Undisciplined Programming
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[begin vent] I’m working in a group that deals mainly with interfacing with hardware. Most of the guys say they are hardware guys who do software. The bad thing is they do software badly. I’m getting fed up with it. One guy doing utilities everyone will be using said that a set of utilities were ready to be used. I promptly put it in a sample routine and CRASH!! Pointer error. When I showed him what I did he said “you’re not supposed to do that”. His requirements didn’t say you couldn’t. He seemed like he wasn’t going to fix it but I finally convinced him it could happen again. After he fixed it we repeated this 2 more times with different problems this afternoon. He was really mad at me and told me to stop picking on his code. I’m frustrated because I finally looked at his code and found several more ways to kill it with nothing tricky. I wrote a quick routine that would crash. Every time he fixed a problem, the next run, the next call would kill it again. There are two more people that I see that will probably have same problems. The boss is an old hardware guy so he won’t do anything. I’m starting to look for another project because this one is doomed. [end vent] Joe Q
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[begin vent] I’m working in a group that deals mainly with interfacing with hardware. Most of the guys say they are hardware guys who do software. The bad thing is they do software badly. I’m getting fed up with it. One guy doing utilities everyone will be using said that a set of utilities were ready to be used. I promptly put it in a sample routine and CRASH!! Pointer error. When I showed him what I did he said “you’re not supposed to do that”. His requirements didn’t say you couldn’t. He seemed like he wasn’t going to fix it but I finally convinced him it could happen again. After he fixed it we repeated this 2 more times with different problems this afternoon. He was really mad at me and told me to stop picking on his code. I’m frustrated because I finally looked at his code and found several more ways to kill it with nothing tricky. I wrote a quick routine that would crash. Every time he fixed a problem, the next run, the next call would kill it again. There are two more people that I see that will probably have same problems. The boss is an old hardware guy so he won’t do anything. I’m starting to look for another project because this one is doomed. [end vent] Joe Q
Joe Q wrote:
I’m working in a group that deals mainly with interfacing with hardware. Most of the guys say they are hardware guys who do software. The bad thing is they do software badly.
Well, take heart. From the sound of things, the rest of HP is having problems too... ;P
every night, i kneel at the foot of my bed and thank the Great Overseeing Politicians for protecting my freedoms by reducing their number, as if they were deer in a state park. -- Chris Losinger, Online Poker Players?
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[begin vent] I’m working in a group that deals mainly with interfacing with hardware. Most of the guys say they are hardware guys who do software. The bad thing is they do software badly. I’m getting fed up with it. One guy doing utilities everyone will be using said that a set of utilities were ready to be used. I promptly put it in a sample routine and CRASH!! Pointer error. When I showed him what I did he said “you’re not supposed to do that”. His requirements didn’t say you couldn’t. He seemed like he wasn’t going to fix it but I finally convinced him it could happen again. After he fixed it we repeated this 2 more times with different problems this afternoon. He was really mad at me and told me to stop picking on his code. I’m frustrated because I finally looked at his code and found several more ways to kill it with nothing tricky. I wrote a quick routine that would crash. Every time he fixed a problem, the next run, the next call would kill it again. There are two more people that I see that will probably have same problems. The boss is an old hardware guy so he won’t do anything. I’m starting to look for another project because this one is doomed. [end vent] Joe Q
I got a Hardware guy who did quite some application programing lately. Provided I treat him gently and don't flood him with gibberish he's willing to learn "how to do it right". Guess I'm lucky :)
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Linkify! || Fold With Us! || sighist -
[begin vent] I’m working in a group that deals mainly with interfacing with hardware. Most of the guys say they are hardware guys who do software. The bad thing is they do software badly. I’m getting fed up with it. One guy doing utilities everyone will be using said that a set of utilities were ready to be used. I promptly put it in a sample routine and CRASH!! Pointer error. When I showed him what I did he said “you’re not supposed to do that”. His requirements didn’t say you couldn’t. He seemed like he wasn’t going to fix it but I finally convinced him it could happen again. After he fixed it we repeated this 2 more times with different problems this afternoon. He was really mad at me and told me to stop picking on his code. I’m frustrated because I finally looked at his code and found several more ways to kill it with nothing tricky. I wrote a quick routine that would crash. Every time he fixed a problem, the next run, the next call would kill it again. There are two more people that I see that will probably have same problems. The boss is an old hardware guy so he won’t do anything. I’m starting to look for another project because this one is doomed. [end vent] Joe Q
As a hardware guy who also does software, I can assure you that I take just as much care with my software as I do with my hardware. As my dad always taught me, if something's worth doing, it's worth doing properly :)
Ryan
"Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"
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[begin vent] I’m working in a group that deals mainly with interfacing with hardware. Most of the guys say they are hardware guys who do software. The bad thing is they do software badly. I’m getting fed up with it. One guy doing utilities everyone will be using said that a set of utilities were ready to be used. I promptly put it in a sample routine and CRASH!! Pointer error. When I showed him what I did he said “you’re not supposed to do that”. His requirements didn’t say you couldn’t. He seemed like he wasn’t going to fix it but I finally convinced him it could happen again. After he fixed it we repeated this 2 more times with different problems this afternoon. He was really mad at me and told me to stop picking on his code. I’m frustrated because I finally looked at his code and found several more ways to kill it with nothing tricky. I wrote a quick routine that would crash. Every time he fixed a problem, the next run, the next call would kill it again. There are two more people that I see that will probably have same problems. The boss is an old hardware guy so he won’t do anything. I’m starting to look for another project because this one is doomed. [end vent] Joe Q
"After he fixed it we repeated this 2 more times with different problems this afternoon. He was really mad at me and told me to stop picking on his code." Sounds like you got the makings of a good developer in that guy :-) Nobody likes testing!!! Don't give up dude, it will be more rewarding at the end of the day if you keep up the struggle and win :-)
"a fool will not learn from a wise man, but a wise man will learn from a fool" "It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed." - Theodore Roosevelt "Success is going from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
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[begin vent] I’m working in a group that deals mainly with interfacing with hardware. Most of the guys say they are hardware guys who do software. The bad thing is they do software badly. I’m getting fed up with it. One guy doing utilities everyone will be using said that a set of utilities were ready to be used. I promptly put it in a sample routine and CRASH!! Pointer error. When I showed him what I did he said “you’re not supposed to do that”. His requirements didn’t say you couldn’t. He seemed like he wasn’t going to fix it but I finally convinced him it could happen again. After he fixed it we repeated this 2 more times with different problems this afternoon. He was really mad at me and told me to stop picking on his code. I’m frustrated because I finally looked at his code and found several more ways to kill it with nothing tricky. I wrote a quick routine that would crash. Every time he fixed a problem, the next run, the next call would kill it again. There are two more people that I see that will probably have same problems. The boss is an old hardware guy so he won’t do anything. I’m starting to look for another project because this one is doomed. [end vent] Joe Q
SQA. Guess what my job is :-D Elaine :rose:
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[begin vent] I’m working in a group that deals mainly with interfacing with hardware. Most of the guys say they are hardware guys who do software. The bad thing is they do software badly. I’m getting fed up with it. One guy doing utilities everyone will be using said that a set of utilities were ready to be used. I promptly put it in a sample routine and CRASH!! Pointer error. When I showed him what I did he said “you’re not supposed to do that”. His requirements didn’t say you couldn’t. He seemed like he wasn’t going to fix it but I finally convinced him it could happen again. After he fixed it we repeated this 2 more times with different problems this afternoon. He was really mad at me and told me to stop picking on his code. I’m frustrated because I finally looked at his code and found several more ways to kill it with nothing tricky. I wrote a quick routine that would crash. Every time he fixed a problem, the next run, the next call would kill it again. There are two more people that I see that will probably have same problems. The boss is an old hardware guy so he won’t do anything. I’m starting to look for another project because this one is doomed. [end vent] Joe Q
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Joe Q wrote:
I’m working in a group that deals mainly with interfacing with hardware. Most of the guys say they are hardware guys who do software. The bad thing is they do software badly.
Well, take heart. From the sound of things, the rest of HP is having problems too... ;P
every night, i kneel at the foot of my bed and thank the Great Overseeing Politicians for protecting my freedoms by reducing their number, as if they were deer in a state park. -- Chris Losinger, Online Poker Players?
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I got a Hardware guy who did quite some application programing lately. Provided I treat him gently and don't flood him with gibberish he's willing to learn "how to do it right". Guess I'm lucky :)
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Linkify! || Fold With Us! || sighistpeterchen wrote:
I got a Hardware guy who did quite some application programing lately. Provided I treat him gently and don't flood him with gibberish he's willing to learn "how to do it right". Guess I'm lucky
The guys I work with say that Hardware guys are better than software in all ways. Extending that theroy, Hardware guys do software better than software guys. I wasn't picking on the guys software, I really was trying to help him improve it. But why should a hardware guy listen to a software guy. I just don't want to be embarrased in front of the customer.
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As a hardware guy who also does software, I can assure you that I take just as much care with my software as I do with my hardware. As my dad always taught me, if something's worth doing, it's worth doing properly :)
Ryan
"Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"
Ryan Binns wrote:
As a hardware guy who also does software, I can assure you that I take just as much care with my software as I do with my hardware. As my dad always taught me, if something's worth doing, it's worth doing properly
Can I borrow your dad? I total agree with you. I'm a software guy who does hardware and I usually take extra time on the hardware to make sure I do it right. These guys say the hardware is what's important so you can slack on the software.
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SQA. Guess what my job is :-D Elaine :rose:
I worked in SQA for 6 months but I liked coding to much. I know what will probably happen on this project. We'll get to the end and they will get the single success path going. We'll run it for SQA and be embarrased. Or SQA will ask for error's to be injected and it will crash and burn. Then there will be lots of overtime!
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"After he fixed it we repeated this 2 more times with different problems this afternoon. He was really mad at me and told me to stop picking on his code." Sounds like you got the makings of a good developer in that guy :-) Nobody likes testing!!! Don't give up dude, it will be more rewarding at the end of the day if you keep up the struggle and win :-)
"a fool will not learn from a wise man, but a wise man will learn from a fool" "It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed." - Theodore Roosevelt "Success is going from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
cykophysh39 wrote:
Sounds like you got the makings of a good developer in that guy Nobody likes testing!!! Don't give up dude, it will be more rewarding at the end of the day if you keep up the struggle and win
Thanks, I won't give up but I'll piss off several people. I'll do my best on my stuff and to protect my code from there's. I'll do what I can to make sure they test their stuff but when they get mad at me for finding errors in their stuff, it's tough.
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Ryan Binns wrote:
As a hardware guy who also does software, I can assure you that I take just as much care with my software as I do with my hardware. As my dad always taught me, if something's worth doing, it's worth doing properly
Can I borrow your dad? I total agree with you. I'm a software guy who does hardware and I usually take extra time on the hardware to make sure I do it right. These guys say the hardware is what's important so you can slack on the software.
And that's why there's no such thing as a reliable DVR...
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Hey - I work for an entire company like that. I do the user interfaces for our products. You wouldn't believe the tantrums I have to throw in order to address the most minor usability issues.
Software Zen:
delete this;Word!
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
cykophysh39 wrote:
Sounds like you got the makings of a good developer in that guy Nobody likes testing!!! Don't give up dude, it will be more rewarding at the end of the day if you keep up the struggle and win
Thanks, I won't give up but I'll piss off several people. I'll do my best on my stuff and to protect my code from there's. I'll do what I can to make sure they test their stuff but when they get mad at me for finding errors in their stuff, it's tough.
is there no way that you could introduce a "Peer Code review" ? I remember at the start of my carreer, I had to submit all the code I written to my senior programmer for review, I used to hate it as he would always send it back with some defects I was told to review and an explanation why it was a defect. I was over the moon 6 months later when I submitted some work, and it never came back!! And the same Senior came up to me and said I had written some good code!! It appealed to my competitive spirit as I wanted to win!! :-)
"a fool will not learn from a wise man, but a wise man will learn from a fool" "It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed." - Theodore Roosevelt "Success is going from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
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And that's why there's no such thing as a reliable DVR...
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
The next time he complains about me finding a problem in his code (probably later this morning) I'm going to use your Dale Earnhardt qoute on him. Thanks
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is there no way that you could introduce a "Peer Code review" ? I remember at the start of my carreer, I had to submit all the code I written to my senior programmer for review, I used to hate it as he would always send it back with some defects I was told to review and an explanation why it was a defect. I was over the moon 6 months later when I submitted some work, and it never came back!! And the same Senior came up to me and said I had written some good code!! It appealed to my competitive spirit as I wanted to win!! :-)
"a fool will not learn from a wise man, but a wise man will learn from a fool" "It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed." - Theodore Roosevelt "Success is going from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
cykophysh39 wrote:
is there no way that you could introduce a "Peer Code review" ?
Our processes say we're suppose to do peer reviews. I have my code peer reviewed. However, since people take our process as a suggestion and there is no checks to make sure we're following the process, people don't usually do it and let problems be found in integration. We have peer review training but the guys in the group I'm in that have gone have come out saying that doesn't apply to them. It's very frustrating. I would transfer back to our pure software group but I like making the hardware do things.
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cykophysh39 wrote:
is there no way that you could introduce a "Peer Code review" ?
Our processes say we're suppose to do peer reviews. I have my code peer reviewed. However, since people take our process as a suggestion and there is no checks to make sure we're following the process, people don't usually do it and let problems be found in integration. We have peer review training but the guys in the group I'm in that have gone have come out saying that doesn't apply to them. It's very frustrating. I would transfer back to our pure software group but I like making the hardware do things.
well now you have no other choice but to roll on the ground kick and screaming till you get your way!! :-)
"a fool will not learn from a wise man, but a wise man will learn from a fool" "It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed." - Theodore Roosevelt "Success is going from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
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well now you have no other choice but to roll on the ground kick and screaming till you get your way!! :-)
"a fool will not learn from a wise man, but a wise man will learn from a fool" "It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed." - Theodore Roosevelt "Success is going from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
cykophysh39 wrote:
well now you have no other choice but to roll on the ground kick and screaming till you get your way!!
Or change projects. We have one that is suppose to be coming up next year that I want to work on. I've worked with the boss before and he is very good at getting people to do what's right. In fact, I think he had one of the guys I work with now moved off one of his project becasue the guy wouldn't follow the rules. [this company doesn't fire people for incompetence, they're afraid of lawsuits]
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Ryan Binns wrote:
As a hardware guy who also does software, I can assure you that I take just as much care with my software as I do with my hardware. As my dad always taught me, if something's worth doing, it's worth doing properly
Can I borrow your dad? I total agree with you. I'm a software guy who does hardware and I usually take extra time on the hardware to make sure I do it right. These guys say the hardware is what's important so you can slack on the software.
Joe Q wrote:
Can I borrow your dad?
Sure, no worries :rolleyes:
Ryan
"Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"
