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Adobe Product Activation

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  • D David Wulff

    Apparently it is the same with the newer Photoshop versions too. I am currently using Photoshop 6, but was looking to upgrade to their Creative Suite Premium 2.0 in the new year because I wanted to start using InDesign (and figured I would get locked in to the future upgradibility sooner rather than later the way costs are rising each release). This is a real problem for me as I spent a fortune a few months back upgrading my main workstation with the aim of it lasting a couple of years or more and I'm using a RAID0 array as a result of that. I would like to upgrade to the newer Photoshop to keep my bad design skills up to date, but I can't justify the cost of another PC just to run Adobe products. I am going to try and install Acrobat on a virtual machine and see if I can activate it. At least that would allow me to use it without requiring a new PC, and I could justify using an MSDN Windows license on it ethically if not legally. I don't know if it work yet. Fingers crossed...


    Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
    Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
    I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk

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    Anders Molin
    wrote on last edited by
    #22

    I have Photoshop CS2 on a PC with an Adaptec 320 SCSI RAID 0, works fine. I also have dualboot between XP and Vista on the same drive.

    - Anders My new photo website[^]

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    • D David Wulff

      That is something I hope to try tomorrow or (more likely) Thursday. It will add extra overhead to using the software. The machine I would be using can handle it but it is the hassle of having to share the documents between the virtual machine and the host that I'm not looking forward to. I've read horror stories about how the Adobe activation software has trashed disk partitions so I'm concerned now that I might have damaged my Vista install. I've just finished setting up the damned machine and I really don't want to have to start again! Uninstalling the unactivated Acrobat doesn't remove the activation software which remains on your machine permanently -- updating its hidden boot sector data every time your machine boots. :mad:


      Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
      Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
      I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk

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      Anders Molin
      wrote on last edited by
      #23

      Download a crack for it...

      - Anders My new photo website[^]

      D 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • A Anders Molin

        Download a crack for it...

        - Anders My new photo website[^]

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        David Wulff
        wrote on last edited by
        #24

        I wouldn't trust that at all - the reason I have never had a virus is because I keep away from things like that. I'm also fairly sure the next update would only revert it back to failing it's activation every time I reboot? Given that the activation software modified sectors at the start of my disk/s I wouldn't trust some cracked software to not fuck my machine up and leave me right up the creek without a paddle. You mentioned you have Photoshop CS2 installed on RAID0. AFAIK that is a more recent product than Acrobat 7.0 so maybe they have resolved the whole RAID problem? Does it still use SafeCast for licensing? I think Flexlm was first, then SafeCast. I dont have any problems with Flexlm licensed software on this machine, such as AutoCAD 2004 LT which activated fine. Or maybe your RAID controller handles things differently? I don't understand how it all works, but the must write something to the start of your disks because they aren't recognisable individually until they are reformatted? Maybe your controller doesn't use the sector that Adobe is writing to and mine/others do?


        Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
        Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
        I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk

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        • D David Wulff

          I wouldn't trust that at all - the reason I have never had a virus is because I keep away from things like that. I'm also fairly sure the next update would only revert it back to failing it's activation every time I reboot? Given that the activation software modified sectors at the start of my disk/s I wouldn't trust some cracked software to not fuck my machine up and leave me right up the creek without a paddle. You mentioned you have Photoshop CS2 installed on RAID0. AFAIK that is a more recent product than Acrobat 7.0 so maybe they have resolved the whole RAID problem? Does it still use SafeCast for licensing? I think Flexlm was first, then SafeCast. I dont have any problems with Flexlm licensed software on this machine, such as AutoCAD 2004 LT which activated fine. Or maybe your RAID controller handles things differently? I don't understand how it all works, but the must write something to the start of your disks because they aren't recognisable individually until they are reformatted? Maybe your controller doesn't use the sector that Adobe is writing to and mine/others do?


          Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
          Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
          I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk

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          Anders Molin
          wrote on last edited by
          #25

          David Wulff wrote:

          Does it still use SafeCast for licensing?

          I don't know, any way I can find out for you?

          - Anders My new photo website[^]

          D 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • A Anders Molin

            David Wulff wrote:

            Does it still use SafeCast for licensing?

            I don't know, any way I can find out for you?

            - Anders My new photo website[^]

            D Offline
            D Offline
            David Wulff
            wrote on last edited by
            #26

            Have a look in your application data directory (probably local settings) and see if you have a directory under Adobe or Adobe Shared with a bunch of binary dat or bf1 files in it. If you do, and you also have a service called Adobelmsvc, then that should indicate SafeCast. If you have a file on your disk called Lmgrd.exe then it is probbaly Flexlm. I don't think SafeCast also uses Lmgrd but as I already have flexlm installed on this machine I can't be sure.


            Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
            Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
            I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk

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            • D David Wulff

              Have a look in your application data directory (probably local settings) and see if you have a directory under Adobe or Adobe Shared with a bunch of binary dat or bf1 files in it. If you do, and you also have a service called Adobelmsvc, then that should indicate SafeCast. If you have a file on your disk called Lmgrd.exe then it is probbaly Flexlm. I don't think SafeCast also uses Lmgrd but as I already have flexlm installed on this machine I can't be sure.


              Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
              Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
              I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk

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              A Offline
              Anders Molin
              wrote on last edited by
              #27

              Only thing I can find is C:\ProgramData\Adobe Systems\Product licenses\ with a file called B2B86000.dat

              - Anders My new photo website[^]

              D 1 Reply Last reply
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              • A Anders Molin

                Only thing I can find is C:\ProgramData\Adobe Systems\Product licenses\ with a file called B2B86000.dat

                - Anders My new photo website[^]

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                D Offline
                David Wulff
                wrote on last edited by
                #28

                That sounds like SafeCast. Do you also have the Adobelmsvc service?


                Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
                Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
                I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk

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                • D David Wulff

                  That sounds like SafeCast. Do you also have the Adobelmsvc service?


                  Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
                  Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
                  I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk

                  A Offline
                  A Offline
                  Anders Molin
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #29

                  Yep

                  - Anders My new photo website[^]

                  D 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • A Anders Molin

                    Yep

                    - Anders My new photo website[^]

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                    David Wulff
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #30

                    It seems you are a lucky guy then. The Adobe licensing gods must look down on you with a smile. :sigh: I'm using the onboard RAID controllers on my motherboard which is an "Intel(R) 82801GR/GH SATA RAID Controller". I don't have any external cards I could use instead, and even then I seriously doubt the arrays would transfer over.


                    Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
                    Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
                    I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk

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                    • D David Wulff

                      It seems you are a lucky guy then. The Adobe licensing gods must look down on you with a smile. :sigh: I'm using the onboard RAID controllers on my motherboard which is an "Intel(R) 82801GR/GH SATA RAID Controller". I don't have any external cards I could use instead, and even then I seriously doubt the arrays would transfer over.


                      Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
                      Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
                      I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk

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                      Anders Molin
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #31

                      Hmm, all this stuff sounds strange... Most Photoshop installs runs on some serious workstations, I'll bet most of those have raids... Anyway, maybe I'm lucky because I have a SCSI raid? ;)

                      - Anders My new photo website[^]

                      D 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • D David Wulff

                        I've been tracking this one down over the last couple of weekw as part of my attempt to move all my day-to-day tasks from Windows XP over to Windows Vista: I have been unable to activate Adobe Acrobat Professional 7.0 (stand alone, not part of the Creative Suite) on my new machine. After having already gone through the Adobe telephone activation and finding the clerk unable to help me, I was advised to contact my reseller for support. Well today (Boxing Day) I finally got a response back. It seems that you cannot install newer Adobe products on RAID arrays. Adobe are aware of the problem - but they have no plans to do anything about it. Yep that's right, your investment in higher speed and redundancy on your development and design workstation is useless if you want to use newer Adobe products. Apparently the activation software they use writes hidden sectors to the boot drive of your system drive and is unable to cope with RAID arrays (and in certain cases dual boot systems that write to the same sectors of the disk that their activation software uses). The official Adobe workaround is... (I hope you are sitting comfortably):

                        Reinstall the Adobe application on a single hard disk. Running an Adobe application on a RAID array may cause activation problems. If you installed the application on a RAID array and the application returns activation errors, reinstall and activate the application on a single hard disk on which Windows is installed and which is separate from the disk array.

                        You have to reinstall Windows on a single hard drive and use that installation to run and activate Adobe software. I wonder if Microsoft will let me have that second Windows license for free... or should I just phone Adobe for the cost code? Now that is service! I'm going to spend a few more hours trying to get this to work, so if anyone has succeeded in getting a recent Adobe product (specificaly Acrobat 7) activated on a RAID array then please let me know. I will buy you a pack of beer if you can help me get this working. If I can't get it working then I will be contacting Adobe for a refund - even though I was using the software fine under XP for six months. If they complain I will take Adobe Systems UK to small claims court[^]. The great irony there is that you need Adobe Acrobate Reader to fi

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                        code frog 0
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #32

                        Someone is lying to you. I'm running it on Windows 2003 Enterprise Server with RAID 0+1 and it activates just fine. This is Adobe CS not the latest and greatest it's the release right before that. This is going to sound really bad (and I deserve all the 1 votes I'm going to get for this) but if you have a legit copy and you paid the full-boat and fair price for it... Fire up a Linux box go get a run-time patch and crack the activation. (May not work on Vista, never tried it.) Before you whack me a well deserved 1 for that suggestion understand the angle I'm coming from. Full-price paying users who legitimately own software should not be denied it's use under reasonable circumstances. Now you can click the 1 if you still think I earned it. But don't be surprised if I'm not hear to receive it. My 9 Iron and I are taking a joy-ride over to Adobe to see if we can sway the intentions of management by creating a few divots in their collective craniums.:cool:

                        D 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • D David Wulff

                          I've been tracking this one down over the last couple of weekw as part of my attempt to move all my day-to-day tasks from Windows XP over to Windows Vista: I have been unable to activate Adobe Acrobat Professional 7.0 (stand alone, not part of the Creative Suite) on my new machine. After having already gone through the Adobe telephone activation and finding the clerk unable to help me, I was advised to contact my reseller for support. Well today (Boxing Day) I finally got a response back. It seems that you cannot install newer Adobe products on RAID arrays. Adobe are aware of the problem - but they have no plans to do anything about it. Yep that's right, your investment in higher speed and redundancy on your development and design workstation is useless if you want to use newer Adobe products. Apparently the activation software they use writes hidden sectors to the boot drive of your system drive and is unable to cope with RAID arrays (and in certain cases dual boot systems that write to the same sectors of the disk that their activation software uses). The official Adobe workaround is... (I hope you are sitting comfortably):

                          Reinstall the Adobe application on a single hard disk. Running an Adobe application on a RAID array may cause activation problems. If you installed the application on a RAID array and the application returns activation errors, reinstall and activate the application on a single hard disk on which Windows is installed and which is separate from the disk array.

                          You have to reinstall Windows on a single hard drive and use that installation to run and activate Adobe software. I wonder if Microsoft will let me have that second Windows license for free... or should I just phone Adobe for the cost code? Now that is service! I'm going to spend a few more hours trying to get this to work, so if anyone has succeeded in getting a recent Adobe product (specificaly Acrobat 7) activated on a RAID array then please let me know. I will buy you a pack of beer if you can help me get this working. If I can't get it working then I will be contacting Adobe for a refund - even though I was using the software fine under XP for six months. If they complain I will take Adobe Systems UK to small claims court[^]. The great irony there is that you need Adobe Acrobate Reader to fi

                          N Offline
                          N Offline
                          Neville Franks
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #33

                          I'm going through a RAID learning curve right now so this might not be correct but from what I understand if you have a separate hardware raid controller card the OS and apps don't know there is RAID. OTOH if you are using a motherboard RAID setup they do. What are you using?

                          Neville Franks, Author of Surfulater www.surfulater.com "Save what you Surf" and ED for Windows www.getsoft.com

                          D 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • N Neville Franks

                            I'm going through a RAID learning curve right now so this might not be correct but from what I understand if you have a separate hardware raid controller card the OS and apps don't know there is RAID. OTOH if you are using a motherboard RAID setup they do. What are you using?

                            Neville Franks, Author of Surfulater www.surfulater.com "Save what you Surf" and ED for Windows www.getsoft.com

                            D Offline
                            D Offline
                            David Wulff
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #34

                            The RAID is onboard, so through my motherboard.


                            Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
                            Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
                            I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk

                            N 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • C code frog 0

                              Someone is lying to you. I'm running it on Windows 2003 Enterprise Server with RAID 0+1 and it activates just fine. This is Adobe CS not the latest and greatest it's the release right before that. This is going to sound really bad (and I deserve all the 1 votes I'm going to get for this) but if you have a legit copy and you paid the full-boat and fair price for it... Fire up a Linux box go get a run-time patch and crack the activation. (May not work on Vista, never tried it.) Before you whack me a well deserved 1 for that suggestion understand the angle I'm coming from. Full-price paying users who legitimately own software should not be denied it's use under reasonable circumstances. Now you can click the 1 if you still think I earned it. But don't be surprised if I'm not hear to receive it. My 9 Iron and I are taking a joy-ride over to Adobe to see if we can sway the intentions of management by creating a few divots in their collective craniums.:cool:

                              D Offline
                              D Offline
                              David Wulff
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #35

                              code-frog wrote:

                              Someone is lying to you

                              Check out item 4 on this page: http://www.adobe.com/support/techdocs/330627.html[^]

                              4. Reinstall the Adobe application on a single hard disk. Running an Adobe application on a RAID array may cause activation problems. If you installed the application on a RAID array and the application returns activation errors, reinstall and activate the application on a single hard disk on which Windows is installed and which is separate from the disk array.

                              It has already been discovered that it works on some RAID setups but not others. The only common thing right now seems to be that the working ones are using external RAID controllers. How is yours set up?

                              code-frog wrote:

                              Fire up a Linux box go get a run-time patch and crack the activation

                              I am not going to do that (or vote you a 1). I don't trust the people who write cracks and I sure as hell am not going to let one into my business. If the activation software hides things in sectors at the start of my hard disk, the very last thing I want is some unauthorised unsupported crack doing the same. At least if they are using the Macrovision shit I have someone I can sue if it all goes tits up and I start losing working hours. It looks like a virtual machine is the way to go, but I can't try that till tomorrow. It sucks, but if it keeps me legal and keeps me working then it is a necessary evil to deal with. :sigh: BTW: Is Adobe CS the version that comes with Acrobat 7.0?


                              Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
                              Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
                              I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk

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                              • A Anders Molin

                                Hmm, all this stuff sounds strange... Most Photoshop installs runs on some serious workstations, I'll bet most of those have raids... Anyway, maybe I'm lucky because I have a SCSI raid? ;)

                                - Anders My new photo website[^]

                                D Offline
                                D Offline
                                David Wulff
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #36

                                Anders Molin wrote:

                                Most Photoshop installs runs on some serious workstations, I'll bet most of those have raids...

                                I would doubt that. Most companies I have worked with use off-the-shelf workstations from Dell and his friends, and most of those are not configured for RAID. That said, they only cliam it may not work, so there is very likely something else in play here. So far your differences amount to, well, everything. SCSI RAID and an external controller, compared to my onboard SATA RAID. http://www.adobe.com/support/techdocs/330627.html[^] (Item 4).


                                Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
                                Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
                                I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk

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                                • D David Wulff

                                  The RAID is onboard, so through my motherboard.


                                  Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
                                  Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
                                  I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk

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                                  Neville Franks
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #37

                                  A solution might be to use a proper hardware raid card, but as I said I'm just learning about this stuff. The motherboard raid is referred to as software raid or fake raid as it uses the CPU and drivers to do the raid processing. You'd have to start from scratch with your install though. There are several advantages of true hardware raid. ex. You can move the controller card and drives to another PC and everything should work. It is faster (for mirrored raid) and doesn't use your CPU. You don't need to install RAID drivers when you install Windows (F6), at least I think that's the case. I've just built a new mATX AMD PC with nVidia RAID on the motherboard. This is my first experience with raid and am trying to learn as much as I can.

                                  Neville Franks, Author of Surfulater www.surfulater.com "Save what you Surf" and ED for Windows www.getsoft.com

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • D David Wulff

                                    code-frog wrote:

                                    Someone is lying to you

                                    Check out item 4 on this page: http://www.adobe.com/support/techdocs/330627.html[^]

                                    4. Reinstall the Adobe application on a single hard disk. Running an Adobe application on a RAID array may cause activation problems. If you installed the application on a RAID array and the application returns activation errors, reinstall and activate the application on a single hard disk on which Windows is installed and which is separate from the disk array.

                                    It has already been discovered that it works on some RAID setups but not others. The only common thing right now seems to be that the working ones are using external RAID controllers. How is yours set up?

                                    code-frog wrote:

                                    Fire up a Linux box go get a run-time patch and crack the activation

                                    I am not going to do that (or vote you a 1). I don't trust the people who write cracks and I sure as hell am not going to let one into my business. If the activation software hides things in sectors at the start of my hard disk, the very last thing I want is some unauthorised unsupported crack doing the same. At least if they are using the Macrovision shit I have someone I can sue if it all goes tits up and I start losing working hours. It looks like a virtual machine is the way to go, but I can't try that till tomorrow. It sucks, but if it keeps me legal and keeps me working then it is a necessary evil to deal with. :sigh: BTW: Is Adobe CS the version that comes with Acrobat 7.0?


                                    Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
                                    Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
                                    I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk

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                                    code frog 0
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #38

                                    External Raid Controllers? (code-frog's eyes glass over) I don't have a clue. I know mine is hardware not software but that's all I know. My comments on the crack are an expression of my own annoyance at all this anti-piracy stuff (which I fully support, it's just hard when it bites honest people). I also had no idea this was a business related issue. I agree with you on that. My work PC doesn't go onto the internet at all (except for activation and updates). Actually the version I have was bundled with Acrobat 6.0 and I've never upgraded. I know I should I just haven't. I'm cheap I want dual or quad core first. Now where's that greedy-beedy-eyes icon at?

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • D David Wulff

                                      I've been tracking this one down over the last couple of weekw as part of my attempt to move all my day-to-day tasks from Windows XP over to Windows Vista: I have been unable to activate Adobe Acrobat Professional 7.0 (stand alone, not part of the Creative Suite) on my new machine. After having already gone through the Adobe telephone activation and finding the clerk unable to help me, I was advised to contact my reseller for support. Well today (Boxing Day) I finally got a response back. It seems that you cannot install newer Adobe products on RAID arrays. Adobe are aware of the problem - but they have no plans to do anything about it. Yep that's right, your investment in higher speed and redundancy on your development and design workstation is useless if you want to use newer Adobe products. Apparently the activation software they use writes hidden sectors to the boot drive of your system drive and is unable to cope with RAID arrays (and in certain cases dual boot systems that write to the same sectors of the disk that their activation software uses). The official Adobe workaround is... (I hope you are sitting comfortably):

                                      Reinstall the Adobe application on a single hard disk. Running an Adobe application on a RAID array may cause activation problems. If you installed the application on a RAID array and the application returns activation errors, reinstall and activate the application on a single hard disk on which Windows is installed and which is separate from the disk array.

                                      You have to reinstall Windows on a single hard drive and use that installation to run and activate Adobe software. I wonder if Microsoft will let me have that second Windows license for free... or should I just phone Adobe for the cost code? Now that is service! I'm going to spend a few more hours trying to get this to work, so if anyone has succeeded in getting a recent Adobe product (specificaly Acrobat 7) activated on a RAID array then please let me know. I will buy you a pack of beer if you can help me get this working. If I can't get it working then I will be contacting Adobe for a refund - even though I was using the software fine under XP for six months. If they complain I will take Adobe Systems UK to small claims court[^]. The great irony there is that you need Adobe Acrobate Reader to fi

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                                      Just me at will_george something
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #39

                                      I saw .. What kind of music should programmers listen to? From your post I'd say the 'BLUES'.. (I love it but just me) Thanks I loved your post! I 'WAS' going to get Vista!

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • D David Wulff

                                        I've been tracking this one down over the last couple of weekw as part of my attempt to move all my day-to-day tasks from Windows XP over to Windows Vista: I have been unable to activate Adobe Acrobat Professional 7.0 (stand alone, not part of the Creative Suite) on my new machine. After having already gone through the Adobe telephone activation and finding the clerk unable to help me, I was advised to contact my reseller for support. Well today (Boxing Day) I finally got a response back. It seems that you cannot install newer Adobe products on RAID arrays. Adobe are aware of the problem - but they have no plans to do anything about it. Yep that's right, your investment in higher speed and redundancy on your development and design workstation is useless if you want to use newer Adobe products. Apparently the activation software they use writes hidden sectors to the boot drive of your system drive and is unable to cope with RAID arrays (and in certain cases dual boot systems that write to the same sectors of the disk that their activation software uses). The official Adobe workaround is... (I hope you are sitting comfortably):

                                        Reinstall the Adobe application on a single hard disk. Running an Adobe application on a RAID array may cause activation problems. If you installed the application on a RAID array and the application returns activation errors, reinstall and activate the application on a single hard disk on which Windows is installed and which is separate from the disk array.

                                        You have to reinstall Windows on a single hard drive and use that installation to run and activate Adobe software. I wonder if Microsoft will let me have that second Windows license for free... or should I just phone Adobe for the cost code? Now that is service! I'm going to spend a few more hours trying to get this to work, so if anyone has succeeded in getting a recent Adobe product (specificaly Acrobat 7) activated on a RAID array then please let me know. I will buy you a pack of beer if you can help me get this working. If I can't get it working then I will be contacting Adobe for a refund - even though I was using the software fine under XP for six months. If they complain I will take Adobe Systems UK to small claims court[^]. The great irony there is that you need Adobe Acrobate Reader to fi

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                                        ksklein
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #40

                                        I went through this same problem. Don't accept the reinstall. Call support and they will give you a special version that activates differently. I had to go through the reactivation three times before they would give it to me, but they finally did.

                                        D 1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • K ksklein

                                          I went through this same problem. Don't accept the reinstall. Call support and they will give you a special version that activates differently. I had to go through the reactivation three times before they would give it to me, but they finally did.

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                                          David Wulff
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #41

                                          I will admit I haven't been through the direct Adobe support yet - their telephone grunt told me to go through my reseller instead. I'll give Greymatter a call in the morning and ask them about that - it sounds like that is exactly what I need!


                                          Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
                                          Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
                                          I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk

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