Vista Licensing revisited..
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http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/default.aspx[^] A while back on in the Lounge we were talking about the new licensing. It is offical though, "retail" versions of Vista may only be transferred to one future box forever! I had thought this would only apply to OEM (which would make more sense), but it is not, it is for th retail version. Gamers who update their systems more than most people change socks will get bit hard by this one. One issue we had hoped for is that they would allow the system to power up to five machines as does Apple, but that is not happening either. Additionally, they are forcing periodic revaluations your license which if you do not allow to occur, will cripple your system until you do. This means that you system MUST be connected to internet at some point to validate. Another funny point is that the software is only licensed to use "up to" two processors. Guess you have to run Server if you are going to use a quad core... There are also a few limitations for virtual servers and may only use if using Vista Ultimate. Oh, but the bright side is that they have extended their "warranty" to 1 year.. Oh, doesn't it just give you chills all over... I do not know what the people at Microsoft are smoking, but I small a fall coming if they do not get a clue quickly! :zzz: So, how is the 64 bit versions of Linux going these days? ;)
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Windows Vista - My Journey begins!
Anyone have any insight regarding MSDN Professional Subscriptions and how the Vista Licensing will be affected in terms of activations and Virtual Machine usage. I often install my MSDN XP Pro licenses in VMWare VM's and then after a few months, destory it and recreate it for various reasons.
________________________________ Heston T. Holtmann, B.Sc.Eng. Software Engineer
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Jochen_Muenchen wrote:
diriproject wrote: According current practice you are wrong. Such a license has to be readable before somebody pays. sure. Go to the web and download a copy.
No need for because they neither pay my internet access nor my time. I enter a shop, take a box, pay and have it. And, I'm pretty sure you are aware of the sentence: Opening a box forces you to buy it.
diriproject wrote:
Opening a box forces you to buy it.
does not apply to software (at least from Microsoft). "You must accept the enclosed License Agreement before you can use this product. If you do not accept the terms of the License Agreement, you should promptly return the product for a refund. A copy of the product License Agreement ia available for review at www.microsoft.com/office/eula. ..." Outside of box for Visio standard. Maybe you should first lok at the boxes before you buy them.
diriproject wrote:
No need for because they neither pay my internet access nor my time.
They also do not pay you for the time that you need to get to the shop or the cost of driving there.
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diriproject wrote:
Opening a box forces you to buy it.
does not apply to software (at least from Microsoft). "You must accept the enclosed License Agreement before you can use this product. If you do not accept the terms of the License Agreement, you should promptly return the product for a refund. A copy of the product License Agreement ia available for review at www.microsoft.com/office/eula. ..." Outside of box for Visio standard. Maybe you should first lok at the boxes before you buy them.
diriproject wrote:
No need for because they neither pay my internet access nor my time.
They also do not pay you for the time that you need to get to the shop or the cost of driving there.
Jochen_Muenchen wrote:
diriproject wrote: Opening a box forces you to buy it. does not apply to software (at least from Microsoft). "You must accept the enclosed License Agreement before you can use this product. If you do not accept the terms of the License Agreement, you should promptly return the product for a refund. A copy of the product License Agreement ia available for review at www.microsoft.com/office/eula. ..." Outside of box for Visio standard. Maybe you should first lok at the boxes before you buy them.
When it's sold in Germany this license is invalid for not being in German language. From Visual Studio 6 Enterprise Edition: "Sie müssen den Bestimmungen des beiliegenden Linzenzvertrags ..." I could quote many more sentences like this because I hold licenses of many MS products since Windows 1.0. Nevertheless I'm not bound to them because I have never been able to read them with product in front of me before buying it. You may ask whichever dealer about broken pakets and selling them ... ;)
Jochen_Muenchen wrote:
diriproject wrote: No need for because they neither pay my internet access nor my time. They also do not pay you for the time that you need to get to the shop or the cost of driving there.
Oh, I am already in shop (take the one with a planet's name as example) and see this interesting product there. I want to buy it now because the box looks so funny and description sounds promissing. I take it, pay and go away with it. And there we are: License included in closed box is void. You see: It's like buying anything else. When bought product is software it doesn't make any difference in law - it's a product. Be happy about this! OTOH you can be one of ten persons being interested in such a product. Each person opens a box in the shop before spending money. What happens than?
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Jochen_Muenchen wrote:
diriproject wrote: Opening a box forces you to buy it. does not apply to software (at least from Microsoft). "You must accept the enclosed License Agreement before you can use this product. If you do not accept the terms of the License Agreement, you should promptly return the product for a refund. A copy of the product License Agreement ia available for review at www.microsoft.com/office/eula. ..." Outside of box for Visio standard. Maybe you should first lok at the boxes before you buy them.
When it's sold in Germany this license is invalid for not being in German language. From Visual Studio 6 Enterprise Edition: "Sie müssen den Bestimmungen des beiliegenden Linzenzvertrags ..." I could quote many more sentences like this because I hold licenses of many MS products since Windows 1.0. Nevertheless I'm not bound to them because I have never been able to read them with product in front of me before buying it. You may ask whichever dealer about broken pakets and selling them ... ;)
Jochen_Muenchen wrote:
diriproject wrote: No need for because they neither pay my internet access nor my time. They also do not pay you for the time that you need to get to the shop or the cost of driving there.
Oh, I am already in shop (take the one with a planet's name as example) and see this interesting product there. I want to buy it now because the box looks so funny and description sounds promissing. I take it, pay and go away with it. And there we are: License included in closed box is void. You see: It's like buying anything else. When bought product is software it doesn't make any difference in law - it's a product. Be happy about this! OTOH you can be one of ten persons being interested in such a product. Each person opens a box in the shop before spending money. What happens than?
diriproject wrote:
When it's sold in Germany this license is invalid for not being in German language.
nonsense. First we esspecially ordered it in engish language. Second there have been high court decisions that a buyer does not meed to get any desription of a product in german language as lonmg as there is any discription.
diriproject wrote:
License included in closed box is void.
no.
diriproject wrote:
OTOH you can be one of ten persons being interested in such a product. Each person opens a box in the shop before spending money. What happens than?
the shop returns the boxes to the distributor and gets its refund. The distributor retuirns the boxes to Microsoft and gets his refund.
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diriproject wrote:
When it's sold in Germany this license is invalid for not being in German language.
nonsense. First we esspecially ordered it in engish language. Second there have been high court decisions that a buyer does not meed to get any desription of a product in german language as lonmg as there is any discription.
diriproject wrote:
License included in closed box is void.
no.
diriproject wrote:
OTOH you can be one of ten persons being interested in such a product. Each person opens a box in the shop before spending money. What happens than?
the shop returns the boxes to the distributor and gets its refund. The distributor retuirns the boxes to Microsoft and gets his refund.
When you order an english version it's your task. And: It's not task of customer to learn a foreign language to be able to read a license. This decision is made by highest courts since many years. And: Neither I nor you nor any customer is a monetary institute and in no way obliged to buy something first but to run for the money afterwards to get a refund only. And: According multiple highest courts in Europe no customer is bound to restrictions due to licenses when not being readable before buying something. No customer is obliged to search somewhere for a license because chance of existance of such a beast when product is directly in front of him. That's reason for many manufacturers who deliver via direct download: You must read license and agree before you get it. If Microsoft does not like this unbound status they should stop selling their products in boxes or as bundles with computers or change something. JFI: I could sell such boxes and know about efforts to get exchange and ... I sell my own software. I want to get my money as well and must be very familiar with licenses and related laws for this. In most cases Microsoft has simply nothing more than bugs or new (incompatible) versions of operating system in it's hands to stop usage of a product longer than support is provided without validation.
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Who cares? Let me count the number of times in the past this licensing would have caused me problems when upgrading. Zero. (Yup, really did count all the installations and what hardware I used--the computer I'm using right now is, in fact, the only computer with that has had just one OS on it; all my other computers have gone through multiple operating systems.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Problem? No, not in the long term. Setback? Very.
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http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/default.aspx[^] A while back on in the Lounge we were talking about the new licensing. It is offical though, "retail" versions of Vista may only be transferred to one future box forever! I had thought this would only apply to OEM (which would make more sense), but it is not, it is for th retail version. Gamers who update their systems more than most people change socks will get bit hard by this one. One issue we had hoped for is that they would allow the system to power up to five machines as does Apple, but that is not happening either. Additionally, they are forcing periodic revaluations your license which if you do not allow to occur, will cripple your system until you do. This means that you system MUST be connected to internet at some point to validate. Another funny point is that the software is only licensed to use "up to" two processors. Guess you have to run Server if you are going to use a quad core... There are also a few limitations for virtual servers and may only use if using Vista Ultimate. Oh, but the bright side is that they have extended their "warranty" to 1 year.. Oh, doesn't it just give you chills all over... I do not know what the people at Microsoft are smoking, but I small a fall coming if they do not get a clue quickly! :zzz: So, how is the 64 bit versions of Linux going these days? ;)
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Windows Vista - My Journey begins!
I have one simple question. Where are the upgrade suppliers like nVidia and ATI and video game houses? They get a large chunk of changes due to the interaction between "improvements" in gaming software that end up requiring more capable hardware. They are essentially encouraging people to buy brand new computers all the time, which would be good for major PC producers (a la Dell/HP/etc), but this means that the vast majority of non-hardcore gamers will just say "meh" if a game requires another very expensive license if they want to upgrade to play it on a capable machine.
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http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/default.aspx[^] A while back on in the Lounge we were talking about the new licensing. It is offical though, "retail" versions of Vista may only be transferred to one future box forever! I had thought this would only apply to OEM (which would make more sense), but it is not, it is for th retail version. Gamers who update their systems more than most people change socks will get bit hard by this one. One issue we had hoped for is that they would allow the system to power up to five machines as does Apple, but that is not happening either. Additionally, they are forcing periodic revaluations your license which if you do not allow to occur, will cripple your system until you do. This means that you system MUST be connected to internet at some point to validate. Another funny point is that the software is only licensed to use "up to" two processors. Guess you have to run Server if you are going to use a quad core... There are also a few limitations for virtual servers and may only use if using Vista Ultimate. Oh, but the bright side is that they have extended their "warranty" to 1 year.. Oh, doesn't it just give you chills all over... I do not know what the people at Microsoft are smoking, but I small a fall coming if they do not get a clue quickly! :zzz: So, how is the 64 bit versions of Linux going these days? ;)
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Windows Vista - My Journey begins!
The only way we, as a group of Users / Business Professionals can make a difference is not to persue the Vista product until Microsoft becomes reasonable about licensing. Stick with XP32/64. If you really need a sweet interface use the (stardock) interface. It is a lot less than the price of upgrade, and there are some freeware packages.
To Breathe is to have life; To Code is to live!
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Joe Woodbury wrote:
Let me count the number of times in the past this licensing would have caused me problems when upgrading.
The upgrades that I've done are usually more memory and better hard drives. However, I do re-install the OS every year or so and clean up the entire system. And I do this usually by replacing the hard disk. I assume this would mean Vista would think I'm using a different machine. :~ Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithFrom what I understand it wouldn't affect you in this regard.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Problem? No, not in the long term. Setback? Very.
Over 90% of users get their OS as part of the computer. The XP OEM licensing already prohibits reinstalling the OS on another system. This is no different; it's all much ado about nothing.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Over 90% of users get their OS as part of the computer. The XP OEM licensing already prohibits reinstalling the OS on another system. This is no different; it's all much ado about nothing.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
My computer is 3 years old, cost me $1000, and supports Vista just fine, Aero and all. I don't intend on buying new computers any time soon, let alone four. If 90% of people get their OS as part of OEM and that's reason enough not to worry about the rest of us, then it's reason enough not to worry about the losses of offering better deals to the remaining 10% of us who are willing to dish out more than the $50 or so that Microsoft earns from OEM licenses.
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My computer is 3 years old, cost me $1000, and supports Vista just fine, Aero and all. I don't intend on buying new computers any time soon, let alone four. If 90% of people get their OS as part of OEM and that's reason enough not to worry about the rest of us, then it's reason enough not to worry about the losses of offering better deals to the remaining 10% of us who are willing to dish out more than the $50 or so that Microsoft earns from OEM licenses.
By your own account, this will have no effect on you, so why are you complaining?
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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can someone tell me what constitutes a different device? if i reinstall the OS after putting in a new video card, would it be considered another device? what about the LAN card? if it uses LAN card's mac address or something similar, would it be ok if I carry my LAN card along when I move to a different machine? If this means a total of 2 activations of fresh installations even if the device does not, then Microsoft might as well not release Vista and charge the XP users some money for continuing to use it beyond the support period.
Changing the video or LAN card has no effect. I have changed quite a bit of hardware without causing a problem with XP.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Rocky Moore wrote:
It is offical though, "retail" versions of Vista may only be transferred to one future box forever! I had thought this would only apply to OEM (which would make more sense), but it is not, it is for th retail version. Gamers who update their systems more than most people change socks will get bit hard by this one.
I think the most powerful source of complaints toward this new licensing scheme will be the hardware retailers. I can imagine that this policy could cause computer hardware sales to decline. I know I would be much more reluctant to upgrade my PC if I knew I'd need to purchase a new OS license. I'd be interested to see what happens if hardware sales do decline as a result. Pressure from major companies who include Windows on their prebuilt machines, who in turn received pressure from hardware manufacturing companies could be the deciding factor for Microsoft to change this license restriction. Microsoft would be really feeling the hurt if these companies started offering other non-Microsoft OS packages as an alternative or replacement.
Sentinel_13 wrote:
I think the most powerful source of complaints toward this new licensing scheme will be the hardware retailers.
The OEM licensing hasn't changed from XP. You aren't allowed to transfer an OEM Windows license to a new device.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Anyone have any insight regarding MSDN Professional Subscriptions and how the Vista Licensing will be affected in terms of activations and Virtual Machine usage. I often install my MSDN XP Pro licenses in VMWare VM's and then after a few months, destory it and recreate it for various reasons.
________________________________ Heston T. Holtmann, B.Sc.Eng. Software Engineer
MSDN allows ten activations for XP. It's probably the same for Vista.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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By your own account, this will have no effect on you, so why are you complaining?
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
How does it have no effect on me? It means I have to either buy new computers or $1100 worth in Windows licenses.
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I have one simple question. Where are the upgrade suppliers like nVidia and ATI and video game houses? They get a large chunk of changes due to the interaction between "improvements" in gaming software that end up requiring more capable hardware. They are essentially encouraging people to buy brand new computers all the time, which would be good for major PC producers (a la Dell/HP/etc), but this means that the vast majority of non-hardcore gamers will just say "meh" if a game requires another very expensive license if they want to upgrade to play it on a capable machine.
Changing the video card does not affect this. Do note that the license refers to transfering the operating system to a new device, NOT activations.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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The only way we, as a group of Users / Business Professionals can make a difference is not to persue the Vista product until Microsoft becomes reasonable about licensing. Stick with XP32/64. If you really need a sweet interface use the (stardock) interface. It is a lot less than the price of upgrade, and there are some freeware packages.
To Breathe is to have life; To Code is to live!
The licensing is almost identical to XP licensing. It simply isn't a big issue. Here's a good summary: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=4548[^]
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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How does it have no effect on me? It means I have to either buy new computers or $1100 worth in Windows licenses.
$1100 worth? How? This has nothing to do with activation. You can change a serious amount of hardware on your computer without reactivating and can easily reactivate it even if it's triggered.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Changing the video card does not affect this. Do note that the license refers to transfering the operating system to a new device, NOT activations.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
What about motherboards? nVidia is in the chipset business and then there are all the taiwanese mainboard manufacturers. Again what constitutes a new device in MS's eyes?