XML....so what?
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Saw some article about XML and databases, did not say anything really except that XML is so great everybody wants it. And everywhere else you see the same thing, oh!..XML is the best thing since "whatever". I dont get it, what is all the fuzz about? To me it's just a glorified textfile. Yes, you know the format and can exchange data between systems, but you still have to know what is in what tag in the file and where it should go. I think all you gain by XML is not having to write a parser. (or just 1 if you write the XML parser yourself) /:bob:
There are at least five different ways you can use XML data format (I forgot the link where I found this). Probably the simplest use is as a replacement of conventional .ini files. Unlike .ini files, XML can help you to save your setting data as tree - like structured format. However the greatest strength of XML lies in the newly emerging Web service business. Using XML web services, web developers can format proprietary data into generic XML format and publish them to the outside world using WSDL / UDDI. This would let other web developers to access your data though standard protocol such as SOAP (Simple Object Access Protocol). Thus in short, XML is quickly becoming the de facto language of the web, letting web applications talking to each other. It doesn't really matter which language or hardware is used to develop these web services, since at the end, they all use the same language (XML) and the same protocol (SOAP). // Fazlul
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I don't see them extending XML. However, I can see them playing fast and loose with standards such as SOAP. Tim Smith I know what you're thinking punk, you're thinking did he spell check this document? Well, to tell you the truth I kinda forgot myself in all this excitement. But being this here's CodeProject, the most powerful forums in the world and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question, Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk?
Tim Smith wrote: However, I can see them playing fast and loose with standards such as SOAP You've got to be careful when you reach for the SOAP... :wtf: "There is a fine line between lunacy and genius; it is my goal in life to keep them guessing just where the line lies..." -- Unknown
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There are at least five different ways you can use XML data format (I forgot the link where I found this). Probably the simplest use is as a replacement of conventional .ini files. Unlike .ini files, XML can help you to save your setting data as tree - like structured format. However the greatest strength of XML lies in the newly emerging Web service business. Using XML web services, web developers can format proprietary data into generic XML format and publish them to the outside world using WSDL / UDDI. This would let other web developers to access your data though standard protocol such as SOAP (Simple Object Access Protocol). Thus in short, XML is quickly becoming the de facto language of the web, letting web applications talking to each other. It doesn't really matter which language or hardware is used to develop these web services, since at the end, they all use the same language (XML) and the same protocol (SOAP). // Fazlul
Get RadVC today! Play RAD in VC++ http://www.capitolsoft.com
Fazlul Kabir wrote: This would let other web developers to access your data though standard protocol such as SOAP (Simple Object Access Protocol). Thus in short, XML is quickly becoming the de facto language of the web, letting web applications talking to each other This is going to be worse than ActiveX controls, and Outlook. I'm not going to trust Microsoft, and expose all my critical data on the internet to be hacked and exploited. When they fix IIS, and the basic fundemental problems plauging Windows and Office, maybe I'll reconsider...But even that looks like a long way off. I see a potential security nightmare that may even destroy MS's great success. .NET is a big uncertainty in my book becuase MS has failed in securing the basics.
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There are at least five different ways you can use XML data format (I forgot the link where I found this). Probably the simplest use is as a replacement of conventional .ini files. Unlike .ini files, XML can help you to save your setting data as tree - like structured format. However the greatest strength of XML lies in the newly emerging Web service business. Using XML web services, web developers can format proprietary data into generic XML format and publish them to the outside world using WSDL / UDDI. This would let other web developers to access your data though standard protocol such as SOAP (Simple Object Access Protocol). Thus in short, XML is quickly becoming the de facto language of the web, letting web applications talking to each other. It doesn't really matter which language or hardware is used to develop these web services, since at the end, they all use the same language (XML) and the same protocol (SOAP). // Fazlul
Get RadVC today! Play RAD in VC++ http://www.capitolsoft.com
that's the part that i don't buy. it's not enough that they are all using the same language; "they" also have to be using that language to encode the same kind of data. if two similar programs X and Y encode their data in XML but they store different data, then where's the benefit? XML does no good unless all parties involved agree on what they're storing, the schema to use and the kinds of things you can do with the data. all XML does is establish a mid-level communications protocol. people still have to agree on the high and low level details. -c
Civilization is the limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities. Mark Twain
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Saw some article about XML and databases, did not say anything really except that XML is so great everybody wants it. And everywhere else you see the same thing, oh!..XML is the best thing since "whatever". I dont get it, what is all the fuzz about? To me it's just a glorified textfile. Yes, you know the format and can exchange data between systems, but you still have to know what is in what tag in the file and where it should go. I think all you gain by XML is not having to write a parser. (or just 1 if you write the XML parser yourself) /:bob:
Another way to define XML is that XML is the way to describe a data, as opposed to HTML designed to present a data. And because of that XML is the best thing since the sliced bread.:) Igor.
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There are at least five different ways you can use XML data format (I forgot the link where I found this). Probably the simplest use is as a replacement of conventional .ini files. Unlike .ini files, XML can help you to save your setting data as tree - like structured format. However the greatest strength of XML lies in the newly emerging Web service business. Using XML web services, web developers can format proprietary data into generic XML format and publish them to the outside world using WSDL / UDDI. This would let other web developers to access your data though standard protocol such as SOAP (Simple Object Access Protocol). Thus in short, XML is quickly becoming the de facto language of the web, letting web applications talking to each other. It doesn't really matter which language or hardware is used to develop these web services, since at the end, they all use the same language (XML) and the same protocol (SOAP). // Fazlul
Get RadVC today! Play RAD in VC++ http://www.capitolsoft.com
Yes, im aware of that and i agree that it is good with a standard. I am not trying to say XML is bad, i just dont understand all the glory it gets. Somebody just have agreed on a standard for a textfile. You could as well talk with SOAP trough "SoapTalk" and it would still be accessible from all languages,hardware,systems, but if it was so "SoapTalk" would never get the hype XML is getting. Although as i said i thnk its better to use XML than a SOAP specific format. And as for .ini files, why would i want to store them as XML, as a user i want some nice GUI to edit whatever is stored there, i dont care how it is stores, i just want it to load fast and dont take up much diskspace. /:beer:
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Another way to define XML is that XML is the way to describe a data, as opposed to HTML designed to present a data. And because of that XML is the best thing since the sliced bread.:) Igor.
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Another way to define XML is that XML is the way to describe a data, as opposed to HTML designed to present a data. And because of that XML is the best thing since the sliced bread.:) Igor.
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i think you've hit all the major points. as i see it, XML is just a easy-to-understand way of moving data from one place to another, or to transform that data from one form to another. someday people will stop trying to use it to solve every problem. -c
Civilization is the limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities. Mark Twain
:-D Yes, there's a bit of a recurring joke now where I work where when anybody states a problem that they're having difficulty with they get the same response from many directions: Ah, you'll need to use XML for that then. Q: I need a data transfer protocol? A: Ah, you'll want XML for that. Q: I want to log a bunch of simple data to a text file. A: Why don't you use XML! Q: I need a hedgehog! A: I can define one of those in XML if you'd like. Try it, it's the answer to all of your coding problems. I think if I see one more pointless use of XML I'll scream. Yes, you can do clever stuff with it and it has its uses. No, it's not the messiah - it's a very naughty boy. -- Simon Steele Programmers Notepad - http://www.pnotepad.org/
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Tim Smith wrote: However, I can see them playing fast and loose with standards such as SOAP You've got to be careful when you reach for the SOAP... :wtf: "There is a fine line between lunacy and genius; it is my goal in life to keep them guessing just where the line lies..." -- Unknown
Daniel Ferguson wrote: You've got to be careful when you reach for the SOAP... ...Cause you might drop it and have to bend over... :)
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Igor Vigdorchik wrote: XML is the best thing since the sliced bread What was the best thing before sliced bread? :) Thomas
Sliced bread is the first best thing. Igor.
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that's the part that i don't buy. it's not enough that they are all using the same language; "they" also have to be using that language to encode the same kind of data. if two similar programs X and Y encode their data in XML but they store different data, then where's the benefit? XML does no good unless all parties involved agree on what they're storing, the schema to use and the kinds of things you can do with the data. all XML does is establish a mid-level communications protocol. people still have to agree on the high and low level details. -c
Civilization is the limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities. Mark Twain
Chris Losinger wrote: XML does no good unless all parties involved agree on what they're storing, the schema to use and the kinds of things you can do with the data. That is the job of W3, who oversees SOAP standardization // Fazlul
Get RadVC today! Play RAD in VC++ http://www.capitolsoft.com
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That's another thing, whats so good about sliced bread!? People are just to damned lazy, or did they use to cut their fingers off? :) :-D ;P /:wtf:
I'm lazy and I'm afraid to cut my fingers off. Igor.
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Fazlul Kabir wrote: This would let other web developers to access your data though standard protocol such as SOAP (Simple Object Access Protocol). Thus in short, XML is quickly becoming the de facto language of the web, letting web applications talking to each other This is going to be worse than ActiveX controls, and Outlook. I'm not going to trust Microsoft, and expose all my critical data on the internet to be hacked and exploited. When they fix IIS, and the basic fundemental problems plauging Windows and Office, maybe I'll reconsider...But even that looks like a long way off. I see a potential security nightmare that may even destroy MS's great success. .NET is a big uncertainty in my book becuase MS has failed in securing the basics.
Martin Marvinski wrote: I'm not going to trust Microsoft, and expose all my critical data on the internet to be hacked and exploited. Remeber, XML is only a data format spec, the real brain to use XML formatted data lies the SOAP protocals used by web services. There are some very complex and restrictive security features already built into SOAP / XML web services. // Fazlul
Get RadVC today! Play RAD in VC++ http://www.capitolsoft.com
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Martin Marvinski wrote: I'm not going to trust Microsoft, and expose all my critical data on the internet to be hacked and exploited. Remeber, XML is only a data format spec, the real brain to use XML formatted data lies the SOAP protocals used by web services. There are some very complex and restrictive security features already built into SOAP / XML web services. // Fazlul
Get RadVC today! Play RAD in VC++ http://www.capitolsoft.com
Fazlul Kabir wrote: Remeber, XML is only a data format spec, the real brain to use XML formatted data lies the SOAP protocals used by web services I meant SOAP. Those security features most likely will have as many holes as swiss cheese. I would bet my life on the fact that MS's implementation will have serious flaws. Look at XP, it was supposed to be the "most secure". The same was said for Windows 2000. I don't believe the Bullsh*t MS says about it's security. Windows is good for the client side, and for home/consumer use such as games. I would fire any IT professional who used XML and SOAP from MS if I ran a Mission critical enterprise. Once it comes out, there will be attacks, and other such mishaps that will ruin MS's reputation. Once I see Outlook and Windows as secure, I may reconsider my opinion, but once again, I don't see that happening. MS needs to change their culture and stop hiring kids to write enterprise level sh*t.
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Chris Losinger wrote: XML does no good unless all parties involved agree on what they're storing, the schema to use and the kinds of things you can do with the data. That is the job of W3, who oversees SOAP standardization // Fazlul
Get RadVC today! Play RAD in VC++ http://www.capitolsoft.com
i'm not convinced. there's no way they're going to hit every problem domain, and even if they did, some company would come along and say "hmm.. This w3 standard is crimping our ability to Innovate. we can do X or Y better if we transmit our data this way." -c
Civilization is the limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities. Mark Twain
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Igor Vigdorchik wrote: XML is the best thing since the sliced bread What was the best thing before sliced bread? :) Thomas
living past 35 -c
Civilization is the limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities. Mark Twain
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i think you've hit all the major points. as i see it, XML is just a easy-to-understand way of moving data from one place to another, or to transform that data from one form to another. someday people will stop trying to use it to solve every problem. -c
Civilization is the limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities. Mark Twain
Chris Losinger wrote: someday people will stop trying to use it to solve every problem. I'm surprised you're so cynical - I can't tell you how my graphics filters improved when I started storing the images as XML. jpeg FF FF AA AA DD DD Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
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:-D Yes, there's a bit of a recurring joke now where I work where when anybody states a problem that they're having difficulty with they get the same response from many directions: Ah, you'll need to use XML for that then. Q: I need a data transfer protocol? A: Ah, you'll want XML for that. Q: I want to log a bunch of simple data to a text file. A: Why don't you use XML! Q: I need a hedgehog! A: I can define one of those in XML if you'd like. Try it, it's the answer to all of your coding problems. I think if I see one more pointless use of XML I'll scream. Yes, you can do clever stuff with it and it has its uses. No, it's not the messiah - it's a very naughty boy. -- Simon Steele Programmers Notepad - http://www.pnotepad.org/
Simon Steele wrote: I think if I see one more pointless use of XML I'll scream. You should express your anger in an XML file :) -:suss:Matt Newman / Windows XP Activist:suss: -Sonork ID: 100.11179:BestSnowman
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Igor Vigdorchik wrote: XML is the best thing since the sliced bread What was the best thing before sliced bread? :) Thomas
Thomas George wrote: What was the best thing before sliced bread? Presumably, unsliced bread. ;P ____________________ David Wulff There was a young man called Dave, Who dug up a prositutes grave, She was mouldy as shìt, And missing a tit, But look at the money he saved. Dave's Code Project Screensaver and Wallpaper page.