Professional Advice Needed
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I get both points. The only recourse for me is to approach the guy and settle it once and for all. If he does not want to pay me enough the only thing I can do is to stop work immediately. He would then have to hire someone else to do the installations and provide support. It will also take time for him to get someone else upto speed with the code and resume with enhancements. So far no one has seen the code except me. He might offer me something just for that fear but probably nothing else. I am just confused.
If it's important enought to you and there is enough potential money involved I would consult a lawyer first, the other guy doesn't need to know you did that and at least you are fore-armed with the knowledge of your rights before you approach him, if he is not amenable then you can advise him of his potential liability. Don't feel bad, nearly all of us have been screwed in some fashion at one time or another over these kinds of issues. It's hard to insist on a contract with an old friend (although it appears it wasn't so hard for him but that's between you guys :)) but it's always important as a developer to ask first and foremost "how, how much and when will I get paid for this" before you lift a finger. Any serious company is going to expect this and will feel much better dealing with a developer that knows their worth. Of course your situation is a little different, but the history of software is littered with former friends who became bitter rivals over these kinds of issues. A software project is like a marriage, you never just write the code once then walk away, you're tied to it for as long as there are people who are using it so it's super important to clarify all this right off the start because you are inevitably making a long term committment if everything goes as it should.
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I need an advice, I have been working for a startup Incorporated company for almost 3 years now. We are developing a niche software for specific high tech companies. It has a kind of CMS with workflow capabilities. Now the company is making success. The product I built is in production in four major companies and others are siging up/evaluating. I did that on nights and weekends with no compensation. I have a well paid day job at a fortune 50 company with decent responsi bilities. I am the only developer on the project. I designed, coded the whole thing along with installation and support for clients. I spent about 80-120 hours per month on this taking valuable time from me and my family. It has affected my health and my family balance to say the least. The sole owner is now looking for investors to take the company to the next level with more developers and marketing, sales etc. He also quit his day time job and is probably drawing his salary from this company. My question is this: how should I approach this person about my compensation. Given that I have been with this company from the very beginning and have helped it come to a point where it can be commerically successful, what should be my expectations in terms of remuneration. What incentives should I ask for and what bargaining power I have. Please guide me from your knoledle and experience. I just want to make sure that either I get awarded for the blood and sweat I put in or walk out to get myself and my family time for ourselves. Thanks.
I forgot to ask which state you're in because that can matter. If you're in a right-to-work state, you'll basically get nothing beyond what you can negotiate. Since he holds all the cards, it would be up to him what (if anything) you got. Some states are more strict about labor laws and you could argue that you were exploited and not compensated at all for your employment (be sure to argue that you're an employee). But either way, a lawyer can answer those questions.
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If it's important enought to you and there is enough potential money involved I would consult a lawyer first, the other guy doesn't need to know you did that and at least you are fore-armed with the knowledge of your rights before you approach him, if he is not amenable then you can advise him of his potential liability. Don't feel bad, nearly all of us have been screwed in some fashion at one time or another over these kinds of issues. It's hard to insist on a contract with an old friend (although it appears it wasn't so hard for him but that's between you guys :)) but it's always important as a developer to ask first and foremost "how, how much and when will I get paid for this" before you lift a finger. Any serious company is going to expect this and will feel much better dealing with a developer that knows their worth. Of course your situation is a little different, but the history of software is littered with former friends who became bitter rivals over these kinds of issues. A software project is like a marriage, you never just write the code once then walk away, you're tied to it for as long as there are people who are using it so it's super important to clarify all this right off the start because you are inevitably making a long term committment if everything goes as it should.
I see. I'll definitely get in touch with a lawyer. Hoping that he is open to fair compensation what models can be adopted for it? Stock options, percentage of sales/profits, offer of employment(not lucrative as I am not concerned with my employment), comp. for previous work etc. What are other forms/formulas? What are the pros and cons of each?
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I forgot to ask which state you're in because that can matter. If you're in a right-to-work state, you'll basically get nothing beyond what you can negotiate. Since he holds all the cards, it would be up to him what (if anything) you got. Some states are more strict about labor laws and you could argue that you were exploited and not compensated at all for your employment (be sure to argue that you're an employee). But either way, a lawyer can answer those questions.
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I get both points. The only recourse for me is to approach the guy and settle it once and for all. If he does not want to pay me enough the only thing I can do is to stop work immediately. He would then have to hire someone else to do the installations and provide support. It will also take time for him to get someone else upto speed with the code and resume with enhancements. So far no one has seen the code except me. He might offer me something just for that fear but probably nothing else. I am just confused.
ssmith721 wrote:
It will also take time for him to get someone else upto speed with the code and resume with enhancements. So far no one has seen the code except me.
Well, in my opinion, ball is in your court to get up and walk away. Your former classmate will then have a learning experience of his own :rolleyes:
If you try to write that in English, I might be able to understand more than a fraction of it. - Guffa
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I need an advice, I have been working for a startup Incorporated company for almost 3 years now. We are developing a niche software for specific high tech companies. It has a kind of CMS with workflow capabilities. Now the company is making success. The product I built is in production in four major companies and others are siging up/evaluating. I did that on nights and weekends with no compensation. I have a well paid day job at a fortune 50 company with decent responsi bilities. I am the only developer on the project. I designed, coded the whole thing along with installation and support for clients. I spent about 80-120 hours per month on this taking valuable time from me and my family. It has affected my health and my family balance to say the least. The sole owner is now looking for investors to take the company to the next level with more developers and marketing, sales etc. He also quit his day time job and is probably drawing his salary from this company. My question is this: how should I approach this person about my compensation. Given that I have been with this company from the very beginning and have helped it come to a point where it can be commerically successful, what should be my expectations in terms of remuneration. What incentives should I ask for and what bargaining power I have. Please guide me from your knoledle and experience. I just want to make sure that either I get awarded for the blood and sweat I put in or walk out to get myself and my family time for ourselves. Thanks.
Hi, Some conclusions i make from your question: 1. "I did that on nights and weekends with no compensation" , so you did not receive any payment for your work. 2. You worked three years = 36 months on this project between 80 and 120 hours a month, that's between 2880 and 4320 hours in total. 3. You are currently the only develloper on this project, you could say that all the software that is created for commercial purposes is created by you with the tools you use to build software and your knowledge. 4. The product is ready and up for sales, lease etc, revenue is generated with your work. 5. The product is sold, leased etc to companies for some sort of fee, money is comming in, or deals are made about the usage of the product. 4. You provide installation and support for the product to the users/buyers of this product. This is your part of the story and i have the following questions: Question 1. Did you made any promisses that you would do the work for free? Question 2. If not, did you talk about an hourly price or total fee for your work? Question 3. Did you promisse or agreed that the result of your work would be automatically owned by the Company without talking about a payment or partial ownership in the company for your work? Question 4. Did the owner promissed you some fee or payment for your work? From your remark: "how should I approach this person about my compensation" it seems that all above questions are blank and you have made no hard deal about your work, neither did they! I think that the coding of the software is yours since you have made no deal and received no payment, but it could be that: 1. The idea (concept) of the functions that this software would provide to users is the idea of the company, and you where the person they knew that could realise that concept into a working application, so you have coded the application, you don't own the idea, it's theirs. 2. You have made some suggestions to their idea that are implemented in the end result, in that case you have altered by your work the concept, and part of the endresult is your because of your input in the idea that resulted in the end product. If 2. is true the end result is not totally theirs , and the programming work is yours also since no deal is made. What i would do: I think that you were not clear from the start and they found someone that could realise
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Hi, Some conclusions i make from your question: 1. "I did that on nights and weekends with no compensation" , so you did not receive any payment for your work. 2. You worked three years = 36 months on this project between 80 and 120 hours a month, that's between 2880 and 4320 hours in total. 3. You are currently the only develloper on this project, you could say that all the software that is created for commercial purposes is created by you with the tools you use to build software and your knowledge. 4. The product is ready and up for sales, lease etc, revenue is generated with your work. 5. The product is sold, leased etc to companies for some sort of fee, money is comming in, or deals are made about the usage of the product. 4. You provide installation and support for the product to the users/buyers of this product. This is your part of the story and i have the following questions: Question 1. Did you made any promisses that you would do the work for free? Question 2. If not, did you talk about an hourly price or total fee for your work? Question 3. Did you promisse or agreed that the result of your work would be automatically owned by the Company without talking about a payment or partial ownership in the company for your work? Question 4. Did the owner promissed you some fee or payment for your work? From your remark: "how should I approach this person about my compensation" it seems that all above questions are blank and you have made no hard deal about your work, neither did they! I think that the coding of the software is yours since you have made no deal and received no payment, but it could be that: 1. The idea (concept) of the functions that this software would provide to users is the idea of the company, and you where the person they knew that could realise that concept into a working application, so you have coded the application, you don't own the idea, it's theirs. 2. You have made some suggestions to their idea that are implemented in the end result, in that case you have altered by your work the concept, and part of the endresult is your because of your input in the idea that resulted in the end product. If 2. is true the end result is not totally theirs , and the programming work is yours also since no deal is made. What i would do: I think that you were not clear from the start and they found someone that could realise
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Your are right, there is no mention of money on papers (NDA and code ownership). But I have certainly added countless, significant ideas and alterations to the original concept of the product. This is pertaining to '2' above.
:)
With friendly greetings,:) Eric Goedhart "I love the sound of Servers in the Morning!"
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I see. I'll definitely get in touch with a lawyer. Hoping that he is open to fair compensation what models can be adopted for it? Stock options, percentage of sales/profits, offer of employment(not lucrative as I am not concerned with my employment), comp. for previous work etc. What are other forms/formulas? What are the pros and cons of each?
That's really up to you, but they all essentially boil down to two things: how long do you want your business relationship with the other guy to last for and how successful do you think the product will actually be. Knowing the answer to that will give you the decision to what form of compensation you should go for.
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I need an advice, I have been working for a startup Incorporated company for almost 3 years now. We are developing a niche software for specific high tech companies. It has a kind of CMS with workflow capabilities. Now the company is making success. The product I built is in production in four major companies and others are siging up/evaluating. I did that on nights and weekends with no compensation. I have a well paid day job at a fortune 50 company with decent responsi bilities. I am the only developer on the project. I designed, coded the whole thing along with installation and support for clients. I spent about 80-120 hours per month on this taking valuable time from me and my family. It has affected my health and my family balance to say the least. The sole owner is now looking for investors to take the company to the next level with more developers and marketing, sales etc. He also quit his day time job and is probably drawing his salary from this company. My question is this: how should I approach this person about my compensation. Given that I have been with this company from the very beginning and have helped it come to a point where it can be commerically successful, what should be my expectations in terms of remuneration. What incentives should I ask for and what bargaining power I have. Please guide me from your knoledle and experience. I just want to make sure that either I get awarded for the blood and sweat I put in or walk out to get myself and my family time for ourselves. Thanks.
And now you're asking for free professional advice? :omg: :)
Matt Gerrans
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And now you're asking for free professional advice? :omg: :)
Matt Gerrans