The second Holocaust will be different
-
Chris, arguing over disputed land won't be very fruitful. I respect your belief that Jews are on Arab land. That's true in some places. The reverse is true in other places. It's also true the state of Israel has inflicted a lot of hurt on Palestinians, yeah I know. The situation is really tough, though, especially so when we get attacked on an almost weekly basis. One thing I want to ask you is, you seem to have a lot of faith in international law. Are you talking about UN resolutions? Man, I hope not; it's silly to rely on those things for ethical guidance in how nations should act, given that virtually all of the anti-Israel resolutions are introduced by our good friends who endorse Sharia law, hate Jews, hate Westerners, and call us both Jew and Westerner the "Great Satan". :) These same people at the UN recently drew up a public map of the Middle East for the next 5-10 years with boundaries of the nations there: it was by no coincidence that Israel didn't appear on that map. International law indeed...
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Check out this cutie The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
Judah Himango wrote:
One thing I want to ask you is, you seem to have a lot of faith in international law
Nah. No faith in that. But, the borders agreed to must be adhered to. If you (Israel) decide to act on your own and decide which borders to recognize in the face of a previous agreement, then you lose credibility in your arguments.
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
-
Chris S Kaiser wrote:
Who's settling in another's landspace?
Oh, how about the 9000 Jews booted out of their homes in Gush Katif this past summer? Yes, 9000 Jews. Yes, that was a land give-away. For peace. No, we still don't have peace. Or the portion of Jerusalem, or the portions in Gaza, or... we've given away so much land -- big pieces of our already-tiny country -- for peace that has never happened.
Chris S Kaiser wrote:
But at some point it has to be recognized that there isn't any innocence on either side.
Agreed.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Check out this cutie The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
This was to return to the internationally recognized borders. And by that, I mean, that this is land being returned. Not lost. There shouldn't be any settlers in Gaza. Or the West Bank. Jerusalem seems to be a bit different being the holy land to both. But I don't think that this was so much a give away as a return.
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
-
This was to return to the internationally recognized borders. And by that, I mean, that this is land being returned. Not lost. There shouldn't be any settlers in Gaza. Or the West Bank. Jerusalem seems to be a bit different being the holy land to both. But I don't think that this was so much a give away as a return.
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
Chris, tell me why you think we should return to those borders.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Check out this cutie The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
-
Judah Himango wrote:
One thing I want to ask you is, you seem to have a lot of faith in international law
Nah. No faith in that. But, the borders agreed to must be adhered to. If you (Israel) decide to act on your own and decide which borders to recognize in the face of a previous agreement, then you lose credibility in your arguments.
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
Chris S Kaiser wrote:
But, the borders agreed to must be adhered to.
Agreed, unless war happens and borders change. No?
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Check out this cutie The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
-
Chris, tell me why you think we should return to those borders.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Check out this cutie The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
Because Israel agreed to it. No do overs. No deciding to change your mind and take matters into your own hands. Live up to your word. Else you can't cry for help.
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
-
Chris S Kaiser wrote:
But, the borders agreed to must be adhered to.
Agreed, unless war happens and borders change. No?
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Check out this cutie The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
This hasn't been war in the qualified sense. If its war, then it isn't terrorism. Is it civil war? Treaties have to be adhered to to hold any value. If you choose to ignore them, you can't expect to be taken seriously in future negotiations.
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
-
This hasn't been war in the qualified sense. If its war, then it isn't terrorism. Is it civil war? Treaties have to be adhered to to hold any value. If you choose to ignore them, you can't expect to be taken seriously in future negotiations.
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
I was speaking of the war in which the disputed territories were taken by Israel after the invasion by 4 of its hostile Islamic theocratic neighbors: Six Day War[^].
Chris S Kaiser wrote:
Treaties have to be adhered to to hold any value.
I agree. The Oslo Accords guaranteed us peace if we gave up parts of Gaza and the West Bank which we won in the war earlier. We've transfered that land to Palestinian authority, but we still didn't get peace. We were then told to sign the Interim Agreement, assuring us that if we just signed away Bethlehem, Hebron, Jenin, Nablus, Qalqilya, Ramallah, and Tulkarm, peace would reign supreme. Those areas are now under Palestinian rule, but peace never came. We have since been convinced to sign 10 more agreements (citation[^]) that trade land for peace. But somehow, Chris, I suspect we won't have peace until there is no land left for us to live on.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Check out this cutie The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
-
I was speaking of the war in which the disputed territories were taken by Israel after the invasion by 4 of its hostile Islamic theocratic neighbors: Six Day War[^].
Chris S Kaiser wrote:
Treaties have to be adhered to to hold any value.
I agree. The Oslo Accords guaranteed us peace if we gave up parts of Gaza and the West Bank which we won in the war earlier. We've transfered that land to Palestinian authority, but we still didn't get peace. We were then told to sign the Interim Agreement, assuring us that if we just signed away Bethlehem, Hebron, Jenin, Nablus, Qalqilya, Ramallah, and Tulkarm, peace would reign supreme. Those areas are now under Palestinian rule, but peace never came. We have since been convinced to sign 10 more agreements (citation[^]) that trade land for peace. But somehow, Chris, I suspect we won't have peace until there is no land left for us to live on.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Check out this cutie The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
Judah Himango wrote:
But somehow, Chris, I suspect we won't have peace until there is no land left for us to live on.
Who's calling for more land than what was in the treaty?
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
-
Because Israel agreed to it. No do overs. No deciding to change your mind and take matters into your own hands. Live up to your word. Else you can't cry for help.
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
By that logic, the United States ought to return to its original 13 colonies, the UK should disannex Scotland, hell, we might as well all return to our caves. ;) Fact is, the disputed territories were won after Syria, Egypt, Iraq, and Jordan invaded Israel in 1967. Wars change borders. In fact, they define them. If you can name some major nation whose borders were defined outside of war, I'd be more inclined to listen. Now Palestinians are crying about it because their Islamic theocratic allies lost control of territories in war. Like you said Chris, no do overs. :)
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Check out this cutie The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
-
By that logic, the United States ought to return to its original 13 colonies, the UK should disannex Scotland, hell, we might as well all return to our caves. ;) Fact is, the disputed territories were won after Syria, Egypt, Iraq, and Jordan invaded Israel in 1967. Wars change borders. In fact, they define them. If you can name some major nation whose borders were defined outside of war, I'd be more inclined to listen. Now Palestinians are crying about it because their Islamic theocratic allies lost control of territories in war. Like you said Chris, no do overs. :)
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Check out this cutie The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
Its the internationally recognized borders set in 1967 that I'm speaking of.
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
-
Judah Himango wrote:
But somehow, Chris, I suspect we won't have peace until there is no land left for us to live on.
Who's calling for more land than what was in the treaty?
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
The Islamic radicals controlling the Palestinian government, and certain people in the West that don't understand the situation. Gush Katif, for example, was never mentioned in the original treaty, yet just recently 9000 Jews were forced to pack up and leave.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Check out this cutie The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
-
Its the internationally recognized borders set in 1967 that I'm speaking of.
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
Which ones are those? Where are they defined? And by whom? Can you show me some international maps that, for example, show the Golan Heights as belonging to Syria, as it was before the war? Or can you show me a map that shows the West Bank under Jordanian rule, as it was before the war? Chris, no one recognizes this, perhaps spare the few Islamic radicals that don't recognize Israel's existence. Again, the logic you're espousing could be applied to most any other nation in the world. "I think the US should go back to the recognized borders, the ones before the war for Independence." :rolleyes:
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Check out this cutie The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
-
Which ones are those? Where are they defined? And by whom? Can you show me some international maps that, for example, show the Golan Heights as belonging to Syria, as it was before the war? Or can you show me a map that shows the West Bank under Jordanian rule, as it was before the war? Chris, no one recognizes this, perhaps spare the few Islamic radicals that don't recognize Israel's existence. Again, the logic you're espousing could be applied to most any other nation in the world. "I think the US should go back to the recognized borders, the ones before the war for Independence." :rolleyes:
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Check out this cutie The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
There was a treaty signed after in 1967 where borders were established. Israel should stay with what they agreed to or their word isn't worth anything.
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
-
There was a treaty signed after in 1967 where borders were established. Israel should stay with what they agreed to or their word isn't worth anything.
What's in a sig? This statement is false. Build a bridge and get over it. ~ Chris Maunder
So, you're saying Israel signed a treaty agreeing to give away all the land they won in the war? Can you show me that treaty? I just did some deeper research and have found no such treaty being signed by involved parties. (Lots of meaningless UN resolutions backed by Arab parties hoping to get back their land, as expected, but nothing signed by all involved parties).
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Check out this cutie The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango