Why Vista?
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are these the same people who are voting down everyone who's unimpressed with Vista ?
No, that would be me, voting down the high-horse techno zealots. ;)
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: God-as-Judge, God-as-Forgiver The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
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1. It's my PC, noone else to worry about. 2. U set the desktop to Win2k style, less bloated. 3. Games? Not me. In my case I'll stick to XP as long as possible. Maybe Vista's successor will be better. Elaine :rose:
Elaine, you didn't address the searching, the search folders, the better security? Ah well. I wonder, what did you think of XP when you were running Windows 98?
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: God-as-Judge, God-as-Forgiver The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
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Judah Himango wrote:
Start menu that makes sense: every machine I go to, you click the Start->rograms and *booom!* the whole screen fills with program entries. Vista's new Start Menu solves this problem by making the menu a limited size with scrolling.
The option to choose between a multicolumn or a scrolling startmenu if you have alot of icons exists in XP. I don't recall where, but do remember having to switch from scrolling to multicolumn before. Other features that I've cooled over the descriptions of are per app volume control at the OS level. Mute the browser so embedded audio anoyances aren't heard. Double or tripple the volume on my DVD player so I don't blow my ear drums in switchig back to winamp after watching a movie. Delete in explorer reports undeletable files, but doesn't halt on the first error reported. Sound (and some other??) drivers moved out of the kernal so they won't bluescreen you when they crash. I'm not sure which version I'll get, but my fall07/spring08 PC will probably be running some version of it.
-- Rules of thumb should not be taken for the whole hand.
Ah yes, I forgot about the driver changes; at least sound and video drivers are outside the kernel. And because of that, fewer blue screens (which are almost always due to bad drivers). :cool:
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: God-as-Judge, God-as-Forgiver The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
Neat & Groovy set of eye candy. Again, sexy for geeks, but no real tangible benefit.
I'm a nerd rather than a geek, and I don't like eye candy in my OS. Such things are not for nerds (and I doubt geeks want them either), they are for everyday users who don't know any better -- i.e. most of Microsoft's market share. I like icons and toolbars that are small, non-distracting, and customizable. I'm now running IE7 which I hear is a precursor to Vista, but I hate hate hate the oversized buttons and crap, I want a "classic" mode. I probably won't go to Vista. I did install the Beta 1 on a system which is now collecting dust in a closet. I hope Vista goes the way of ME, I'll wait for the next one.
PIEBALDconsult wrote:
I'm a nerd rather than a geek, and I don't like eye candy in my OS. Such things are not for nerds (and I doubt geeks want them either), they are for everyday users who don't know any better -- i.e. most of Microsoft's market share.
Speak for yourself! I love the UI enhancements. I think the XP look is cool and Vista is better, and I'm certainly not an "everyday user" as you put it...
Ryan
"Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"
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Not sure, but I've been reading that a lot of corporate customers are taking a second look at Linux because they perceive Vista as being such a major upgrade and so short on new features and value that it's time to see what else is out there. Apparently the perception is that Linux is a viable alternative now to windows for corporate settings. I'm definitely looking into the state of .net on linux when I get some free time. I'd love to port our main business app to Linux as an excercise in learning and if it's doable and not too time consuming release it and see what the percentage of sales there are for it.
John Cardinal wrote:
but I've been reading that a lot of corporate customers are taking a second look at Linux because they perceive Vista as being such a major upgrade and so short on new features and value that it's time to see what else is out there. Apparently the perception is that Linux is a viable alternative now to windows for corporate settings.
That's interesting. Microsoft puts out a product that is perceived as a major upgrade and no real new features and value. Soooo...Suddenly that puts it on par with shifting to Linux--it's a major, well, change, and the features/value should be equivalent. Interesting effect. A product upgrade that actually loses customers because they see it as an opportunity to finally jump ship. I can remember certain precedences in the past like that as well. For example, when MFC transitioned from 16 bit OS to 32 bit OS, a lot of it broke (IIRC). I decided that instead of investing into MFC all over again, I'd write my own layer around it so my applications wouldn't completely break, only the framework. Anyways. I'm with you. I'd like to play with linux and .net, but free time is definitely a difficult thing to find right now. What would be interesting would be to get a bunch of people together who all want to do this, and distribute tasks out to each and have them report on their tasks. I think this would make the whole process less daunting. Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
I know that a certain amount of you will want anything new just because it's the latest & greatest toy to play with. So, we'll scratch that reason up front as I'm talking about tangible benefits. Vista will also sport a new Neat & Groovy set of eye candy. Again, sexy for geeks, but no real tangible benefit. Having arbitrarily eliminated those two reasons, what are the functional benefits of upgrading to Vista? In other words, besides having a ton of new security / permissions hassles to deal with (not to mention compatibility problems that seem to dwarf all predecessors), what will I actually be able to do with Vista that I can't already do with XP?
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
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John Cardinal wrote:
but I've been reading that a lot of corporate customers are taking a second look at Linux because they perceive Vista as being such a major upgrade and so short on new features and value that it's time to see what else is out there. Apparently the perception is that Linux is a viable alternative now to windows for corporate settings.
That's interesting. Microsoft puts out a product that is perceived as a major upgrade and no real new features and value. Soooo...Suddenly that puts it on par with shifting to Linux--it's a major, well, change, and the features/value should be equivalent. Interesting effect. A product upgrade that actually loses customers because they see it as an opportunity to finally jump ship. I can remember certain precedences in the past like that as well. For example, when MFC transitioned from 16 bit OS to 32 bit OS, a lot of it broke (IIRC). I decided that instead of investing into MFC all over again, I'd write my own layer around it so my applications wouldn't completely break, only the framework. Anyways. I'm with you. I'd like to play with linux and .net, but free time is definitely a difficult thing to find right now. What would be interesting would be to get a bunch of people together who all want to do this, and distribute tasks out to each and have them report on their tasks. I think this would make the whole process less daunting. Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithMarc Clifton wrote:
Anyways. I'm with you. I'd like to play with linux and .net, but free time is definitely a difficult thing to find right now.
Yup, definitely. We have a smallish app that we've been selling for some years now that we're going to be porting to .net when the current project is down to a dull roar. That might be the perfect candidate to put out a linux and windows version if experimentation proves it's fairly easy to develop cross platform with mono or whatever is out there at the time. The target market is small business and home users, it would be interesting to see what the percentage of sales are. That's really my bottom line on this, if Vista is really causing people to jump ship then I want to be in the water with a life raft as early as possible. The timing was defnitely not good a year or so ago when I last put any amount of time into investigating the viability of selling linux apps, but it seems like things are turning a bit lately.
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I've got the first issue of the new MSCoder mag today and they mention DotGNU and Portable.NET. Don't know what it is yet and how it compares to Mono.NET, but you might want to google for it. It's kinda funny that MSCoder is the "independent magazine for developers using Microsoft platforms" and the first CD of the first issue is a Linux live CD. :-D
Andre Buenger wrote:
It's kinda funny that MSCoder is the "independent magazine for developers using Microsoft platforms" and the first CD of the first issue is a Linux live CD
That is funny. I'll look into mono on linux in depth in a few months from now probably when time permits, good to know there is more buzz about it now. I looked at Mono back in the early days probably when it was less than a year old and saw how far it had to go and moved on at the time. I'm sure it's much more developed at this point.
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Elaine, you didn't address the searching, the search folders, the better security? Ah well. I wonder, what did you think of XP when you were running Windows 98?
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: God-as-Judge, God-as-Forgiver The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
In a single user environment XP's security is fine - I have a firewall and antivirus and am fine. Search? Barely use it. Next!
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True that -- I was confusing the dead 2000 SP. I actually meant XP SP3.
-------------- TTFN - Kent
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In a single user environment XP's security is fine - I have a firewall and antivirus and am fine. Search? Barely use it. Next!
Trollslayer wrote:
In a single user environment XP's security is fine
Tell that to my brother, who's single user machine was so bogged down with virii and malware there was little option left but a clean install! :) Search...there's so much more than "searching" to search. Virtual folders are very cool and very useful, but you might not realize they are using the excellent search under the hood. IPv6, Windows Internet Computer Name, drivers outside the kernel (thus, fewer blue screens due to bad drivers)...so much more.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: God-as-Judge, God-as-Forgiver The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
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I know that a certain amount of you will want anything new just because it's the latest & greatest toy to play with. So, we'll scratch that reason up front as I'm talking about tangible benefits. Vista will also sport a new Neat & Groovy set of eye candy. Again, sexy for geeks, but no real tangible benefit. Having arbitrarily eliminated those two reasons, what are the functional benefits of upgrading to Vista? In other words, besides having a ton of new security / permissions hassles to deal with (not to mention compatibility problems that seem to dwarf all predecessors), what will I actually be able to do with Vista that I can't already do with XP?
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
While there are a lot of people saying negative things about Vista even though most of them have not used the system, it is much the same when XP came out an people where saying it was Windows ME SP2, but now must of those same people are running XP whining around that they do not want to move to Vista. Those will be running Vista in a year or two like everyone else! Anyway, I have to agree with Judah Himango. Beyond that though, Vista has a backup program that actually works, a user interface that is far superior to XP, and if you are a web developer, IIS7 that will drastically change things once Vista Server comes out. Even now though IIS7 brings with it the ability to run multiple websites on the box just like Windows 2003 server, so you are not limited to just one website node in IIS such as XP Pro. If you upgrade to one of the top models of Vista you also have media center built in, along with Virtual PC (I have had problems with but I am sure it is due to beta versions). Out of all the things that Vista brings though, it is more of the small things that would sell me on it even if none of the features mentioned came with it (although I doubt I would pay as much for the upgrade if it was only the small features). I have started a list of the small things I find handy in Vista, but there are a number of them I forgot to post: http://rockymoore.com/tech/archive/2006/10/28/786.aspx[^] Windows Vista is a "polished" version of Windows with attention to the small details which most people will appriecitate once the use the system for a while. Vista will dominate the Windows market, and for developers that means we better get use to it ASAP. While a good portion of the business world will watch and wait, when they move, developers need to be ready. Another feature is that 64 bit verison actaully works and will be supported for the future as most companies will focus on support moving forward and XP just in not in the picture anymore as a future technology. I am not saying that Vista will be the end all for everyone but it is a great upgrade Windows and comes with many new features and technologies natively not added on to an older platform. Also, .NET now is a full citizen, not just another addon, different tools in Vista are built using .NET and many with .NET in mind. One last note, "some" have mentioned the
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Judah Himango wrote:
Start menu that makes sense: every machine I go to, you click the Start->rograms and *booom!* the whole screen fills with program entries. Vista's new Start Menu solves this problem by making the menu a limited size with scrolling.
The option to choose between a multicolumn or a scrolling startmenu if you have alot of icons exists in XP. I don't recall where, but do remember having to switch from scrolling to multicolumn before. Other features that I've cooled over the descriptions of are per app volume control at the OS level. Mute the browser so embedded audio anoyances aren't heard. Double or tripple the volume on my DVD player so I don't blow my ear drums in switchig back to winamp after watching a movie. Delete in explorer reports undeletable files, but doesn't halt on the first error reported. Sound (and some other??) drivers moved out of the kernal so they won't bluescreen you when they crash. I'm not sure which version I'll get, but my fall07/spring08 PC will probably be running some version of it.
-- Rules of thumb should not be taken for the whole hand.
dan neely wrote:
Delete in explorer reports undeletable files, but doesn't halt on the first error reported.
Give me my Vista! This has always annoyed the crap out of me.
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
Neat & Groovy set of eye candy. Again, sexy for geeks, but no real tangible benefit.
I'm a nerd rather than a geek, and I don't like eye candy in my OS. Such things are not for nerds (and I doubt geeks want them either), they are for everyday users who don't know any better -- i.e. most of Microsoft's market share. I like icons and toolbars that are small, non-distracting, and customizable. I'm now running IE7 which I hear is a precursor to Vista, but I hate hate hate the oversized buttons and crap, I want a "classic" mode. I probably won't go to Vista. I did install the Beta 1 on a system which is now collecting dust in a closet. I hope Vista goes the way of ME, I'll wait for the next one.
Did someone mention Luddite before?
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To be fair you cannot turn off the OS X boot sound without resorting to 3rd party apps or writing your own bash login scripts. Rather annoying.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland FeedHenry needs you
eh, stop bugging me about it, give it a couple of days, see what happens.
What does it sound like? I can't actually remember the last time I rebooted my iBook, though - I vaguely remember logging on a couple of months ago, but since then, it just gets put to sleep when I'm done with it.
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What does it sound like? I can't actually remember the last time I rebooted my iBook, though - I vaguely remember logging on a couple of months ago, but since then, it just gets put to sleep when I'm done with it.
It is a short, quite sharp but low note. I have to reboot to get at Bootcamp when needed.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland FeedHenry needs you
eh, stop bugging me about it, give it a couple of days, see what happens.
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I've posted on this at least twice before in the lounge. Unfortunately the search isn't digging it up. Here are some reason I'm planning on moving to Vista: Security: users run as non-admin by default, which is difficult to do in XP (something I've been doing for over 2 years, and it is a major pain) An improved shell: check out the breadcrumb bars, the save file dialogs -- things have really simplified, and simple is better. Search: search actually works and it's fast (and hey, there's no little doggy :)). And with Search folders, you can basically have dynamic folders that update themselves automatically. For instance, you could have a search folder that contains all image files containing the word family. The folder automatically updates as you save new family photos to your computer. Parental controls: see what games your child has been playing, and for how long. Set time limits on games, rating limits, and at what times they can be played. Haven't looked at internet parental control yet. Start menu that makes sense: every machine I go to, you click the Start->Programs and *booom!* the whole screen fills with program entries. Vista's new Start Menu solves this problem by making the menu a limited size with scrolling. That itself isn't great, but you can type in a search box embedded right in the start menu to find any program. In practice, this if far faster than visually finding some program group floating among a hundred others. DirectX 10: Vista only! If you're a gamer (my wife and I both are) then Vista is a must for this reason alone. Better UI: sure, the eye candy, visuals, and animations makes XP look like Win 3.1, but they've actually improved on UI design. Have a look at this blog post[^] for a quick skim of some changes in Vista's UI design. Those are just some off the top of my head. I suspect Vista will easily supplant XP as the dominant OS in the coming years. *edit* oooh, almost forgot. A new network stack built from the ground up with IPv6 support. In addition to security and performance improvements, it lets you do cool things like Windows Internet Computer Name[^], no Dynamic DNS required. :cool:
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Trollslayer wrote:
In a single user environment XP's security is fine
Tell that to my brother, who's single user machine was so bogged down with virii and malware there was little option left but a clean install! :) Search...there's so much more than "searching" to search. Virtual folders are very cool and very useful, but you might not realize they are using the excellent search under the hood. IPv6, Windows Internet Computer Name, drivers outside the kernel (thus, fewer blue screens due to bad drivers)...so much more.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: God-as-Judge, God-as-Forgiver The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
Was his A/V software up to date? Or present?
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Why the hell not!? Are they mad!? VS2k3 is the last usable IDE in the Visual Studio series.
-- From the Makers of Futurama
VS2003 works fine under Vista in most scenarios. The scenios that don't work can (in most cases) be worked around. The same is true for VS6 and VS2002.
Anna :rose: Linting the day away :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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Was his A/V software up to date? Or present?
That's the whole point. Most home users don't and as a result the net is riddled with botnets. X| Vista could change that - although the change will cause us lots of pain as the tools we use need to do things most user apps don't. Remember Sony's rootkit trick? I doubt if that would even have been possible under Vista with UAC enabled.
Anna :rose: Linting the day away :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"