Hungarian notation
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I've noticed that the C# folks at Microsoft have promoted a different naming convention that uses no variable type prefix. At the same time, I've observed that it's now trendy for people to dislike Hungarian notation. When I first started Windows programming Hungarian was indeed strange to get used to. But then, so was the Windows API. However, these days when I look at variable names without it and am left to either guess or search through the code to determine what the variable type is, I find myself thinking that these variable names are only one step removed from the old Basic days of names such as A, B, etc. Why would a straightforward and easy to grasp system of conveying crucial information to the programmer at a glance suddenly become so unpopular? Is there technical reasoning behind it, or is it just a new generation who feels that they must do things differently than those who came before in order to proclaim their identity?
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
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I've noticed that the C# folks at Microsoft have promoted a different naming convention that uses no variable type prefix. At the same time, I've observed that it's now trendy for people to dislike Hungarian notation. When I first started Windows programming Hungarian was indeed strange to get used to. But then, so was the Windows API. However, these days when I look at variable names without it and am left to either guess or search through the code to determine what the variable type is, I find myself thinking that these variable names are only one step removed from the old Basic days of names such as A, B, etc. Why would a straightforward and easy to grasp system of conveying crucial information to the programmer at a glance suddenly become so unpopular? Is there technical reasoning behind it, or is it just a new generation who feels that they must do things differently than those who came before in order to proclaim their identity?
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
I guess since you can now just hover your mouse over a variable and a tooltip will show you the info you need, then Hungarian notion because a little redundant.
Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
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I've noticed that the C# folks at Microsoft have promoted a different naming convention that uses no variable type prefix. At the same time, I've observed that it's now trendy for people to dislike Hungarian notation. When I first started Windows programming Hungarian was indeed strange to get used to. But then, so was the Windows API. However, these days when I look at variable names without it and am left to either guess or search through the code to determine what the variable type is, I find myself thinking that these variable names are only one step removed from the old Basic days of names such as A, B, etc. Why would a straightforward and easy to grasp system of conveying crucial information to the programmer at a glance suddenly become so unpopular? Is there technical reasoning behind it, or is it just a new generation who feels that they must do things differently than those who came before in order to proclaim their identity?
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
Christopher Duncan wrote:
However, these days when I look at variable names without it and am left to either guess or search through the code to determine what the variable type is, I find myself thinking that these variable names are only one step removed from the old Basic days of names such as A, B, etc.
If the variables are properly named, you wouldn't really have to look up their type.
employeeNameis not going to be adouble, anditemCountis not going to be astring. I was so used to a quasi-Hungarian notation, that I used to use it in my C# code too. But nowadays I am making a strong attempt to use .NET naming guidelines when writing C# - once in a while I still goof up and end up writing Hungarian.Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. (*Sample chapter available online*) -
I've noticed that the C# folks at Microsoft have promoted a different naming convention that uses no variable type prefix. At the same time, I've observed that it's now trendy for people to dislike Hungarian notation. When I first started Windows programming Hungarian was indeed strange to get used to. But then, so was the Windows API. However, these days when I look at variable names without it and am left to either guess or search through the code to determine what the variable type is, I find myself thinking that these variable names are only one step removed from the old Basic days of names such as A, B, etc. Why would a straightforward and easy to grasp system of conveying crucial information to the programmer at a glance suddenly become so unpopular? Is there technical reasoning behind it, or is it just a new generation who feels that they must do things differently than those who came before in order to proclaim their identity?
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
Yes everyone has gone all French with Pascal case :-D
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I've noticed that the C# folks at Microsoft have promoted a different naming convention that uses no variable type prefix. At the same time, I've observed that it's now trendy for people to dislike Hungarian notation. When I first started Windows programming Hungarian was indeed strange to get used to. But then, so was the Windows API. However, these days when I look at variable names without it and am left to either guess or search through the code to determine what the variable type is, I find myself thinking that these variable names are only one step removed from the old Basic days of names such as A, B, etc. Why would a straightforward and easy to grasp system of conveying crucial information to the programmer at a glance suddenly become so unpopular? Is there technical reasoning behind it, or is it just a new generation who feels that they must do things differently than those who came before in order to proclaim their identity?
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
Slow day at the office Chris? Looking for a quick flamewar? :)
Christopher Duncan wrote:
Why would a straightforward and easy to grasp system of conveying crucial information to the programmer at a glance suddenly become so unpopular?
That of course is most certainly a matter of opinion. My opinion is that it's: a) neither straightforward or easy b) can easily get out of date, i.e. the int changes to a double, the char* changes to a string object, etc. c) it makes variable names look ugly - it's just not aesthetically pleasing to the eye d) everyone seems to have their own variations on it My rule is that if you can't figure out what the variable is from it's name, then it's probably got a bad name, and hungarian notation won't help much here, other than to add more letters to the name :)
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Techno Silliness
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I've noticed that the C# folks at Microsoft have promoted a different naming convention that uses no variable type prefix. At the same time, I've observed that it's now trendy for people to dislike Hungarian notation. When I first started Windows programming Hungarian was indeed strange to get used to. But then, so was the Windows API. However, these days when I look at variable names without it and am left to either guess or search through the code to determine what the variable type is, I find myself thinking that these variable names are only one step removed from the old Basic days of names such as A, B, etc. Why would a straightforward and easy to grasp system of conveying crucial information to the programmer at a glance suddenly become so unpopular? Is there technical reasoning behind it, or is it just a new generation who feels that they must do things differently than those who came before in order to proclaim their identity?
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
MS said Jump Left, they all jumped left. MS said Jump Right, they all jumped right.
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I've noticed that the C# folks at Microsoft have promoted a different naming convention that uses no variable type prefix. At the same time, I've observed that it's now trendy for people to dislike Hungarian notation. When I first started Windows programming Hungarian was indeed strange to get used to. But then, so was the Windows API. However, these days when I look at variable names without it and am left to either guess or search through the code to determine what the variable type is, I find myself thinking that these variable names are only one step removed from the old Basic days of names such as A, B, etc. Why would a straightforward and easy to grasp system of conveying crucial information to the programmer at a glance suddenly become so unpopular? Is there technical reasoning behind it, or is it just a new generation who feels that they must do things differently than those who came before in order to proclaim their identity?
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
So which type of Hungarian Notation do you mean?[^]
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I've noticed that the C# folks at Microsoft have promoted a different naming convention that uses no variable type prefix. At the same time, I've observed that it's now trendy for people to dislike Hungarian notation. When I first started Windows programming Hungarian was indeed strange to get used to. But then, so was the Windows API. However, these days when I look at variable names without it and am left to either guess or search through the code to determine what the variable type is, I find myself thinking that these variable names are only one step removed from the old Basic days of names such as A, B, etc. Why would a straightforward and easy to grasp system of conveying crucial information to the programmer at a glance suddenly become so unpopular? Is there technical reasoning behind it, or is it just a new generation who feels that they must do things differently than those who came before in order to proclaim their identity?
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
In my opinion Hungarian notation was a bad idea to begin with. If I have make a class called Address, how do I define a variable of that type? adMyAddress? addrMyAddress? It is totally arbitrary anyway.. For built in types such as int, char, etc. it is annoying to. Suppose you code up your application using a variable "total" and decide to declare it as an int. So you have a variable called iTotal. Suppose later a requirement comes to make it a float. Now every occurance in the code needs to be changed to fTotal. It adds unnecessary overhead in my opinion, and makes your variable names ugly.
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I've noticed that the C# folks at Microsoft have promoted a different naming convention that uses no variable type prefix. At the same time, I've observed that it's now trendy for people to dislike Hungarian notation. When I first started Windows programming Hungarian was indeed strange to get used to. But then, so was the Windows API. However, these days when I look at variable names without it and am left to either guess or search through the code to determine what the variable type is, I find myself thinking that these variable names are only one step removed from the old Basic days of names such as A, B, etc. Why would a straightforward and easy to grasp system of conveying crucial information to the programmer at a glance suddenly become so unpopular? Is there technical reasoning behind it, or is it just a new generation who feels that they must do things differently than those who came before in order to proclaim their identity?
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
Christopher Duncan wrote:
Why would a straightforward and easy to grasp system of conveying crucial information to the programmer at a glance suddenly become so unpopular?
Suddenly? I've hated it since i first saw it - any excuse to ditch it is fine by me... FWIW: the way i heard it explained, The Mad Hungarian originally came up with The Notation as a way to convey meaning as to how the variable would be used. So integers that store coordinates get a different prefix than integers storing measurements which are different than loop counters... This actually makes a bit of sense, if you can be consistent. But the number of times i've seen that done correctly and consistently... well, i could probably count it on the fingers of one foot. Add in all the shitty code out there using incorrect or misleading prefixes, and it becomes an active hindrance. Also, it isn't really Intellisense friendly.
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
Why would a straightforward and easy to grasp system of conveying crucial information to the programmer at a glance suddenly become so unpopular?
Suddenly? I've hated it since i first saw it - any excuse to ditch it is fine by me... FWIW: the way i heard it explained, The Mad Hungarian originally came up with The Notation as a way to convey meaning as to how the variable would be used. So integers that store coordinates get a different prefix than integers storing measurements which are different than loop counters... This actually makes a bit of sense, if you can be consistent. But the number of times i've seen that done correctly and consistently... well, i could probably count it on the fingers of one foot. Add in all the shitty code out there using incorrect or misleading prefixes, and it becomes an active hindrance. Also, it isn't really Intellisense friendly.
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Hear Hear! It was never a good idea.
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In my opinion Hungarian notation was a bad idea to begin with. If I have make a class called Address, how do I define a variable of that type? adMyAddress? addrMyAddress? It is totally arbitrary anyway.. For built in types such as int, char, etc. it is annoying to. Suppose you code up your application using a variable "total" and decide to declare it as an int. So you have a variable called iTotal. Suppose later a requirement comes to make it a float. Now every occurance in the code needs to be changed to fTotal. It adds unnecessary overhead in my opinion, and makes your variable names ugly.
zoid ! wrote:
Suppose later a requirement comes to make it a float. Now every occurance in the code needs to be changed to fTotal.
and how often do you do that without then going to every place you use the variable, to make sure you're not losing precision, generating overflows, truncating, etc ? or do you just change the type and hope for the best ? point is: changing the type is not a one-spot change. you should be revisiting all the code that uses that variable, which gives you a chance to change the name, while you're at it. and when you get right down to it, changing the name is going to make it very easy for you to find all those places, because the compiler is going to angrily point out each and every one of them for you.
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I've noticed that the C# folks at Microsoft have promoted a different naming convention that uses no variable type prefix. At the same time, I've observed that it's now trendy for people to dislike Hungarian notation. When I first started Windows programming Hungarian was indeed strange to get used to. But then, so was the Windows API. However, these days when I look at variable names without it and am left to either guess or search through the code to determine what the variable type is, I find myself thinking that these variable names are only one step removed from the old Basic days of names such as A, B, etc. Why would a straightforward and easy to grasp system of conveying crucial information to the programmer at a glance suddenly become so unpopular? Is there technical reasoning behind it, or is it just a new generation who feels that they must do things differently than those who came before in order to proclaim their identity?
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
Lately, I have only favored perhaps implying the SCOPE of a variable, so m_ means it is a member variable of an object, s_ means it is static and local to the source file, and g_ means it is global - probably to the entire application. Lets you know what you are dealing with if you go to make changes. Other than that, give it a good name.
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Slow day at the office Chris? Looking for a quick flamewar? :)
Christopher Duncan wrote:
Why would a straightforward and easy to grasp system of conveying crucial information to the programmer at a glance suddenly become so unpopular?
That of course is most certainly a matter of opinion. My opinion is that it's: a) neither straightforward or easy b) can easily get out of date, i.e. the int changes to a double, the char* changes to a string object, etc. c) it makes variable names look ugly - it's just not aesthetically pleasing to the eye d) everyone seems to have their own variations on it My rule is that if you can't figure out what the variable is from it's name, then it's probably got a bad name, and hungarian notation won't help much here, other than to add more letters to the name :)
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Techno Silliness
Jim Crafton wrote:
Looking for a quick flamewar?
Not at all! Just something I've been wondering about for quite some time now, figured this would be the most qualified group to ask. I probably should have added that just like the choice of languages and programmers editors, naming conventions are also a religious issue with no "right" or "wrong" to them. That said, I'm willing to bet that if the MS C# team had come up with a variable naming convention that required each variable to start with the number 42 that it would soon be the prevalent method used, and anything else would be considered old fashioned and uncool. :)
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
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I've noticed that the C# folks at Microsoft have promoted a different naming convention that uses no variable type prefix. At the same time, I've observed that it's now trendy for people to dislike Hungarian notation. When I first started Windows programming Hungarian was indeed strange to get used to. But then, so was the Windows API. However, these days when I look at variable names without it and am left to either guess or search through the code to determine what the variable type is, I find myself thinking that these variable names are only one step removed from the old Basic days of names such as A, B, etc. Why would a straightforward and easy to grasp system of conveying crucial information to the programmer at a glance suddenly become so unpopular? Is there technical reasoning behind it, or is it just a new generation who feels that they must do things differently than those who came before in order to proclaim their identity?
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
I like Hungarian notation, and I use it in my C++ code. However, when I began to program in C#, I realized that it was OK to use HN for numbers and strings. Yet I found that using the "obj" prefix was redundant... since everything is an object. So I think that HN is kinda useless in C# except for numeric variables, since I can either begin to create new prefixes for many classes (i.e. strm, xml, evnt) and give birth to a monster, or I can simply avoid HN. The solution for me was obvious though: I stopped programming for C# and returned to good C++ :D
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I guess since you can now just hover your mouse over a variable and a tooltip will show you the info you need, then Hungarian notion because a little redundant.
Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
A reasonable point. However, not everyone writes code in the IDE. In fact, I'm continually surprised that anyone does. :)
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
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Jim Crafton wrote:
Looking for a quick flamewar?
Not at all! Just something I've been wondering about for quite some time now, figured this would be the most qualified group to ask. I probably should have added that just like the choice of languages and programmers editors, naming conventions are also a religious issue with no "right" or "wrong" to them. That said, I'm willing to bet that if the MS C# team had come up with a variable naming convention that required each variable to start with the number 42 that it would soon be the prevalent method used, and anything else would be considered old fashioned and uncool. :)
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
Not at all; unless the compiler enforces it (in which case it's not a "convention" anyway), you can do as you wish.
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In my opinion Hungarian notation was a bad idea to begin with. If I have make a class called Address, how do I define a variable of that type? adMyAddress? addrMyAddress? It is totally arbitrary anyway.. For built in types such as int, char, etc. it is annoying to. Suppose you code up your application using a variable "total" and decide to declare it as an int. So you have a variable called iTotal. Suppose later a requirement comes to make it a float. Now every occurance in the code needs to be changed to fTotal. It adds unnecessary overhead in my opinion, and makes your variable names ugly.
zoid ! wrote:
Suppose you code up your application using a variable "total" and decide to declare it as an int. So you have a variable called iTotal. Suppose later a requirement comes to make it a float. Now every occurance in the code needs to be changed to fTotal.
You're going to have to change all those references to a
floatanyway, so changing the name of the variable does not add any more work.
"Approved Workmen Are Not Ashamed" - 2 Timothy 2:15
"Judge not by the eye but by the heart." - Native American Proverb
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I've noticed that the C# folks at Microsoft have promoted a different naming convention that uses no variable type prefix. At the same time, I've observed that it's now trendy for people to dislike Hungarian notation. When I first started Windows programming Hungarian was indeed strange to get used to. But then, so was the Windows API. However, these days when I look at variable names without it and am left to either guess or search through the code to determine what the variable type is, I find myself thinking that these variable names are only one step removed from the old Basic days of names such as A, B, etc. Why would a straightforward and easy to grasp system of conveying crucial information to the programmer at a glance suddenly become so unpopular? Is there technical reasoning behind it, or is it just a new generation who feels that they must do things differently than those who came before in order to proclaim their identity?
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
Christopher Duncan wrote:
Why would a straightforward and easy to grasp system of conveying crucial information to the programmer at a glance suddenly become so unpopular?
Because it was unnatural to begin with. It's the compiler's job - not the programmer's - to keep track of internal data types and to perform appropriate conversions as required. "Crucial information" at a low level is nothing but distracting noise at a high level. Which of these statements, for example, is simpler and clearer: Put the pen in the drawer. vPut aThe nPen pIn aThe nDrawer. Obviously, the first. And this technique - allowing the lower level systems to handle the details of data type recognition and conversion - obviously works or you wouldn't be able to understand this very post.
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
Why would a straightforward and easy to grasp system of conveying crucial information to the programmer at a glance suddenly become so unpopular?
Because it was unnatural to begin with. It's the compiler's job - not the programmer's - to keep track of internal data types and to perform appropriate conversions as required. "Crucial information" at a low level is nothing but distracting noise at a high level. Which of these statements, for example, is simpler and clearer: Put the pen in the drawer. vPut aThe nPen pIn aThe nDrawer. Obviously, the first. And this technique - allowing the lower level systems to handle the details of data type recognition and conversion - obviously works or you wouldn't be able to understand this very post.
The Grand Negus wrote:
Put the pen in the drawer. vPut aThe nPen pIn aThe nDrawer.
Drawer->PutPen()would be better than both of them :) Because this doesn't really require a full understanding of English grammar and sentence semantics.Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. (*Sample chapter available online*) -
Christopher Duncan wrote:
Why would a straightforward and easy to grasp system of conveying crucial information to the programmer at a glance suddenly become so unpopular?
Suddenly? I've hated it since i first saw it - any excuse to ditch it is fine by me... FWIW: the way i heard it explained, The Mad Hungarian originally came up with The Notation as a way to convey meaning as to how the variable would be used. So integers that store coordinates get a different prefix than integers storing measurements which are different than loop counters... This actually makes a bit of sense, if you can be consistent. But the number of times i've seen that done correctly and consistently... well, i could probably count it on the fingers of one foot. Add in all the shitty code out there using incorrect or misleading prefixes, and it becomes an active hindrance. Also, it isn't really Intellisense friendly.
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Shog9 wrote:
The Mad Hungarian originally came up with The Notation as a way to convey meaning as to how the variable would be used. So integers that store coordinates get a different prefix than integers storing measurements which are different than loop counters...
Yes, I'd read that too. Then everyone, including MS, got the wrong end of the stick and started using it to denote type.