where do they find these web developers???
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Mike Dimmick wrote:
London's dial code is 020 and local numbers are 8 digits.
Ah... I didn't realise that. I've seen so many signs saying 0207 xxx xxxx or 0208 xxx xxxx. Anyway, we do seem to have a complex phone numbering system. And one which is should be validated by a regex in a config file due to the frequency things seem to change.
Upcoming Scottish Developers events: * Glasgow: Tell us what you want to see in 2007 My: Website | Blog | Photos
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
Ah... I didn't realise that. I've seen so many signs saying 0207 xxx xxxx or 0208 xxx xxxx
Don't feel too bad, 90% of the people in London do not realise that. With the rise in mobile phones, many people fail to realise the significance of an STD code.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
My pet hate is when I have to enter a long number, and for ease I uses space, so I can check I did not make any mistakes, e.g. my phone number 0115 939 XXXX, the way I normally write it, and I get a warning saying 'spaces not allowed'. If they check for spaces and give a warning why not simply remove the spaces instead?
"Normal is getting dressed in clothes that you buy for work and driving through traffic in a car that you are still paying for - in order to get to the job you need to pay for the clothes and the car, and the house you leave vacant all day so you can afford to live in it." - Ellen Goodman
I hate that too. I tend to write telephone numbers how I say them, for example 08708610XXX becomes 0870 8610 XXX. Now that wouldn't validate, but it still makes a hell of a lot more sense to me than 08708 610XXX which is how I have been forced to enter it before. Personally, I would like to see the abolition of STD codes as anything but area and service designations. Expand local area calls to cover mutliple code areas within a given locality (for example, my home Tiverton number should be considered local for Exeter and Taunton), and allow us to just have a number without any of this bloody digit grouping. It must cause more problems that it reasonably solves.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
I hate that too. I tend to write telephone numbers how I say them, for example 08708610XXX becomes 0870 8610 XXX. Now that wouldn't validate, but it still makes a hell of a lot more sense to me than 08708 610XXX which is how I have been forced to enter it before. Personally, I would like to see the abolition of STD codes as anything but area and service designations. Expand local area calls to cover mutliple code areas within a given locality (for example, my home Tiverton number should be considered local for Exeter and Taunton), and allow us to just have a number without any of this bloody digit grouping. It must cause more problems that it reasonably solves.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milkThere's a historical reason for the codes the way they are, David. When the telephone systems were built they were relay-based, and each connection was an actual physical circuit from one point to the other. Each central office had a switching set, or several, which carried specific circuits, each identified by a code. My first memory is of a 7-digit code; the first three identified the CO to which the phone line was connected, the last four identified the physical wire into the CO where my phone attached. At that time (early 60s), a single office could handle only one prefix, and calls destined for another location were switched via a trunk line to another CO. On busy days it was not uncommon to get a busy trunk signal because all of the lines available to the next CO were in use. As urban rot set in and cities became more dense, it became necessary to add area codes - another three digits - when all the three-digit codes were used up. These identified the region of the caller and used a different set of trunk lines between regions. Within each area all of the 7-digit codes could be reused, but it was still a direct point to point connection between phones. Now that we have digital switching and virtual circuits that can be dynamically routed there is no logical reason to continue this grouping practice, and in fact most cell phone companies never even implemented it. Here in the Colonies we are now allowed to keep our phone numbers when we change places of residence, but only on cell phone systems. The landline companies are still stuck with the physical limits of central and regional switching systems and continue to use the old ways. When IP telephony gets rolling as it should, I expect that to change. In fact, since the companies are all digital now, there is no technical reason I can think of for them not to change now. The holdout may be because their billing systems are all based on the phone number of the customer and it costs too much to change to address-based billing.
"...a photo album is like Life, but flat and stuck to pages." - Shog9
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*Elaine makes mumbling sounds as she finishes the cholocate*
Trollslayer wrote:
she finishes the cholocate
I have lots more, just lying about the house from the holidays. Let me know if you feel like travelling...;)
"...a photo album is like Life, but flat and stuck to pages." - Shog9
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Todd Smith wrote:
[I can sort of understand why they don't want to update the website - concerns over breaking it.] What's scary about that?
It's scary because it suggests that the site is not well understood by the people that are supposed to be maintaining it; it suggests that either the people responsible for the thing are not competent or that the site is so grossly overcomplicated that comprehending it is an impossibility. And it suggests that this is not an isolated case. How many teeny-boppers do you see gabbing and texting on their cell phones every day; and how many of those same people - even when full grown - do you think will be able to design and manufacture a cell phone? The world is rapidly filling with people who are dependent on technologies that they don't, won't, and can't understand. The hippies of the 1960's gave birth to a generation of MTV-style drifters with insect-like attention spans and they, in turn, gave birth to a generation of arrogant and illiterate head-bangers. If we don't start nurturing both better qualified people and significantly simpler technologies in short order, we're all in trouble. So why does it scare me? Because professional programmers shouldn't be "afraid" to fix the systems they are responsible for. It's their job.
The Grand Negus wrote:
It's scary because it suggests that the site is not well understood by the people that are supposed to be maintaining it;
Heh. The email reply he received indicated that they barely understand the phone system, and have no understanding of how people are actually using the software they wrote. I'd say the idea that something will break if such people make changes is pretty much a given... :rolleyes: :sigh:
---- I just want you to be happy; That's my only little wish...
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The Grand Negus wrote:
And that situation doesn't suggest a serious miscalculation, by someone, somewhere along the way?
If you want to say it will hurt them, no. If you sa it is stupid to design a company this way, yes.
The Grand Negus wrote:
What I'm concerned about is that we're not properly nurturing the technological skills in young people that are necessary to advance (or even maintain) a technological society.
Right, but: Technology became much more complex, your V8 dis-and-reassembling friends would look under a todays cars hood, they'd say "Whoa! Way too complicated for me! I think I'll go shoot some deer." Your implication that this is dangerous for our tech-driven society is dangerous is 100% on spot. I don't see that very black either, because the art of technology has been in the hands of few throughout all ages, and I trust that this and the next generation will still contain the 2% or 3% of gifted individuals that you can't stop or destroy, whatever education system you throw at them. And they'll keep driving technology forward. We are quickly losing the "Grade B" guys, the second rank, that makes the great ideas happen for everybody.
Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Velopers, Develprs, Developers!
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Linkify!|Fold With Us!peterchen wrote:
Technology became much more complex, your V8 dis-and-reassembling friends would look under a todays cars hood, they'd say "Whoa! Way too complicated for me! I think I'll go shoot some deer."
From what i've seen, they go buy and restore 20-30 year old vehicles instead. In some instances, this amounts to building an entire car from parts. The attitudes that drove the early popularity of Linux aren't limited to the computer field...
peterchen wrote:
We are quickly losing the "Grade B" guys, the second rank, that makes the great ideas happen for everybody.
I agree. I've met so many people over the years, who have the desire and aptitude to do simple computer programming. Twenty or so years ago, they'd have been amazing friends with their BASIC skills, working around problems with the relatively simple computer systems of the time. Now... they're Excel "power users", or that guy who frustrates John by messing around with SQL in his database. They're still frustrated by their computer systems, but the barrier to entry is too high and obscure for what should be simple scripts.
---- I just want you to be happy; That's my only little wish...
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Jerry Hammond wrote:
Genius isn't genuis until it's recognised.
Nonsense. Einstein was a genius before he wrote his famous equation down; and when he wrote it down; and he was still a genius when the work was rejected by all of the journals to which he submitted it. He didn't become a genius when he was recognized by others; he was a genius all along.
The Grand Negus wrote:
Nonsense.
The only nonesense I see is your willingness to argue over something you clearly fail to understand. Ask yourself to define genius and then you should be able to fathom the meaning of my one hand clapping analogy.
“Some have an idea that the reason we in this country discard things so readily is because we have so much. The facts are exactly opposite - the reason we have so much is simply because we discard things so readily. We replace the old in return for something that will serve us better.”--Alfred P. Sloan
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feline_dracoform wrote:
Most LAN lines will have 6 digits and the system is tied in with this area, we are aware that customer still have the old fashioned 5 numbers and some depending on the area have 7.
Wow! I've had a seven digit numbers all my life. The following area codes all have 7 digit numbers: 0121: Birmingham 0131: Edinburgh 0141: Glasgow 0151: Liverpool 0161: Manchester 0191: Newcastle 0207: London 0208: London And I think at the last number reorganisation 4 or 5 new areas got 7 digit numbers. The ones above represent the area that have had 7 digits after the area code for as long as I can remember (roughly 30 years). The above list probably represents 20% to 30% of the UK population.
feline_dracoform wrote:
if it is a 7 digit number, please remove your last digit.
What was the point of asking for the phone number at all!
feline_dracoform wrote:
the final joy was the note on the registration page saying that all passwords are case insensitive.
I dread to think how they are actually being stored.
Upcoming Scottish Developers events: * Glasgow: Tell us what you want to see in 2007 My: Website | Blog | Photos
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
The following area codes all have 7 digit numbers: 0207: London 0208: London
NO they do not! London has eight-digit numbers and the (020) code. All (02x) area codes have eight-digit numbers. The formatting rules are generally: 02x + 8 01x1 + 7 011x + 7 01xxx + 6 There are a very small number of exceptions: 01xxx + 5 01xxxx + 5 01xxxx + 4 These are very rare.
modified on Thursday, July 16, 2009 7:12 PM
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feline_dracoform wrote:
I can sort of understand why they don't want to update the website - concerns over breaking it
This is the line in your post that scares me the most.
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
The following area codes all have 7 digit numbers: 0207: London 0208: London
NO they do not! London has eight-digit numbers and the (020) code. All (02x) area codes have eight-digit numbers. The formatting rules are generally: 02x + 8 01x1 + 7 011x + 7 01xxx + 6 There are a very small number of exceptions: 01xxx + 5 01xxxx + 5 01xxxx + 4 These are very rare.
modified on Thursday, July 16, 2009 7:12 PM
catj wrote:
NO they do not!
Given the number of companies that advertise as 0207 XXX XXXX or 0208 XXX XXXX I really couldn't care less. For the 50 million people that actually have to dial the full thing from the rest of the UK it doesn't matter one jot. For the minority that can get away with dialing without needing the initial 020? Well... meh!
User group: Scottish Developers Blog: Can Open... Worms? Everywhere! Quote: Man who stand on hill with mouth open wait long time for roast duck to drop in.
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To reply to that, I do not work in web development. I looked at the regex in question, I can post it if anyone cares, and thought "what idiot wrote this?" but then, I have been using regular expressions in Vim, grep, egrep, fgrep, and others for years, so I know they are always a bit different everywhere. But still, unless JavaScript has really feeble regex support then it could have been done much better and more reliably with a far shorter regex. However I am assuming that this is a big organisation, so you have to go through 87 layers of management to get a customer facing website changed. To me, the code change looked like a 60 second job, but what about the re-testing on every system they check? Sorting out the backend effects... etc. So I don't want to assume it is an end to end simple fix. I learned many years ago that even "obvious and safe" bug fixes can have unexpected side effects :)
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness
feline_dracoform wrote:
To me, the code change looked like a 60 second job, but what about the re-testing on every system they check? Sorting out the backend effects... etc. So I don't want to assume it is an end to end simple fix.
What is the telephone number actually *used* for after you submit it along with your order? If they are happy to accept one that has the final digit missing, or an invented extra digit appended, then I think I can assume that it isn't actually used for anything at all... certainly I wouldn't expect to be getting an order confirmation callback, or a call by a delivery driver half a mile away asking for exact directions to the front door from where he is right now. It sounds like this data field could be simply eliminated. However, even in the most complex systems there's only a limited number of ways of screwing up... is the data of the correct data type to be stored, and is the storage space big enough to store the element? I can't believe that nobody would want to get in there and fix it properly.
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catj wrote:
NO they do not!
Given the number of companies that advertise as 0207 XXX XXXX or 0208 XXX XXXX I really couldn't care less. For the 50 million people that actually have to dial the full thing from the rest of the UK it doesn't matter one jot. For the minority that can get away with dialing without needing the initial 020? Well... meh!
User group: Scottish Developers Blog: Can Open... Worms? Everywhere! Quote: Man who stand on hill with mouth open wait long time for roast duck to drop in.
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
I really couldn't care less.
More than 8 million people can dial just 3xxx xxxx or 7xxx xxxx or 8xxx xxxx to reach any London number from any other London number. That's why you write (020) xxxx xxxx, to show which part is the local number. In areas of the country where new number ranges have been opened up, people are now mis-dialling those new numbers as they are appending digits to the end of the area code that just do not exist. In Sheffield, the 2xx xxxx numbers are all used up and 3xx xxxx numbers are now being issued. The area code is (0114) for both. When faced with an (0114) 3xx xxxx number, many people are dialling 0114 2 3xx xxxx and are therefore connected to the wrong person. In Coventry, the 76xx xxxx numbers are now all used up. New numbers like 77xx xxxx are now being issued. The area code for both is (024). When faced with an (024) 77xx xxxx number many people are either changing the 77 part to 76 or are dialling 024 76 77xx xxxx which obviously connects to the wrong person. Apple knows how this works - and they're all the way over in California. Dial any UK telephone number on an I-Phone 3G S and the number will be correctly formatted on screen with all the gaps in the right places: - 01404 xxxxxx - 0141 xxx xxxx - 0114 xxx xxxx - 024 xxxx xxxx - 07xxx xxxxxx - 08xx xxx xxxx and so on.