WW2 and Japanese
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>> You think that what you were taught in school is 'true history' ? I am talking about what my child will be taught at school, which, is aa place that teach them the "true" or the "false".
In which country "people" know what their ancestors have done? USA, England, France, China,...? Your own country? Please. I doubt that a person with your attitude would put his kid through the educational system of any country except yours (which is _fully_ trustworthy). In Japan, if you forgive the japanese, you will end up in a ghetto of priviledged gaijin complaining day and night while enjoying a life-style that you can only dream of in your country. I've seen it happen so many times.... Please, please, please, don't be american, let it be from somewhere else, oh please, please, please,...
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You think that what you were taught in school is 'true history' ? I think you're overreacting. You read something in a paper, so you're making gross assumptions about Japanese culture - do you think that each successive generation of Japanese should be given a massive guilt trip about the past ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
...do you think that each successive generation of Japanese should be given a massive guilt trip about the past ?
If that is what the past is, why not? Changing or polishing it will be changing the history. I was hoping this will move to the SoapBox, so I will not say much till then :-D Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
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Christian Graus wrote:
...do you think that each successive generation of Japanese should be given a massive guilt trip about the past ?
If that is what the past is, why not? Changing or polishing it will be changing the history. I was hoping this will move to the SoapBox, so I will not say much till then :-D Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
Paul Selormey wrote:
I was hoping this will move to the SoapBox,
Yeah, I was thinking about it.
Paul Selormey wrote:
If that is what the past is, why not? Changing or polishing it will be changing the history.
Changing or not changing it is not different to teaching it in detail or not. I had a pen friend in Germany and I remember her trying to explain to me that she still thought the holocaust was a terrible thing, but she didn't understand why she kept being told about it all her school life. I see her point. It doesn't change how bad it was, but why try to raise a nation of people who didn't personally exist at the time, to be consumed with national guilt ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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Geez it was 60 years ago - I think there are more pressing issues. If you are worried about misinformation - follow your kids work and do some home schooling. And I can't imagine that they teach the gory details of WW2 to school age kids anyways.
A cynic is a man who, when he smells flowers, looks around for a coffin.
-H.L. MenckenJWood wrote:
Geez it was 60 years ago - I think there are more pressing issues.
But those held responsible for the war are being honored here currently, the source of the tension between Japan/Korea, Japan/China. The poorer countries have no choice but to shut up, since they still rely heavily on Japanese assistance. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
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Paul Selormey wrote:
I was hoping this will move to the SoapBox,
Yeah, I was thinking about it.
Paul Selormey wrote:
If that is what the past is, why not? Changing or polishing it will be changing the history.
Changing or not changing it is not different to teaching it in detail or not. I had a pen friend in Germany and I remember her trying to explain to me that she still thought the holocaust was a terrible thing, but she didn't understand why she kept being told about it all her school life. I see her point. It doesn't change how bad it was, but why try to raise a nation of people who didn't personally exist at the time, to be consumed with national guilt ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
I had a pen friend in Germany and I remember her trying to explain to me that she still thought the holocaust was a terrible thing, but she didn't understand why she kept being told about it all her school life.
The unfortunate thing here in Japan is that most just do not know what happened, and as if that is not enough the immediate past and the current govern are trying to glorify it. Most will just not speak out of fear. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
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JWood wrote:
Geez it was 60 years ago - I think there are more pressing issues.
But those held responsible for the war are being honored here currently, the source of the tension between Japan/Korea, Japan/China. The poorer countries have no choice but to shut up, since they still rely heavily on Japanese assistance. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
I'm not familiar with these exact issues - but I also think that guilting countries for past crime should be limited to the generation that they were committed and not passed onto to their children. To do so is racist.
A cynic is a man who, when he smells flowers, looks around for a coffin.
-H.L. Mencken -
You think that what you were taught in school is 'true history' ? I think you're overreacting. You read something in a paper, so you're making gross assumptions about Japanese culture - do you think that each successive generation of Japanese should be given a massive guilt trip about the past ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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I know exactly what you mean. So, I ask again, do you think the history taught where you live is without bias ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Yeh that sure is true - just browse through wikipedia and you will occasionally hit a historical stories that has been passed down from generations that is a highly nationalistic version of the truth. One I remember was the history of one of the eastern european coutnries with regards to the Byzantine empire that was complete news to me.
A cynic is a man who, when he smells flowers, looks around for a coffin.
-H.L. Mencken -
>> You think that what you were taught in school is 'true history' ? I am talking about what my child will be taught at school, which, is aa place that teach them the "true" or the "false".
.jpg wrote:
I am talking about what my child will be taught at school, which, is aa place that teach them the "true" or the "false".
So you made sure that your child already knows that Spanish and English hunted native american children and women and fed them to their dogs? Some how I think that was skipped in American education also. You will learn how nice we were to native americans, and skip the whole torture and mass killing of heathens. The complete ellimination of the tribes who refused to wear clothing, as innocent as children and weapons completely unknown to them, they were killed to every man women and child for sport and religious reasons.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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You think that what you were taught in school is 'true history' ? I think you're overreacting. You read something in a paper, so you're making gross assumptions about Japanese culture - do you think that each successive generation of Japanese should be given a massive guilt trip about the past ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
do you think that each successive generation of Japanese should be given a massive guilt trip about the past
I don't think every Japanese should fell guilty about the past, but I think they should never deny the reality. On this point, German do much much better than Japanese.
Thanks Benben
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I'm not familiar with these exact issues - but I also think that guilting countries for past crime should be limited to the generation that they were committed and not passed onto to their children. To do so is racist.
A cynic is a man who, when he smells flowers, looks around for a coffin.
-H.L. MenckenJWood wrote:
...but I also think that guilting countries for past crime should be limited to the generation that they were committed and not passed onto to their children.
Remember those you suffered the pains are still living. Telling them to shut up for that is racism is difficult to understand. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
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Yes, actually. So long as I am involved enough to step in and explain that not everything you read is true. I see now you're saying that they are being taught a *different* history, and not just no history from that period. That's a little more insidious, although it still wouldn't stop me from moving there, and making sure my kids got a balanced view. But, I do that anyhow, anywhere.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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JWood wrote:
...but I also think that guilting countries for past crime should be limited to the generation that they were committed and not passed onto to their children.
Remember those you suffered the pains are still living. Telling them to shut up for that is racism is difficult to understand. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
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The problem is WHO is not guilty of such things. To go off on the japanese because they lost a war while other countries' crimes are ignored is morally absurd.
Like, presumably, children in the US are told about the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, for example? Or not? I actually know hardly anything about WW2 that didn't occur in Europe. I don't even know what Japan had to do with it. Were they actual part of "WW2" as it happened in Europe, or were they just having a war at the same time? And what was the US doing in any of it?
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JWood wrote:
Geez it was 60 years ago - I think there are more pressing issues.
But those held responsible for the war are being honored here currently, the source of the tension between Japan/Korea, Japan/China. The poorer countries have no choice but to shut up, since they still rely heavily on Japanese assistance. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
Paul Selormey wrote:
But those held responsible for the war are being honored here currently
happens in every country. The soldiers who killed women and children, shot in the back, at Wounded Knee were given the medal of honor for their actions. No one wants to teache a truth that is bad for them. Almost everyone is guilty of attrocities equal to the other countries, we gloss over them in every war, in every conflict, we excuse them even up to the modern day. Truth is irrelevant, to speak out against your own country is against nationalism, and nationalism is the new patriotism in every country. You really don't want to study the real history of most countries. Even Japan has their bloodiest war not in WWII, but in the 100 year war where most of the population of the island was killed... man woman and child alike. The slaughters in Europe are repeated every few generations, just as they are in other countries. You forget, because you want to forget, because it is good to forget. Those who actually study history know that death and carnage is the rule of almost all civilizations throughout history. It is very hard to tell one country to feel guilty for ages when your country didn't want to either.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I read news that many new generation Japanese do not have a clue on how and what the Japanese had done to hurt people around the world during WW2. Is this how the majority think in Japan? I got a job offer from japan but is worrying about this. I really don't want my child to grow under such an environment.
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Japanese aren't like that anymore. Infact, they have some of the highest technology there (including Sony). There's nothing wrong with Japan, they're cool!
Theo only thing i dont like about Japan is that they have banned firearms, but they probably dont need them because they probably have a less violent society than America.
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Paul Selormey wrote:
But those held responsible for the war are being honored here currently
happens in every country. The soldiers who killed women and children, shot in the back, at Wounded Knee were given the medal of honor for their actions. No one wants to teache a truth that is bad for them. Almost everyone is guilty of attrocities equal to the other countries, we gloss over them in every war, in every conflict, we excuse them even up to the modern day. Truth is irrelevant, to speak out against your own country is against nationalism, and nationalism is the new patriotism in every country. You really don't want to study the real history of most countries. Even Japan has their bloodiest war not in WWII, but in the 100 year war where most of the population of the island was killed... man woman and child alike. The slaughters in Europe are repeated every few generations, just as they are in other countries. You forget, because you want to forget, because it is good to forget. Those who actually study history know that death and carnage is the rule of almost all civilizations throughout history. It is very hard to tell one country to feel guilty for ages when your country didn't want to either.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
You are absolutely right. The most important part IMHO is how people in whatever country behave TODAY. Once and again on the news, North Korea may have been heaven itself yesterday but today is a menace to us all. And, besides, from what I know of many trips to Japan, I wish folks at home where a tenth as civilized TODAY.
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You are absolutely right. The most important part IMHO is how people in whatever country behave TODAY. Once and again on the news, North Korea may have been heaven itself yesterday but today is a menace to us all. And, besides, from what I know of many trips to Japan, I wish folks at home where a tenth as civilized TODAY.
DaTxomin wrote:
The most important part IMHO is how people in whatever country behave TODAY.
still doesn't happen. You talk about this as if it is a shock. Folks are no more civilized today than they were 100 years ago, or 200 years ago, or 1000 years ago.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Like, presumably, children in the US are told about the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, for example? Or not? I actually know hardly anything about WW2 that didn't occur in Europe. I don't even know what Japan had to do with it. Were they actual part of "WW2" as it happened in Europe, or were they just having a war at the same time? And what was the US doing in any of it?
Sure they are. I was, at least. However, nothing was said about the massive fire-bombings targeting civilians in japanese cities that kill far more than the atomic holocaust. Even less details are given when it comes to the genocide of native americans. The evil spaniards did it all... even if they were kicked out of the continent 200 years before!!! Regarding Europe, the nazis were charged with bombing cities (again targeting civilians) while the allies utterly destroyed everything in their path and not a word of it yet.