Is this a good thing?
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A couple of days ago a guy asked for assistance "getting over the beginner hump" in the General Discussions forum. He's a C# programmer; his request said, "I am looking for something that would walk a person through completion of a mildly complex program, starting from the design and planning phase and ending with a final release product." I offered to walk him through a re-write of our Plain English development system in C# - without cost or obligation. This offer was met, surprisingly, with strong resistance and nasty remarks from many; and - thankfully - with a few words of support from others. Fine; everyone has an opinion. But then the offer was "reported as spam or abuse" and deleted by the powers that be. Is this a good thing?
The Grand Negus wrote:
But then the offer was "reported as spam or abuse" and deleted by the powers that be. Is this a good thing?
Okay - I saw that thread before it was deleted and some of your other recent posts and I figured that at least you were staying on-topic. When the topic didn't directly invoke anything that could do with your Plain English compiler you didn't mention it. When it did mention something you did. Which I think is fair enough. So long as you are actively taking part in the site I don't have a problem with you mentioning your PE compiler from time-to-time. However, for some people I think it has become a bit like the boy who cried wolf. You cried out over and over about your Plain English compiler so often that people are tired of hearing about it. They want to ignore those comments and they want to remove them from the site, so they report it as spam. Just as in the story the villagers thought the boy was spamming them about the presence of a wolf. I think that because of the unfortunate reputation that you seem to have built up you need to be a bit more canny about mentioning your PE compiler.
Upcoming Scottish Developers events: * Glasgow: Tell us what you want to see in 2007 My: Website | Blog | Photos
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Bradml wrote:
Hey good for you. Typing the word Dim isn't such a big task for me... but maybe you are missing fingers?
Clearly, you speak about things you do not understand. Our variable naming and reference methods are not merely different in syntax from the norm, but represent an entirely different - and more natural - way of looking at the matter. But since you've decided to speak before investigating the thing you are speaking about, you wouldn't know that. See James 1:19 for some pertinent advice.
Bradml wrote:
Well if someone went around constantly claiming Visual Basic was gods answer to I.T. then I would probably have hit the spam button (Well maybe just a 1.. but you get the point).
Yes, I do get the point. You are not interested in improving the quality of posts on this site, nor are you interested in increasing the diversity of opinions presented; you're simply interested in expressing your own feelings about things, however ill-conceived and destructive they may be.
The Grand Negus wrote:
See James 1:19 for some pertinent advice
Bible thumping belongs in the Soap Box! :rolleyes: This is a diverse site with some 3M members from all over the world having very diverse political and philosophical views. That doesn’t mean that we can’t all get along in the “no man’s land” known as the CP lounge. In order to make it a friendly environment for everyone there are some basic guidelines; no politics, no religion and no advertising are the “big 3”. Making obscure references to the bible are offensive to some; including me. X| I do not want to go into why because that would be a philosophical discussion not suitable to the lounge. :~ Please show some compassion to your fellow “loungers” who have very different belief systems and respect the diversity that is the lounge. :cool: We will all get along better if we respect each other. :rose:
The Grand Negus wrote:
everyone has an opinion. But then the offer was "reported as spam or abuse" and deleted by the powers that be [from your original post in this thread]
Did it ever occur to you that it may be considered advertising? :rolleyes:
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes
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Bradml wrote:
Basically what you now have is Visual Basic.
I'll have to take exception to that. VB is too terse to be compared with Plain English. COBOL, yes...
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP - Visual Basic
Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
VB is too terse to be compared with Plain English
I never thought I would ever see VB and terse in the same sentence! :wtf:
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes
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The Grand Negus wrote:
See James 1:19 for some pertinent advice
Bible thumping belongs in the Soap Box! :rolleyes: This is a diverse site with some 3M members from all over the world having very diverse political and philosophical views. That doesn’t mean that we can’t all get along in the “no man’s land” known as the CP lounge. In order to make it a friendly environment for everyone there are some basic guidelines; no politics, no religion and no advertising are the “big 3”. Making obscure references to the bible are offensive to some; including me. X| I do not want to go into why because that would be a philosophical discussion not suitable to the lounge. :~ Please show some compassion to your fellow “loungers” who have very different belief systems and respect the diversity that is the lounge. :cool: We will all get along better if we respect each other. :rose:
The Grand Negus wrote:
everyone has an opinion. But then the offer was "reported as spam or abuse" and deleted by the powers that be [from your original post in this thread]
Did it ever occur to you that it may be considered advertising? :rolleyes:
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes
JimmyRopes wrote:
In order to make it a friendly environment for everyone there are some basic guidelines; no politics, no religion and no advertising are the “big 3”.
You missed programming questions. :rolleyes:
Upcoming Scottish Developers events: * Glasgow: Tell us what you want to see in 2007 My: Website | Blog | Photos
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Marc Clifton wrote:
One thing this site has taught me more than just about any other life experience, is not to hold a grudge. It's also really hammered home "you can't control things you're not in charge of". Frankly, I would suggest you continue to develop your ideas and promote your product and just let CP go.
Thanks. And as I've said before, I think you are a fair and reasonable man. But it's not really a "grudge" that we're talking about here - though I can see how it might sound that way. It's more that I don't see any significant encouragement to justify the effort necessary to take steps in the direction you suggested earlier. If and when a light at the end of the tunnel appears, however, I would sincerely hope that I wouldn't let bygones interfere with movement toward that light. Regarding the most recent suggestion above, however, I need to remind you that what you see on these forums is not the whole story. This very thread, for example, generated a request from a person who does not appear on the thread, and the same thing happened just yesterday; it is these people we hope to reach through CodeProject. So, when should the Apostle Paul abandon the Jews and restrict himself entirely to a Gentile ministry? And at what point should Martin Luther make his less-than-graceful exit from the Roman Catholic church? How often should Gene Amdahl go back to IBM and try to convince them he's right, before he sets out on his own? Should Steve Jobs stay at Apple, leave, come back, or leave again? We know that we will most likely, in the end, part company with CodeProject altogether. But now? When so many of the members haven't yet expressed an opinion either way? Well, perhaps...
The Grand Negus wrote:
So, when should the Apostle Paul abandon the Jews and restrict himself entirely to a Gentile ministry?
Soap Box! :rolleyes:
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes
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JimmyRopes wrote:
In order to make it a friendly environment for everyone there are some basic guidelines; no politics, no religion and no advertising are the “big 3”.
You missed programming questions. :rolleyes:
Upcoming Scottish Developers events: * Glasgow: Tell us what you want to see in 2007 My: Website | Blog | Photos
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
JimmyRopes wrote: In order to make it a friendly environment for everyone there are some basic guidelines; no politics, no religion and no advertising are the “big 3”. You missed programming questions.
In order to make it a friendly environment for everyone there are some basic guidelines; no politics, no religion, no programming questions and no advertising are the “big 4”. :~ Thanks Colin! :-O
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes
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Marc Clifton wrote:
One thing this site has taught me more than just about any other life experience, is not to hold a grudge. It's also really hammered home "you can't control things you're not in charge of". Frankly, I would suggest you continue to develop your ideas and promote your product and just let CP go.
Thanks. And as I've said before, I think you are a fair and reasonable man. But it's not really a "grudge" that we're talking about here - though I can see how it might sound that way. It's more that I don't see any significant encouragement to justify the effort necessary to take steps in the direction you suggested earlier. If and when a light at the end of the tunnel appears, however, I would sincerely hope that I wouldn't let bygones interfere with movement toward that light. Regarding the most recent suggestion above, however, I need to remind you that what you see on these forums is not the whole story. This very thread, for example, generated a request from a person who does not appear on the thread, and the same thing happened just yesterday; it is these people we hope to reach through CodeProject. So, when should the Apostle Paul abandon the Jews and restrict himself entirely to a Gentile ministry? And at what point should Martin Luther make his less-than-graceful exit from the Roman Catholic church? How often should Gene Amdahl go back to IBM and try to convince them he's right, before he sets out on his own? Should Steve Jobs stay at Apple, leave, come back, or leave again? We know that we will most likely, in the end, part company with CodeProject altogether. But now? When so many of the members haven't yet expressed an opinion either way? Well, perhaps...
I'll take the challenge. Is there a demo version of the compiler that I can download and have a play around with? If there is, I'm willing to give it a go (and come back and give an impartial review).
the last thing I want to see is some pasty-faced geek with skin so pale that it's almost translucent trying to bump parts with a partner - John Simmons / outlaw programmer
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before. -
Taka Muraoka wrote:
You don't have some innate right to come here and flaunt the rules.
There are no rules on this site. I was not asked, when joining, to agree to anything. There are no stated conditions to which one must agree to become a member here - any user name and any email address, valid or not, will add one to the membership role. These are, as far as I can tell, free and public forums where anyone can post anything. And if you have any doubt, check the Soapbox. My posts are about programming, and issues that confront the world's community of programmers; much more appropriate here, I think, than many of the other, uncensored "contributions".
The Grand Negus wrote:
There are no rules on this site.
Welcome to the Lounge! The Lounge is a place where you can discuss anything that takes your fancy. If you just want to laze about and discuss things that don't quite fit elsewhere, then this is the place. Posting Guideline: The Lounge is rated PG. If you're about to post something you wouldn't want your kid sister to read then don't post it. Do not post programming questions (use the programming forums for that) and please don't post ads. Got a programming question? Try the forums!
It is posted in plain English. Any questions? :rolleyes:
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes
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The Grand Negus wrote:
But then the offer was "reported as spam or abuse" and deleted by the powers that be. Is this a good thing?
Okay - I saw that thread before it was deleted and some of your other recent posts and I figured that at least you were staying on-topic. When the topic didn't directly invoke anything that could do with your Plain English compiler you didn't mention it. When it did mention something you did. Which I think is fair enough. So long as you are actively taking part in the site I don't have a problem with you mentioning your PE compiler from time-to-time. However, for some people I think it has become a bit like the boy who cried wolf. You cried out over and over about your Plain English compiler so often that people are tired of hearing about it. They want to ignore those comments and they want to remove them from the site, so they report it as spam. Just as in the story the villagers thought the boy was spamming them about the presence of a wolf. I think that because of the unfortunate reputation that you seem to have built up you need to be a bit more canny about mentioning your PE compiler.
Upcoming Scottish Developers events: * Glasgow: Tell us what you want to see in 2007 My: Website | Blog | Photos
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
Okay - I saw that thread before it was deleted and some of your other recent posts and I figured that at least you were staying on-topic. When the topic didn't directly invoke anything that could do with your Plain English compiler you didn't mention it. When it did mention something you did. Which I think is fair enough. So long as you are actively taking part in the site I don't have a problem with you mentioning your PE compiler from time-to-time. However, for some people I think it has become a bit like the boy who cried wolf. You cried out over and over about your Plain English compiler so often that people are tired of hearing about it. They want to ignore those comments and they want to remove them from the site, so they report it as spam. Just as in the story the villagers thought the boy was spamming them about the presence of a wolf. I think that because of the unfortunate reputation that you seem to have built up you need to be a bit more canny about mentioning your PE compiler.
Wouldn't it be better if the "some people" you mention could simply be as reasonable as you? Or are you so much better than these others that I shouldn't expect them to respond in the same fair and balanced way? Either you're right (in your response to my post) and they're wrong, or vice-versa. I think you're right, and therefore don't see any need to change. On the other hand, if if turns out that you're unusually and exeptionally and super-humanly meek and understanding and reasonable, and they're just "plain old folks", then I should change to meet these others where they are. The fact is, I don't think reading a post and judging it on its merits - or ignoring it with or without reading it (my name's in the title) - is a super-human feat in any context. And therefore I do expect my fellow men to act like you; in fact, I think it's their duty to do so.
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The Grand Negus wrote:
See James 1:19 for some pertinent advice
Bible thumping belongs in the Soap Box! :rolleyes: This is a diverse site with some 3M members from all over the world having very diverse political and philosophical views. That doesn’t mean that we can’t all get along in the “no man’s land” known as the CP lounge. In order to make it a friendly environment for everyone there are some basic guidelines; no politics, no religion and no advertising are the “big 3”. Making obscure references to the bible are offensive to some; including me. X| I do not want to go into why because that would be a philosophical discussion not suitable to the lounge. :~ Please show some compassion to your fellow “loungers” who have very different belief systems and respect the diversity that is the lounge. :cool: We will all get along better if we respect each other. :rose:
The Grand Negus wrote:
everyone has an opinion. But then the offer was "reported as spam or abuse" and deleted by the powers that be [from your original post in this thread]
Did it ever occur to you that it may be considered advertising? :rolleyes:
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes
JimmyRopes wrote:
Making obscure references to the bible are offensive to some; including me.
If we remove everything that is offensive to anyone, there will be nothing left. The Bible is a well known piece of literature and saying that it shouldn't be referenced here (or anywhere) is ridiculous - if the exact words I'm looking for are in there, why shouldn't I quote them? It's called "free speech", and disallowing such free speech on a public forum is called "religious discrimination" which, in my country, is considered a crime.
JimmyRopes wrote:
Please show some compassion to your fellow “loungers” who have very different belief systems and respect the diversity that is the lounge.
But you've just shown a lack of "compassion" regarding my beliefs and you've further attempted to reduce the diversity of the lounge by disallowing a quote from one of the most famous and widely-read books in the world! Censorship is censorship, whether you're censoring a popular and well-known work or something more obscure.
JimmyRopes wrote:
Did it ever occur to you that it may be considered advertising?
No. There was nothing in the post except a free offer of help.
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The Grand Negus wrote:
There are no rules on this site.
Welcome to the Lounge! The Lounge is a place where you can discuss anything that takes your fancy. If you just want to laze about and discuss things that don't quite fit elsewhere, then this is the place. Posting Guideline: The Lounge is rated PG. If you're about to post something you wouldn't want your kid sister to read then don't post it. Do not post programming questions (use the programming forums for that) and please don't post ads. Got a programming question? Try the forums!
It is posted in plain English. Any questions? :rolleyes:
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes
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I'm going to agree with Joergen here. Make it look less DNN-ish. ;P
And I get on my knees and pray We don't get fooled again
David Stone wrote:
Make it look less DNN-ish.
Hell, what it needs is a professional web designer! Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
I think you should replace the DNN-theme with something that doesn't look like DNN. ;) (When I signed up for CP, it never agreed to stay on topic!)
-- Deciphered from crop circles
Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:
I think you should replace the DNN-theme with something that doesn't look like DNN.
Agreed. Sigh. A web designer I am not. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
David Stone wrote:
Make it look less DNN-ish.
Hell, what it needs is a professional web designer! Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithMaybe the Grand Negus has Active English Pages for ya? "Background is blue. The rest looks fabulous!"
-- Please rise for the Futurama theme song
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Maybe the Grand Negus has Active English Pages for ya? "Background is blue. The rest looks fabulous!"
-- Please rise for the Futurama theme song
Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:
Maybe the Grand Negus has Active English Pages for ya?
You read my mind. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
I'll take the challenge. Is there a demo version of the compiler that I can download and have a play around with? If there is, I'm willing to give it a go (and come back and give an impartial review).
the last thing I want to see is some pasty-faced geek with skin so pale that it's almost translucent trying to bump parts with a partner - John Simmons / outlaw programmer
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.Pete O`Hanlon wrote:
I'll take the challenge. Is there a demo version of the compiler that I can download and have a play around with? If there is, I'm willing to give it a go (and come back and give an impartial review).
If you're serious about undertaking such a thing - it's 25,000 lines in Plain English, plus the time it will take you to formulate your review - write me with an email address and I'll give you a link to the whole shebang. We don't have a "demo" version because we think time- and/or feature-limited programs are nothing but a nuisance. You can reach me here: help@osmosian.com or you can use the email button below.
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Those aren't rules; those are "guidelines". Rules for behavior must be agreed to by the governed (or their representatives) before they become effective - at least in the United States. I wasn't asked to agree to anything when I joined here.
The Grand Negus wrote:
Those aren't rules; those are "guidelines"
Semantics designed to divert attention, but it doesn't work! X|
The Grand Negus wrote:
at least in the United States
What makes you think anyone cares how things are done in the US? :rolleyes:
The Grand Negus wrote:
I wasn't asked to agree to anything when I joined here.
It was assumed, incorrectly with respect to you, that you were joining to benefit from interacting with a diverse group of people. :doh:
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes
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The Grand Negus wrote:
Those aren't rules; those are "guidelines"
Semantics designed to divert attention, but it doesn't work! X|
The Grand Negus wrote:
at least in the United States
What makes you think anyone cares how things are done in the US? :rolleyes:
The Grand Negus wrote:
I wasn't asked to agree to anything when I joined here.
It was assumed, incorrectly with respect to you, that you were joining to benefit from interacting with a diverse group of people. :doh:
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes
JimmyRopes wrote:
It was assumed, incorrectly with respect to you, that you were joining to benefit from interacting with a diverse group of people.
You're right. That's not why we joined, and that's not why we're still here. We're looking, as I've stated on many occasions, for disciples who want to learn our ways and help us with a very difficult and lengthy quest. See our brief Manifesto (www.osmosian.com/manifesto.pdf) for details. Our contribution to this site, nevertheless, is manifold: new and different ideas, lively discussions, sage advice, and free (and nearly-free) software suitable for detailed study and emulation. We've also written three articles that were, unfortunately, deleted.
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
Okay - I saw that thread before it was deleted and some of your other recent posts and I figured that at least you were staying on-topic. When the topic didn't directly invoke anything that could do with your Plain English compiler you didn't mention it. When it did mention something you did. Which I think is fair enough. So long as you are actively taking part in the site I don't have a problem with you mentioning your PE compiler from time-to-time. However, for some people I think it has become a bit like the boy who cried wolf. You cried out over and over about your Plain English compiler so often that people are tired of hearing about it. They want to ignore those comments and they want to remove them from the site, so they report it as spam. Just as in the story the villagers thought the boy was spamming them about the presence of a wolf. I think that because of the unfortunate reputation that you seem to have built up you need to be a bit more canny about mentioning your PE compiler.
Wouldn't it be better if the "some people" you mention could simply be as reasonable as you? Or are you so much better than these others that I shouldn't expect them to respond in the same fair and balanced way? Either you're right (in your response to my post) and they're wrong, or vice-versa. I think you're right, and therefore don't see any need to change. On the other hand, if if turns out that you're unusually and exeptionally and super-humanly meek and understanding and reasonable, and they're just "plain old folks", then I should change to meet these others where they are. The fact is, I don't think reading a post and judging it on its merits - or ignoring it with or without reading it (my name's in the title) - is a super-human feat in any context. And therefore I do expect my fellow men to act like you; in fact, I think it's their duty to do so.
The Grand Negus wrote:
Either you're right (in your response to my post) and they're wrong, or vice-versa. I think you're right, and therefore don't see any need to change. On the other hand, if if turns out that you're unusually and exeptionally and super-humanly meek and understanding and reasonable, and they're just "plain old folks", then I should change to meet these others where they are.
You just don't like to make friends do you?
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness. ~Sheik Abd-al-Kadir
I can't always be wrong ... or can I? -
JimmyRopes wrote:
It was assumed, incorrectly with respect to you, that you were joining to benefit from interacting with a diverse group of people.
You're right. That's not why we joined, and that's not why we're still here. We're looking, as I've stated on many occasions, for disciples who want to learn our ways and help us with a very difficult and lengthy quest. See our brief Manifesto (www.osmosian.com/manifesto.pdf) for details. Our contribution to this site, nevertheless, is manifold: new and different ideas, lively discussions, sage advice, and free (and nearly-free) software suitable for detailed study and emulation. We've also written three articles that were, unfortunately, deleted.
The Grand Negus wrote:
We're looking, as I've stated on many occasions, for disciples who want to learn our ways and help us with a very difficult and lengthy quest.
Therein lays your problem. :rolleyes:
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes