systems. :-D
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Daniel Grunwald wrote:
you have to know both C++ and C# before learning C++/CLI.
Needn't know C#.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blogOK, you don't need to know C#, but if you don't know the .NET Framework, you'll get lost between the managed and unmanaged world.
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OK, you don't need to know C#, but if you don't know the .NET Framework, you'll get lost between the managed and unmanaged world.
Daniel Grunwald wrote:
OK, you don't need to know C#, but if you don't know the .NET Framework, you'll get lost between the managed and unmanaged world.
Well, when you start learning C#, you also learn how to use the .NET f/w. Similarly, if you are learning C++/CLI, you'd also have to learn about the CLR and the .NET classes in parallel. You have to do that for your first CLI language anyway.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog -
JasonTheNewb wrote:
J# and C++ CLI are out of the question because they are worthless from what i have read.
C++/CLI is not really worthless - but as a newbie, you won't have much use with it. If you already know Java, then J# is a good option.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blogHe he I knew you'd have already landed with a shield to protect CLI. :-D
Marquee is no more :( [My Current Status] Link2006 wrote:Let's take it outside of CP Jeremy : Please don't.I would love to see this.I'm making the popcorn already.
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He he I knew you'd have already landed with a shield to protect CLI. :-D
Marquee is no more :( [My Current Status] Link2006 wrote:Let's take it outside of CP Jeremy : Please don't.I would love to see this.I'm making the popcorn already.
VuNic wrote:
He he I knew you'd have already landed with a shield to protect CLI.
Yeah. I strongly suspect that the OP was merely trolling, but I replied anyway for the sake of other people who may read the thread :-)
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog -
Yeah, the way people approach programming is changing. These days, it's not necessary to know how to use pointers to write a good application. Lots of people start off with languages like Java, C#, or VB and end up being decent programmers (and also make a pretty good living out of it).
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blogWell to understand why I can not write a functions that swaps the value of its arguments in Java, I have to understand C pointers first. Try explaining that to someone who has no idea of pointers and you will see. I am not saying Java or C# are any worse than C/C++ as first languages, just that the C pointers should be understood sooner than later. It gives certain clarity to everything. C helped me understand OO (or its need) more than Java or C++.
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VuNic wrote:
He he I knew you'd have already landed with a shield to protect CLI.
Yeah. I strongly suspect that the OP was merely trolling, but I replied anyway for the sake of other people who may read the thread :-)
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blogNishant Sivakumar wrote:
I replied anyway for the sake of other people who may read the thread
And if someone addresses C++/CLI it implicitly means a "CC" to Nish. and you have to defend it :) otherwise it'll be helpless :sigh:
Marquee is no more :( [My Current Status] Link2006 wrote:Let's take it outside of CP Jeremy : Please don't.I would love to see this.I'm making the popcorn already.
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I am wanting to learn how to program computers, and would like to know which language is best? I was thinking of Visual Basic because the simple code would be easier to write well and understand, but i understand it is not as fast as C++. J# and C++ CLI are out of the question because they are worthless from what i have read. Do you think i should get c# or VB?
I have to agree with those who discuss algorithms and such. In college I took a programming languages class to learn the concepts. Then we would write the same program in four different languages. Once you get the logic and concepts, each language just has it's own syntax.
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Yeah, the way people approach programming is changing. These days, it's not necessary to know how to use pointers to write a good application. Lots of people start off with languages like Java, C#, or VB and end up being decent programmers (and also make a pretty good living out of it).
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blogVery true Nish. This has always been the case. I remember in the early-mid-90s it was Powerbuilder + Oracle that was the road to success. VB has always been a key language in many businesses. Today it may be C# or even SAP/Peoplesoft/Siebel. The real issue is what does he want to do. Does he want a career or does he want to code hardcore stuff like database systems, web servers, OS, drivers.
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Well to understand why I can not write a functions that swaps the value of its arguments in Java, I have to understand C pointers first. Try explaining that to someone who has no idea of pointers and you will see. I am not saying Java or C# are any worse than C/C++ as first languages, just that the C pointers should be understood sooner than later. It gives certain clarity to everything. C helped me understand OO (or its need) more than Java or C++.
Anand Vivek Srivastava wrote:
Well to understand why I can not write a functions that swaps the value of its arguments in Java, I have to understand C pointers first. Try explaining that to someone who has no idea of pointers and you will see.
I don't know about Java - but C# (ignoring unsafe compilation for the moment) developers understand value and reference semantics without necessarily having to understand how pointers work.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog -
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
I replied anyway for the sake of other people who may read the thread
And if someone addresses C++/CLI it implicitly means a "CC" to Nish. and you have to defend it :) otherwise it'll be helpless :sigh:
Marquee is no more :( [My Current Status] Link2006 wrote:Let's take it outside of CP Jeremy : Please don't.I would love to see this.I'm making the popcorn already.
VuNic wrote:
And if someone addresses C++/CLI it implicitly means a "CC" to Nish. and you have to defend it otherwise it'll be helpless
:)
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog -
I am wanting to learn how to program computers, and would like to know which language is best? I was thinking of Visual Basic because the simple code would be easier to write well and understand, but i understand it is not as fast as C++. J# and C++ CLI are out of the question because they are worthless from what i have read. Do you think i should get c# or VB?
here is how I learnt programming: BASIC -> Pascal -> Scheme -> C -> C++ -> Prolog -> Visual C++ -> Java -> Visual Basic -> JavaScript -> C# -> Python -> Ruby (Just started) But as Leckey said :
Once you get the logic and concepts, each language just has it's own syntax.
This is true for Basic, Pascal, C/C++, Java, Python and Ruby. Scheme and Prolog are totally different, they make you think in a different way too. I am trying to practice some programs in them again as they are two of my favorite languages: good for hobby programming (but not good for professional programming).
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it. -Brian Kernighan
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I am wanting to learn how to program computers, and would like to know which language is best? I was thinking of Visual Basic because the simple code would be easier to write well and understand, but i understand it is not as fast as C++. J# and C++ CLI are out of the question because they are worthless from what i have read. Do you think i should get c# or VB?
Don't worry about the language right now. Pick something and run with it. C++, Java, C#, VB.NET are best bets to create some windows apps and get your feet wet. There are tons of online resources for those languages, so you'll be able to get some good support for questions you have. I would suggest to not try to get too ambitious in the beginning. Keep things fun and concentrate on understanding what's happening before delving into too many different topics. Once you're comfortable with the basics of data structures, looping, conditions, etc. start reading books like Code Complete for a good background in software development.
BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wright -
I am wanting to learn how to program computers, and would like to know which language is best? I was thinking of Visual Basic because the simple code would be easier to write well and understand, but i understand it is not as fast as C++. J# and C++ CLI are out of the question because they are worthless from what i have read. Do you think i should get c# or VB?
I think a lot of this depends upon your reason for wanting to dive into programming. If it's a career move, then you should think in terms of what skills are most in demand in the marketplace, and of course how much the various skill sets pay. For careers, here are several major points to consider. Each path you choose will narrow your choices and help you define on your ultimate needs.
- Programmer or DBA?
- UNIX or Microsoft technologies?
- Web or client development?
Exploring both the job market as well as various web sites devoted to the major categories above will help you get a feel for what you would enjoy most, and what would be the most suited to staying gainfully employed. Once you've made those decisions, the languages and technologies will pretty much present themselves. As for differences in databases or languages, I wouldn't sweat it much. These days they're all pretty good. If you're not going after this to make a career of it, I'd do a similar decision tree based on what kinds of applications you'd like to write. Either way, starting at a high level and getting the basics outlined will get you most of the way there. Everything beyond that is just religion. :)
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com