What programming language?
-
Yeah, the way people approach programming is changing. These days, it's not necessary to know how to use pointers to write a good application. Lots of people start off with languages like Java, C#, or VB and end up being decent programmers (and also make a pretty good living out of it).
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blogWell to understand why I can not write a functions that swaps the value of its arguments in Java, I have to understand C pointers first. Try explaining that to someone who has no idea of pointers and you will see. I am not saying Java or C# are any worse than C/C++ as first languages, just that the C pointers should be understood sooner than later. It gives certain clarity to everything. C helped me understand OO (or its need) more than Java or C++.
-
VuNic wrote:
He he I knew you'd have already landed with a shield to protect CLI.
Yeah. I strongly suspect that the OP was merely trolling, but I replied anyway for the sake of other people who may read the thread :-)
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blogNishant Sivakumar wrote:
I replied anyway for the sake of other people who may read the thread
And if someone addresses C++/CLI it implicitly means a "CC" to Nish. and you have to defend it :) otherwise it'll be helpless :sigh:
Marquee is no more :( [My Current Status] Link2006 wrote:Let's take it outside of CP Jeremy : Please don't.I would love to see this.I'm making the popcorn already.
-
I am wanting to learn how to program computers, and would like to know which language is best? I was thinking of Visual Basic because the simple code would be easier to write well and understand, but i understand it is not as fast as C++. J# and C++ CLI are out of the question because they are worthless from what i have read. Do you think i should get c# or VB?
I have to agree with those who discuss algorithms and such. In college I took a programming languages class to learn the concepts. Then we would write the same program in four different languages. Once you get the logic and concepts, each language just has it's own syntax.
-
Yeah, the way people approach programming is changing. These days, it's not necessary to know how to use pointers to write a good application. Lots of people start off with languages like Java, C#, or VB and end up being decent programmers (and also make a pretty good living out of it).
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blogVery true Nish. This has always been the case. I remember in the early-mid-90s it was Powerbuilder + Oracle that was the road to success. VB has always been a key language in many businesses. Today it may be C# or even SAP/Peoplesoft/Siebel. The real issue is what does he want to do. Does he want a career or does he want to code hardcore stuff like database systems, web servers, OS, drivers.
-
Well to understand why I can not write a functions that swaps the value of its arguments in Java, I have to understand C pointers first. Try explaining that to someone who has no idea of pointers and you will see. I am not saying Java or C# are any worse than C/C++ as first languages, just that the C pointers should be understood sooner than later. It gives certain clarity to everything. C helped me understand OO (or its need) more than Java or C++.
Anand Vivek Srivastava wrote:
Well to understand why I can not write a functions that swaps the value of its arguments in Java, I have to understand C pointers first. Try explaining that to someone who has no idea of pointers and you will see.
I don't know about Java - but C# (ignoring unsafe compilation for the moment) developers understand value and reference semantics without necessarily having to understand how pointers work.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog -
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
I replied anyway for the sake of other people who may read the thread
And if someone addresses C++/CLI it implicitly means a "CC" to Nish. and you have to defend it :) otherwise it'll be helpless :sigh:
Marquee is no more :( [My Current Status] Link2006 wrote:Let's take it outside of CP Jeremy : Please don't.I would love to see this.I'm making the popcorn already.
VuNic wrote:
And if someone addresses C++/CLI it implicitly means a "CC" to Nish. and you have to defend it otherwise it'll be helpless
:)
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog -
I am wanting to learn how to program computers, and would like to know which language is best? I was thinking of Visual Basic because the simple code would be easier to write well and understand, but i understand it is not as fast as C++. J# and C++ CLI are out of the question because they are worthless from what i have read. Do you think i should get c# or VB?
here is how I learnt programming: BASIC -> Pascal -> Scheme -> C -> C++ -> Prolog -> Visual C++ -> Java -> Visual Basic -> JavaScript -> C# -> Python -> Ruby (Just started) But as Leckey said :
Once you get the logic and concepts, each language just has it's own syntax.
This is true for Basic, Pascal, C/C++, Java, Python and Ruby. Scheme and Prolog are totally different, they make you think in a different way too. I am trying to practice some programs in them again as they are two of my favorite languages: good for hobby programming (but not good for professional programming).
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it. -Brian Kernighan
-
I am wanting to learn how to program computers, and would like to know which language is best? I was thinking of Visual Basic because the simple code would be easier to write well and understand, but i understand it is not as fast as C++. J# and C++ CLI are out of the question because they are worthless from what i have read. Do you think i should get c# or VB?
Don't worry about the language right now. Pick something and run with it. C++, Java, C#, VB.NET are best bets to create some windows apps and get your feet wet. There are tons of online resources for those languages, so you'll be able to get some good support for questions you have. I would suggest to not try to get too ambitious in the beginning. Keep things fun and concentrate on understanding what's happening before delving into too many different topics. Once you're comfortable with the basics of data structures, looping, conditions, etc. start reading books like Code Complete for a good background in software development.
BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wright -
I am wanting to learn how to program computers, and would like to know which language is best? I was thinking of Visual Basic because the simple code would be easier to write well and understand, but i understand it is not as fast as C++. J# and C++ CLI are out of the question because they are worthless from what i have read. Do you think i should get c# or VB?
I think a lot of this depends upon your reason for wanting to dive into programming. If it's a career move, then you should think in terms of what skills are most in demand in the marketplace, and of course how much the various skill sets pay. For careers, here are several major points to consider. Each path you choose will narrow your choices and help you define on your ultimate needs.
- Programmer or DBA?
- UNIX or Microsoft technologies?
- Web or client development?
Exploring both the job market as well as various web sites devoted to the major categories above will help you get a feel for what you would enjoy most, and what would be the most suited to staying gainfully employed. Once you've made those decisions, the languages and technologies will pretty much present themselves. As for differences in databases or languages, I wouldn't sweat it much. These days they're all pretty good. If you're not going after this to make a career of it, I'd do a similar decision tree based on what kinds of applications you'd like to write. Either way, starting at a high level and getting the basics outlined will get you most of the way there. Everything beyond that is just religion. :)
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
-
Daniel Grunwald wrote:
C++/CLI is not worthless, but very valuable if you have to have to use both unmanged libraries and managed code. But it's no language for beginners - you have to know both C++ and C# before learning C++/CLI.
Well the only experince i have had about C++ CLI was someone on microsoft forums, i forget their name, but they were claiming to use C++ CLI and they ahd a blog about it, and he didnt come across as very smart.
Did the name start with an "N"? Kyle, Is he this guy?
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it. -Brian Kernighan
-
Did the name start with an "N"? Kyle, Is he this guy?
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it. -Brian Kernighan
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Did the name start with an "N"? Kyle, Is he this guy?
:-D
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog -
Ansi C++ with the gcc compiler. Once you have mastered pointers and can write your own BST, Linked Lists, and sorts you may then move to a non-pointer language such as C#
On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage
I would say learn almost any language first before learning C++.
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
Once you have mastered pointers and can write your own BST, Linked Lists
Your recommendation is more-or-less back-to-front. Even if you start with C++, Stroustrup recommends starting with high-level concepts and only tackling the low-level stuff later.
Kevin
-
Don't worry about the language right now. Pick something and run with it. C++, Java, C#, VB.NET are best bets to create some windows apps and get your feet wet. There are tons of online resources for those languages, so you'll be able to get some good support for questions you have. I would suggest to not try to get too ambitious in the beginning. Keep things fun and concentrate on understanding what's happening before delving into too many different topics. Once you're comfortable with the basics of data structures, looping, conditions, etc. start reading books like Code Complete for a good background in software development.
BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wrightbrianwelsch wrote:
start reading books like Code Complete for a good background in software development.
I wish more developers were familiar with this book. Based on most of the code I've had to maintain in recent years, this seems not to be the case.:mad:
Kevin
-
I am wanting to learn how to program computers, and would like to know which language is best? I was thinking of Visual Basic because the simple code would be easier to write well and understand, but i understand it is not as fast as C++. J# and C++ CLI are out of the question because they are worthless from what i have read. Do you think i should get c# or VB?
1.First learn assembly; this will make you very popular with the old school types 2.Then learn ANSI C - this means you are serious about programming - it is still functional stuff, no objects, but hey, objects are evil anyway. 3.Now is the time to learn C++ - getting smothered in complexity is always a good thing - 4.In your spare time, do a bit of LISP, some FORTRAN and a little SMALLTALK - all really must have items for any smart programmer - and you can always add your 2c's worth to any post expounding the virtues of LISP - LISP is always better than anything else - except maybe.....assembly! 5. On the other hand, if you have bills to pay and want a life(working 95 hours a week instead of 100 is not a life!), learn Java or C# - Java will take longer and the tools generally suck - but at least you will have a current skill. If you are serious about programming, you will pickup all the art and beauty of data structures etc. If not, well, at least you have a job!
-
I am wanting to learn how to program computers, and would like to know which language is best? I was thinking of Visual Basic because the simple code would be easier to write well and understand, but i understand it is not as fast as C++. J# and C++ CLI are out of the question because they are worthless from what i have read. Do you think i should get c# or VB?
-
It looks to me as trying to climb the mount everest and you don't even know how to walk. C++ is very difficult, especially with the pointers and dereferencing stuff. I would strongly advise something a little less error prone, like java, C# or VB. Learning from a book can make stuff a lot easier, since they usually provide samples and different excersises to work on.
WM. What about weapons of mass-construction?
The best language to start with is assembly since you understand how the machine works... but that is not something for todays devlopers, thats why many application such when it comes to preformance. I suggest you start with c, then move to c++, jave or c#. Raingod
-
I am wanting to learn how to program computers, and would like to know which language is best? I was thinking of Visual Basic because the simple code would be easier to write well and understand, but i understand it is not as fast as C++. J# and C++ CLI are out of the question because they are worthless from what i have read. Do you think i should get c# or VB?
c#, vb.net, vfp, javascript, tsql and java are my weapons of choice, but it depends on what I want to do - Generally for complex projects I use several languages to achieve my goals. I'd recommend starting with something simple like vb6 or javascript in order to learn the basics of variables, loops, objects and all that. Then set yourself a simple project (address book, web page calculator, etc) and see how you get on. If confused about howto do something then a google search helps :)
-
I am wanting to learn how to program computers, and would like to know which language is best? I was thinking of Visual Basic because the simple code would be easier to write well and understand, but i understand it is not as fast as C++. J# and C++ CLI are out of the question because they are worthless from what i have read. Do you think i should get c# or VB?
The guy that made Ruby said that if the computers evolve by the law of Moore, then they become 10 times as powerful in 6.6 years. So, any programming language will be 10 times as fast in 7 years without any improvement. I don't agree with the guy, I am used to old school programming and trying to make everything optimal and fast, but then again, back then I was making graphical engines in Turbo Pascal 3.0. My personal favourite is C#, after liking PHP a lot before it, but any language will do. And I do suggest a C syntaxed language. These include C#, C++ , C , Java, Javascript, PHP. It will become easier for you to jump to other languages.
---------- Siderite
-
I am wanting to learn how to program computers, and would like to know which language is best? I was thinking of Visual Basic because the simple code would be easier to write well and understand, but i understand it is not as fast as C++. J# and C++ CLI are out of the question because they are worthless from what i have read. Do you think i should get c# or VB?
CWIn the "old days" it was true that Visual Basic was much slower than C, C++. But now is not the "old days" if you use Visual Studio .NET 2005. Now there is not much difference in speed between VB and C++. Oh I'll admit that if you are writing an embedded application on a slow processor that C++ might be a better choice - then again, I could make a compelling argument that Assembly Language is faster than C++:-) I've been programming in the days of Assembly Language, was a C programmer on UNIX, and done a lot of C++ programming using Borland C++ Builder. Did a lot of Pascal using Delphi. Now late in my career I'm a VB.NET programmer and am convienced that Visual Studio is the most advanced compiler or RAD (Rapid Application Development) that has thus far been developed. In the "old days" you could not write console (command line) applications in VB nor write DLL's - now you can. In fact, Microsoft's Visual Studio compiles both C++ and Visual Basic into a CLR (Common Language Runtime) intermediary language, for both VB and C++, and that tells me that VB.NET is so close to C++ speed that it is negligable for nearly all needs. Where I work now, its an all VB shop. I could have used my C++ skills to write code in C++ but that would introduce a level of unfamilarity to others - so I adapted to VB.NET. What I advocate is that the *reason* to use a language is generally not because of things like speed - but other more compelling things like adapting to the culture and environment where you work. Another reason for VB.NET is that I sense that there are more programming opportunites in VB than in C++. Then again, if you know VB.NET well, you should be able to pick up C++ much faster. CW
-
I am wanting to learn how to program computers, and would like to know which language is best? I was thinking of Visual Basic because the simple code would be easier to write well and understand, but i understand it is not as fast as C++. J# and C++ CLI are out of the question because they are worthless from what i have read. Do you think i should get c# or VB?
I've had to answer this question for a couple of guys that wanted to enter programming. I would suggest learning VB.NET and C#, in that order. The end product is essentially the same, neither is better than the other in terms of performance or capability. VB.NET uses a language syntax that is more modern than C#, and is thus the easiest to learn. In learning VB.NET, you will be learning aspects of programming that you must know for any modern language. You will learn object oriented design and programming, the use of a framework, and the various levels of a program (UI, business logic, database logic, etc.). Having learned VB.NET, I would next recommend C#. C# keeps the legacy syntax it inherited from C/C++. That terse syntax is not necessary for programming, and can make development a little less productive. Having learned to program in both syntax models, you should learn C++ and Java after that.