What sort of best practices coding do you use?
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Do you/your company enforce best practices? Do you do code reviews to enforce them, or use FxCop or other automated means? If you don't adhere to any best practice document/utility, why not? Would you agree or disagree that most of us don't use coding best practices? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithIs one of the most misused issues in the field. Often best practices migrates into programming exactly like person X wants because person X is the boss and the justification is best practices. Deviation from "best" practices becomes an offense. And slowly the code migrates into an unmaintainable heap. But it doesn't matter, the project will be scrapped in a few years and a new guy can dictate "best" practices.
On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage
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Do you/your company enforce best practices? Do you do code reviews to enforce them, or use FxCop or other automated means? If you don't adhere to any best practice document/utility, why not? Would you agree or disagree that most of us don't use coding best practices? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithWe have to do peer reviews every 2 or 3 weeks and we must use FXCop. I have to admit I hated it in the first place, but it forces you to take the good habits. Now I actually could not use FXCop just because I learned how to do it "well" or at least compliant :~ . We are actually trying to get the third level of CMMi...
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Dustin Metzgar wrote:
It would be nice to work at a place that actually does code reviews because I think it would make people think twice before putting in kludges or failing to comment complicated sections.
I would like it because I feel like I would learn something. But then again, if one is in a position of constantly reviewing code from less senior people, and there really isn't anyone senior to oneself in experience, I guess that's where places like Code Project come in. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithThere is code review at the company I work for and it is good and bad. Almost everyone who does .Net programming is on a code review team. Each team is a mix of experienced senior level developers, mid-level developers, and then novices. This approach works well as everyone is learning from everyone else. However, it is detrimental in a way because each group looks at different items more closely than others and as a result application have more trouble meshing will with other applications than they should have. Also, there are two types of comments that code reviewers make. Critical items and recommended. A developer can choose to ignore recommended comments depending on how difficult or time consuming a change, or how lazy the programmer is. The critical items however can only be overturned by two managers. In ways, code review does slow down development but if done right, everyone learns from everyone else and applications follow a certain standard company wide.
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Marc Clifton wrote:
use coding best practices
The best practive is not to allow crap coders near code. Seriously though, dont let crap coders near code. No, but seriously, if you have god engineers, who know their job and you can trust, you dont need any controll at all. Provided you test heavilly. Mind you, drivers are GUI less, with simple interfaces, that go wrong spectacularly. So they are kind of easy to test... Q: 'Did it BSOD yet today?' A: 'No' 'OK, it passed testing'
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
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Do you/your company enforce best practices? Do you do code reviews to enforce them, or use FxCop or other automated means? If you don't adhere to any best practice document/utility, why not? Would you agree or disagree that most of us don't use coding best practices? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smithwe use most Microsoft best practices with a few exceptions. We put _ in front of class variables (among a few other things).
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Do you/your company enforce best practices? Do you do code reviews to enforce them, or use FxCop or other automated means? If you don't adhere to any best practice document/utility, why not? Would you agree or disagree that most of us don't use coding best practices? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithMarc Clifton wrote:
Do you/your company enforce best practices? Do you do code reviews to enforce them, or use FxCop or other automated means?
Well I tried... I tried to get the company to adopt some best practises but I haven't met with much success. I work to my own guidelines for the stuff I write and whilst I can't code-review my own stuff, I do use FxCop where I can. I bet most of use don't fully use coding best practises. We all have our own ways of thinking about what is best which means we soon come into conflict with other people's defined best practises.
Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
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Do you/your company enforce best practices? Do you do code reviews to enforce them, or use FxCop or other automated means? If you don't adhere to any best practice document/utility, why not? Would you agree or disagree that most of us don't use coding best practices? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithMarc Clifton wrote:
Do you/your company enforce best practices? Do you do code reviews to enforce them, or use FxCop or other automated means?
I'm a contractor. I try to follow best practices but my current client does not enforce them or do code reviews. I've only worked at one place in my past 12 years in programming where code reviews have been conducted and even there they weren't done properly.
Marc Clifton wrote:
Would you agree or disagree that most of us don't use coding best practices?
Yes. Certainly 90% of the code I've ever maintained has been pretty poor just on basic readability and maintainability. I've noticed there seems to be a bit of an inverse correlation between being academically bright and writing readable code. Also, most programmers do not read books about programming, e.g., books such as Code Complete, Refactoring, etc., as opposed to books on specific software products, e.g., SQL Server 2005. I would guess that a lot of people on codeproject are above average though. The fact that they hang out here is by itself indicative. Most programmers don't bother with such things.
Kevin
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I would agree most places don't have best practices. Only one place I've worked at actually does code reviews and that was because they were using the agile programming methodology. It would be nice to work at a place that actually does code reviews because I think it would make people think twice before putting in kludges or failing to comment complicated sections.
Dustin Metzgar wrote:
or failing to comment complicated sections.
How about failing to comment any sections? I've been unfortunate enough to have to maintain such code.:mad: The code I'm maintaining now also has next to no comments.:mad:
Kevin
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We're a C++ shop, mostly doing non-UI stuff. We tend to work to Herb Sutter and Alexei Alexandrescus C++ Coding Standards[^]. They are enforced through code review. I think we're the exception rather than the rule - and that's because we're an adjunct to a safety critical software team that works to DO178B level A, so has very stringent standards (we code safety-critical stuff with SPARK Ada[^]).
A quick look at the site - I see you have some Design by Contract stuff in there.:) I wish C#, C++ etc. could have such things - properly integrated. Maybe some of that Spec# stuff will get rolled into C# some time soon?
Kevin
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A quick look at the site - I see you have some Design by Contract stuff in there.:) I wish C#, C++ etc. could have such things - properly integrated. Maybe some of that Spec# stuff will get rolled into C# some time soon?
Kevin
Kevin McFarlane wrote:
I see you have some Design by Contract stuff in there
SPARK actually goes further than that - suitably annotated, it can prove things like absence of run-time exceptions for integer-based arithmetic (that's integers and fixed-point numbers). It's being used more and more in security related software, because there's a formal, provable semantics for the language...assuming the compiler and processor don'r screw up, of course :)
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Kevin McFarlane wrote:
I see you have some Design by Contract stuff in there
SPARK actually goes further than that - suitably annotated, it can prove things like absence of run-time exceptions for integer-based arithmetic (that's integers and fixed-point numbers). It's being used more and more in security related software, because there's a formal, provable semantics for the language...assuming the compiler and processor don'r screw up, of course :)
I think Spec# has a bit more stuff than DbC too. Not sure how it would compare to SPARK. Anyway, why do you think most of the newer languages did not bother to integrate DbC? Seems like such a good idea to adopt.
Kevin
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Do you/your company enforce best practices? Do you do code reviews to enforce them, or use FxCop or other automated means? If you don't adhere to any best practice document/utility, why not? Would you agree or disagree that most of us don't use coding best practices? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithWe don't have a formal standard, but we do use PC-Lint extensively (funny, that!). To support that, we use books such as "Effective C++", "More Effective C++", "Imperfect C++" etc. pretty heavily. As a micro-ISV we're pragmatic about it: if anyone points out what they think is a bad practice in our code, we look into it and refactor it if appropriate. In the long term such changes can add-up to significant improvements. I find much of it is common sense, once you have a source that discusses relevant issues. Of course, for a larger team a more formalised approach may be better, but I've yet to see a team that does it well without descending into "my way is best" politics.
Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
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I think Spec# has a bit more stuff than DbC too. Not sure how it would compare to SPARK. Anyway, why do you think most of the newer languages did not bother to integrate DbC? Seems like such a good idea to adopt.
Kevin
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Do you/your company enforce best practices? Do you do code reviews to enforce them, or use FxCop or other automated means? If you don't adhere to any best practice document/utility, why not? Would you agree or disagree that most of us don't use coding best practices? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithI like Guidance Explorer, MSDN & I need to check if the latest FxCop passes its own tests
_________________________________________ Give a man a fish you've fed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you've fed him for life."... I guess I should write an article rather than giving out tips.
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Do you/your company enforce best practices? Do you do code reviews to enforce them, or use FxCop or other automated means? If you don't adhere to any best practice document/utility, why not? Would you agree or disagree that most of us don't use coding best practices? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithWe tries to adhere to the recommendations in "Code Complete", except for comments below module level -- They are traded for "Self Documenting Code"... Jupp, sometimes you get rather cumbersome names ( = refactoring time).
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Dustin Metzgar wrote:
or failing to comment complicated sections.
How about failing to comment any sections? I've been unfortunate enough to have to maintain such code.:mad: The code I'm maintaining now also has next to no comments.:mad:
Kevin
I used to place inline comments, but I stopped doing so, simply because if something isn't able to be understood by reading the variable/method names and summary, examples, params, exceptions, etc in the class/method header documentation (C# shop here), then I refactor it until it is simple to understand... What's the saying...if debugging is twice as hard as coding, then by definition if your code is as clever as you can write it, you will not be able to debug it. Did I mention that GhostDoc is a god-send? :)
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I really hate this fucking keyboard...
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
And you code with it?
regards, Paul Watson Ireland FeedHenry needs you
eh, stop bugging me about it, give it a couple of days, see what happens.
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Do you/your company enforce best practices? Do you do code reviews to enforce them, or use FxCop or other automated means? If you don't adhere to any best practice document/utility, why not? Would you agree or disagree that most of us don't use coding best practices? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithOn our shared source repo we are Nazis and you had better be sure what you check-in is at least as good as the crap of the Gods. Otherwise we rely more on testing and informal, periodic code reviews. We do have Fxcop equivalents but they won't break the build.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland FeedHenry needs you
eh, stop bugging me about it, give it a couple of days, see what happens.
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Do you/your company enforce best practices? Do you do code reviews to enforce them, or use FxCop or other automated means? If you don't adhere to any best practice document/utility, why not? Would you agree or disagree that most of us don't use coding best practices? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithMarc Clifton wrote:
Do you/your company enforce best practices? Do you do code reviews to enforce them, or use FxCop or other automated means? If you don't adhere to any best practice document/utility, why not? Would you agree or disagree that most of us don't use coding best practices?
Hmm... well, my last company didn't have an enforcement policy on following best practices, but it did document many of the processes we considered were good on our development wiki. We also practiced some agile... err... practices, embracing a variable subset of Extreme Programming based on our own judgement. This meant pair programming, test-first design (probably the best thing since sliced bread (and coffee)), opportunistic refactoring, javadoccing and commenting as much as we felt was needed (mostly, not a lot of comments at all), extreme planning (another nice approach to breaking down problems) and using source-control with mostly-continuous integration. Nobody can do everything, so as always, it was a case of comprimising and optimising the variables based on our own evolving heuristic assumptions. However, we didn't do any code reviews during my 6-month stay, although it was always on the cards. Since we had a small team, I think the more experienced permanent cadre guys felt too busy/pressured to get around to it. I've never heard of FxCop - I'll check it out... I'd agree wholeheartedly about the good/bad coders bit. If people are at a poor standard of coding, there's no amount of process improvement/documentation/practices that will make their code good, short of training them up to speed. This needs to be recognised and worked on for real. I think it's usually a fixable problem if the programmer is at all smart and enjoys programming - otherwise they just shouldn't be in this business. :) Oisín
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In-house crap coders - you can train them to do better. Out-sourced coders - there are too many variables. See earlier thread from Marc Clifton and my replies to him.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
In-house crap coders - you can train them to do better.
Not necessarily. Some "programmers" are completely untrainable as far as best practices, standards, and style are concerned.
Grim
(aka Toby)
MCDBA, MCSD, MCP+SB
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