Poor experience with Vista today
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I've put together a new computer today, dual Opteron 2.6 GHz, 2 GB RAM (ECC REG), ATI X1650 Pro, Silicon Image onboard SATA raid controller + SATA drives. Should be sufficient for Vista Ultimate. First problem was that the setup didn't had the driver for the Silicon Image RAID controller, so Setup couldn't detect the hard drives. The XP drivers didn't worked, but luckily there where some drivers for Vista Beta 2 on the Silicon Image website. Setup loaded the driver from the USB key flawlessly and the installation went smooth and fast, until the computer rebooted during the performance rating. After the reboot Vista asked me again to create a user account, unfortunately my account was already created last time and I couldn't skip the dialog, so I had to create a dummy account. Finaly Vista welcomed me with the Basic UI, because it didn't had the drivers for the X1650 Pro. Instead a "LE 750 WDDM" (or similar) driver had been installed and the PC crashed once every minute. I couldn't even install the correct driver. I've then exchanged the X1650 with a 7600GS and Vista detected the graphic card correctly and already had the drivers. Everything seemed to be fine and stable then, the performance rating was 4.2 for the graphic card, 4.9 for the memory, 5.1 for the CPUs and 5.5 for the HDs. I then started to change some settings and the screen frequently turned black and I always had to reboot. After a while I got the idea that that happens everytime after I confirmed the UAC prompt, or when the UAC prompt should have been shown. Not every time, but in about 3/4 of the cases. Luckily I was able to disable UAC using MSCONFIG and then I could change all settings without a problem. All settings but the desktop background. The screen turned black then again. I don't know wheter a new graphic card driver will solve the problem, but Vista has definitely made my day X| I'm glad that I'm sitting on my old dual P3 now, with passively cooled CPUs. Rock stable with XP SP2 and runs Vista in VMWare without a problem :rolleyes: Vista reminded me of the glorious days of Win95 A X| I'll stick with XP and Server 2003 until Longhorn Server and Vista SP1 is available. I'm not saying that Vista is a bad OS, if it would be stable and all drivers were available it would be better than XP. Well, atleast after disabling UAC, Sidebar, Windows Defender, Auto Update, ... and getting a replacement for the crippled Explorer. X|
No offense, but did you even think that it might be wise to check the hardware manufacturers site for Vista drivers BEFORE making your hardware selections? Or perhaps to check against the Vista HCL to seeif the choices were already listed? You blame your misadventures on Vista, but frankly, you made some really stupid choices, not the least of which was trying an install before finding out if your HW was compatible.
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I've put together a new computer today, dual Opteron 2.6 GHz, 2 GB RAM (ECC REG), ATI X1650 Pro, Silicon Image onboard SATA raid controller + SATA drives. Should be sufficient for Vista Ultimate. First problem was that the setup didn't had the driver for the Silicon Image RAID controller, so Setup couldn't detect the hard drives. The XP drivers didn't worked, but luckily there where some drivers for Vista Beta 2 on the Silicon Image website. Setup loaded the driver from the USB key flawlessly and the installation went smooth and fast, until the computer rebooted during the performance rating. After the reboot Vista asked me again to create a user account, unfortunately my account was already created last time and I couldn't skip the dialog, so I had to create a dummy account. Finaly Vista welcomed me with the Basic UI, because it didn't had the drivers for the X1650 Pro. Instead a "LE 750 WDDM" (or similar) driver had been installed and the PC crashed once every minute. I couldn't even install the correct driver. I've then exchanged the X1650 with a 7600GS and Vista detected the graphic card correctly and already had the drivers. Everything seemed to be fine and stable then, the performance rating was 4.2 for the graphic card, 4.9 for the memory, 5.1 for the CPUs and 5.5 for the HDs. I then started to change some settings and the screen frequently turned black and I always had to reboot. After a while I got the idea that that happens everytime after I confirmed the UAC prompt, or when the UAC prompt should have been shown. Not every time, but in about 3/4 of the cases. Luckily I was able to disable UAC using MSCONFIG and then I could change all settings without a problem. All settings but the desktop background. The screen turned black then again. I don't know wheter a new graphic card driver will solve the problem, but Vista has definitely made my day X| I'm glad that I'm sitting on my old dual P3 now, with passively cooled CPUs. Rock stable with XP SP2 and runs Vista in VMWare without a problem :rolleyes: Vista reminded me of the glorious days of Win95 A X| I'll stick with XP and Server 2003 until Longhorn Server and Vista SP1 is available. I'm not saying that Vista is a bad OS, if it would be stable and all drivers were available it would be better than XP. Well, atleast after disabling UAC, Sidebar, Windows Defender, Auto Update, ... and getting a replacement for the crippled Explorer. X|
if it makes you feel any better Iam waiting till service pack 1 of vista is out before I start playing with it. I have been debating buying a new laptop with vista already installed so I can start playing with it, but I think the cost of them at the moment is enough to put me off, as there is not enough attraction there for me. I think a move to vista is still about a year away for myself.
Kind Regards, Gary
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Igor Vigdorchik wrote:
Not exactly. MS provided the Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor that would scan your system and create a software and hardware comparability report. In my case it was very accurate.
That's fine when you're upgrading your PC, but not if you're building a new one.
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I've put together a new computer today, dual Opteron 2.6 GHz, 2 GB RAM (ECC REG), ATI X1650 Pro, Silicon Image onboard SATA raid controller + SATA drives. Should be sufficient for Vista Ultimate. First problem was that the setup didn't had the driver for the Silicon Image RAID controller, so Setup couldn't detect the hard drives. The XP drivers didn't worked, but luckily there where some drivers for Vista Beta 2 on the Silicon Image website. Setup loaded the driver from the USB key flawlessly and the installation went smooth and fast, until the computer rebooted during the performance rating. After the reboot Vista asked me again to create a user account, unfortunately my account was already created last time and I couldn't skip the dialog, so I had to create a dummy account. Finaly Vista welcomed me with the Basic UI, because it didn't had the drivers for the X1650 Pro. Instead a "LE 750 WDDM" (or similar) driver had been installed and the PC crashed once every minute. I couldn't even install the correct driver. I've then exchanged the X1650 with a 7600GS and Vista detected the graphic card correctly and already had the drivers. Everything seemed to be fine and stable then, the performance rating was 4.2 for the graphic card, 4.9 for the memory, 5.1 for the CPUs and 5.5 for the HDs. I then started to change some settings and the screen frequently turned black and I always had to reboot. After a while I got the idea that that happens everytime after I confirmed the UAC prompt, or when the UAC prompt should have been shown. Not every time, but in about 3/4 of the cases. Luckily I was able to disable UAC using MSCONFIG and then I could change all settings without a problem. All settings but the desktop background. The screen turned black then again. I don't know wheter a new graphic card driver will solve the problem, but Vista has definitely made my day X| I'm glad that I'm sitting on my old dual P3 now, with passively cooled CPUs. Rock stable with XP SP2 and runs Vista in VMWare without a problem :rolleyes: Vista reminded me of the glorious days of Win95 A X| I'll stick with XP and Server 2003 until Longhorn Server and Vista SP1 is available. I'm not saying that Vista is a bad OS, if it would be stable and all drivers were available it would be better than XP. Well, atleast after disabling UAC, Sidebar, Windows Defender, Auto Update, ... and getting a replacement for the crippled Explorer. X|
You can hit Alt+C at a UAC prompt for Continue. The first thing I do is turn off the group policy setting that makes UAC use the secure desktop. My nVidia drivers are still flaky when I'm running two monitors, and switching to the secure desktop takes about 3 seconds. X|
--Mike-- Visual C++ MVP :cool: LINKS~! Ericahist | PimpFish | CP SearchBar v3.0 | C++ Forum FAQ Ford, what's this fish doing in my ear?
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Igor Vigdorchik wrote:
Are you saying that lack of Vista comparable drivers is MS fault? If yes how so?
An OS without drivers is useless. And Linux is often blamed for the lack of drivers. Microsoft has decided to break compatibility with XP drivers so it's their task to ensure that new drivers are available. I don't care who to blame, at the end of the day it is Vista that crashes. And the box of the X1650 says certified for Vista, and there weren't even Vista drivers on the CD. They are available on the ATI (AMD) website, but if Vista can't even load a stable default VGA driver until I get the chance to install the right driver, then it is indeed Microsofts fault.
Andre Buenger wrote:
Microsoft has decided to break compatibility with XP drivers so it's their task to ensure that new drivers are available.
I disagree. This is the hardware manufacturers responsibility. Driver development SW kits for Vista have been available for well over a year. Any manufacturer selling PC hardware today has a responsibility to either provide compatible drivers or clearly state that they are not compatible. Microsoft can't be held responsible here at all. Most hardware has proprietary features that the manufacturer will not share with anyone, so only they can realistically write the drivers.
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The X1650 as well as the 7600GS are supposed to run under Vista, the box even says certified for Vista. Also for some people other requirements are more important than Vista, there is no real benefit that Vista has to offer over XP. So if Vista doesn't run I'll install XP on the new machine and Microsoft has lost a sale. That's it.
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The X1650 as well as the 7600GS are supposed to run under Vista, the box even says certified for Vista. Also for some people other requirements are more important than Vista, there is no real benefit that Vista has to offer over XP. So if Vista doesn't run I'll install XP on the new machine and Microsoft has lost a sale. That's it.
Andre Buenger wrote:
The X1650 as well as the 7600GS are supposed to run under Vista, the box even says certified for Vista.
I would be calling the manufacturer then, and asking them to back up their "certified for Vista" claim. Again, you are blaming the wrong folks.
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Andre Buenger wrote:
Microsoft has decided to break compatibility with XP drivers so it's their task to ensure that new drivers are available.
I disagree. This is the hardware manufacturers responsibility. Driver development SW kits for Vista have been available for well over a year. Any manufacturer selling PC hardware today has a responsibility to either provide compatible drivers or clearly state that they are not compatible. Microsoft can't be held responsible here at all. Most hardware has proprietary features that the manufacturer will not share with anyone, so only they can realistically write the drivers.
Microsoft and the hardware manufacturers are sitting in the same boat. Do you really believe that an average Joe who has just spent $500 on Vista Ultimate retail cares who to blame? Microsoft sold a DVD with Vista and drivers and it doesn't run. And if the box says certified for Vista and both the ATI and Nvidia card doesn't work properly, than I wonder who gave them the certification.
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Andre Buenger wrote:
The X1650 as well as the 7600GS are supposed to run under Vista, the box even says certified for Vista.
I would be calling the manufacturer then, and asking them to back up their "certified for Vista" claim. Again, you are blaming the wrong folks.
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You're claiming that Microsoft is responsible for every hardware manufacturer who claims that their hardware runs on Vista ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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You're claiming that Microsoft is responsible for every hardware manufacturer who claims that their hardware runs on Vista ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
errrrrr not that im aware of ... unless i cant write english anymore ... i was asking if microsoft is responsible for any of the debacle to do with vista ... on rob's planet that is
"there is no spoon" {me}
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Andre Buenger wrote:
Microsoft has decided to break compatibility with XP drivers so it's their task to ensure that new drivers are available.
I disagree. This is the hardware manufacturers responsibility. Driver development SW kits for Vista have been available for well over a year. Any manufacturer selling PC hardware today has a responsibility to either provide compatible drivers or clearly state that they are not compatible. Microsoft can't be held responsible here at all. Most hardware has proprietary features that the manufacturer will not share with anyone, so only they can realistically write the drivers.
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errrrrr not that im aware of ... unless i cant write english anymore ... i was asking if microsoft is responsible for any of the debacle to do with vista ... on rob's planet that is
"there is no spoon" {me}
You seemed to ask this in response to a comment about third party hardware. If you wanted to make a point, it was watered down by the moment you chose to make it. FWIW, I think Vista is a disaster, and I blame MS for it. But, third party hardware is not their fault, or their problem. Actually, I think that Vista is like a supermodel. Very nice to look at, but probably a nightmare to live with.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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Igor Vigdorchik wrote:
Are you saying that lack of Vista comparable drivers is MS fault? If yes how so?
An OS without drivers is useless. And Linux is often blamed for the lack of drivers. Microsoft has decided to break compatibility with XP drivers so it's their task to ensure that new drivers are available. I don't care who to blame, at the end of the day it is Vista that crashes. And the box of the X1650 says certified for Vista, and there weren't even Vista drivers on the CD. They are available on the ATI (AMD) website, but if Vista can't even load a stable default VGA driver until I get the chance to install the right driver, then it is indeed Microsofts fault.
Andre Buenger wrote:
Microsoft has decided to break compatibility with XP drivers so it's their task to ensure that new drivers are available.
That's just dumb
Andre Buenger wrote:
I don't care who to blame, at the end of the day it is Vista that crashes.
Most of the bad rap Windows gets, it gets from people who blame Microsoft for the fact that they bought cheap hardware with sucky drivers.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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You seemed to ask this in response to a comment about third party hardware. If you wanted to make a point, it was watered down by the moment you chose to make it. FWIW, I think Vista is a disaster, and I blame MS for it. But, third party hardware is not their fault, or their problem. Actually, I think that Vista is like a supermodel. Very nice to look at, but probably a nightmare to live with.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
i was asking rob if he was a complete microsoft apologist i guess i have a very good friend at microsoft in a senior position who told me not to install vista for at least 6 months yet so clearly there are problems but according to rob there is nothing they are to blame for [edit] and my point is i guess that when the biggest software company in the history of the world releases their flagship os after 5yrs of development you dont really expect this many issues and such ... and when i see apologists (my new less-inflammatory word for fanboy) excusing everything and blaming the consumer i wonder what their agenda really is [/edit]
"there is no spoon" {me}
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i was asking rob if he was a complete microsoft apologist i guess i have a very good friend at microsoft in a senior position who told me not to install vista for at least 6 months yet so clearly there are problems but according to rob there is nothing they are to blame for [edit] and my point is i guess that when the biggest software company in the history of the world releases their flagship os after 5yrs of development you dont really expect this many issues and such ... and when i see apologists (my new less-inflammatory word for fanboy) excusing everything and blaming the consumer i wonder what their agenda really is [/edit]
"there is no spoon" {me}
l a u r e n wrote:
i have a very good friend at microsoft in a senior position who told me not to install vista for at least 6 months yet so clearly there are problems
Well, that doesn't mean much, a lot of people take that approach, and not without reason, I mean, it's a new piece of software, it's *huge*, and we want to assume it has no bugs ?
l a u r e n wrote:
but according to rob there is nothing they are to blame for
Well, it's inevitable there are bugs, and there are definately ways in which Vista sucks. My point was, if you wanted to make such a broad point to Rob, your timing diluted it a little :-) Rob was right, Microsoft are not to blame for third party drivers. I have run Vista, but I am not at the moment, only because I am waiting for hte DVD so I can restore it ( I had to reinstall XP ). I ran W2000 and XP dual boot for years, I only left W2000 when I moved to a new PC. I will be the same with Vista. I will dual boot, but my PC will always be able to do all I need it to under XP, just in case things go south. That just makes sense to me.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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l a u r e n wrote:
i have a very good friend at microsoft in a senior position who told me not to install vista for at least 6 months yet so clearly there are problems
Well, that doesn't mean much, a lot of people take that approach, and not without reason, I mean, it's a new piece of software, it's *huge*, and we want to assume it has no bugs ?
l a u r e n wrote:
but according to rob there is nothing they are to blame for
Well, it's inevitable there are bugs, and there are definately ways in which Vista sucks. My point was, if you wanted to make such a broad point to Rob, your timing diluted it a little :-) Rob was right, Microsoft are not to blame for third party drivers. I have run Vista, but I am not at the moment, only because I am waiting for hte DVD so I can restore it ( I had to reinstall XP ). I ran W2000 and XP dual boot for years, I only left W2000 when I moved to a new PC. I will be the same with Vista. I will dual boot, but my PC will always be able to do all I need it to under XP, just in case things go south. That just makes sense to me.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
i edited my previous post to add a few points
"there is no spoon" {me}
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
I don't think he said anything
That's why I asked him a question whether I understood him the way I did.
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
it is always going to be a bit of a gamble
Not exactly. MS provided the Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor that would scan your system and create a software and hardware comparability report. In my case it was very accurate.
In my case it was lying. :) I have a very high end system and the performance is less than stellar. Again, it goes back to the quality of drivers from big-name vendors. It's easy to blame the vendors or MS. But, I think MS should really have taken it upon themselves and made sure that the major hardware vendors were supplying rock solid drivers prior to launch. How they could have done that I am not sure, but it seems that many people are having driver issues on Vista certified systems. I think MS will need to do more than those stupid adds to convince users to upgrade. Personally, I am telling my friends and family who ask not to waste their money until vista has been out for some time.
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Andre Buenger wrote:
The X1650 as well as the 7600GS are supposed to run under Vista, the box even says certified for Vista.
I would be calling the manufacturer then, and asking them to back up their "certified for Vista" claim. Again, you are blaming the wrong folks.
Rob Graham wrote:
Again, you are blaming the wrong folks.
I agree with you Rob, but the average user isn't going to care. They see the Vista Certified logo and they think that MS has blessed the product. (And, I may be wrong here, but doesn't that logo mean that MS has certified the driver? )
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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All Vista drivers MUST be signed and certified with Microsof (that's a new Vista security model to protect DRM from hacking). If MS certifies driver which causing problem, who is sharing responsibility for that driver?
gnk
FWIW I have installed unsigned and uncertified drivers on Vista (32 bit) without any problems. It is the 64 bit edition that enforces that restriction.
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