Poor experience with Vista today
-
I've put together a new computer today, dual Opteron 2.6 GHz, 2 GB RAM (ECC REG), ATI X1650 Pro, Silicon Image onboard SATA raid controller + SATA drives. Should be sufficient for Vista Ultimate. First problem was that the setup didn't had the driver for the Silicon Image RAID controller, so Setup couldn't detect the hard drives. The XP drivers didn't worked, but luckily there where some drivers for Vista Beta 2 on the Silicon Image website. Setup loaded the driver from the USB key flawlessly and the installation went smooth and fast, until the computer rebooted during the performance rating. After the reboot Vista asked me again to create a user account, unfortunately my account was already created last time and I couldn't skip the dialog, so I had to create a dummy account. Finaly Vista welcomed me with the Basic UI, because it didn't had the drivers for the X1650 Pro. Instead a "LE 750 WDDM" (or similar) driver had been installed and the PC crashed once every minute. I couldn't even install the correct driver. I've then exchanged the X1650 with a 7600GS and Vista detected the graphic card correctly and already had the drivers. Everything seemed to be fine and stable then, the performance rating was 4.2 for the graphic card, 4.9 for the memory, 5.1 for the CPUs and 5.5 for the HDs. I then started to change some settings and the screen frequently turned black and I always had to reboot. After a while I got the idea that that happens everytime after I confirmed the UAC prompt, or when the UAC prompt should have been shown. Not every time, but in about 3/4 of the cases. Luckily I was able to disable UAC using MSCONFIG and then I could change all settings without a problem. All settings but the desktop background. The screen turned black then again. I don't know wheter a new graphic card driver will solve the problem, but Vista has definitely made my day X| I'm glad that I'm sitting on my old dual P3 now, with passively cooled CPUs. Rock stable with XP SP2 and runs Vista in VMWare without a problem :rolleyes: Vista reminded me of the glorious days of Win95 A X| I'll stick with XP and Server 2003 until Longhorn Server and Vista SP1 is available. I'm not saying that Vista is a bad OS, if it would be stable and all drivers were available it would be better than XP. Well, atleast after disabling UAC, Sidebar, Windows Defender, Auto Update, ... and getting a replacement for the crippled Explorer. X|
When I upgraded my system, the first thing I did was to check if the parts I was buying were compatible and then I scanned the net for anyone having problems with those parts. Made my life a lot easier and my Vista 64 upgrade painless!
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: OpenID/CardSpace - Is it time? Latest Tech Blog Post: Scratch: fun for all ages for free!
-
Interestingly, my friend was swearing at Vista just yesterday :-) We went to Bestbuy and he bought himself an iPod. Unfortunately iTunes had an incompatibility with Vista (which is what he had in his laptop). The stupid iPod does not provide a direct USB disk interface - so there was no alternate way to copy music into it. I can't believe people buy that sort of dumbed down device. Anyway we returned it and got a Samsung player - less than half the price of the iPod, works fine on Vista :-)
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. (*Sample chapter available online*)Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
The stupid iPod does not provide a direct USB disk interface - so there was no alternate way to copy music into it.
Like the Zune and the Creative and Sony and... all of the major players do this. Only the minor players who copulate a MP3 decoder onto a USB stick allow for straight copying, like those crap Samsung devices. ;) It does suck though. I wish all the players allowed direct copying. They attempt to control the experience thinking they know best and are doing their users a favour. Every review for the Sony devices mention the terrible software and horrid conversion process that happens when you load music on to it. It is kinda sad the whole Apple vs. Microsoft thing over Vista and iTunes. Both sides are trying to shaft the other and the result is we, the people who pay them for these products, get shafted. Ugh. Grow up guys.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
-
Are you saying that lack of Vista comparable drivers is MS fault? If yes how so? You should have verified with hardware manufacturers that they have the Vista comparable drivers before you bought your hardware. If you did it your experience with Vista would have been much smoother.
Thanks for the advice Igor. It is good advice; Everyone, hold back on installing Vista for about a year.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
-
When I upgraded my system, the first thing I did was to check if the parts I was buying were compatible and then I scanned the net for anyone having problems with those parts. Made my life a lot easier and my Vista 64 upgrade painless!
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: OpenID/CardSpace - Is it time? Latest Tech Blog Post: Scratch: fun for all ages for free!
Man, and this is supposed to be an OS for wide deployment on the majority of desktop systems?
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
-
Man, and this is supposed to be an OS for wide deployment on the majority of desktop systems?
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
Well, give it a couple years, it will be on most of the desktops, it is on mine :)
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: OpenID/CardSpace - Is it time? Latest Tech Blog Post: Scratch: fun for all ages for free!
-
Well, give it a couple years, it will be on most of the desktops, it is on mine :)
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: OpenID/CardSpace - Is it time? Latest Tech Blog Post: Scratch: fun for all ages for free!
Oh sure, I have no doubt it will be. But MS could have done a better job. I think we will find Vista doesn't meet initial or long term sales forecasts. It is giving people pause for thought and in that pause allowing alternatives to step in. I won't be surprised if certain corporate customers take Vista as an opportunity to phase off of Microsoft. Windows 95, Windows XP, Windows 2000. None of those have met the same level of hostility and disappointment that Vista has. Hopefully MS hits their next OS out of the park and gives me an alternative to OS X (I tried Ubuntu for a bit but didn't think it is really there for everyday work requirements.)
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
-
Oh sure, I have no doubt it will be. But MS could have done a better job. I think we will find Vista doesn't meet initial or long term sales forecasts. It is giving people pause for thought and in that pause allowing alternatives to step in. I won't be surprised if certain corporate customers take Vista as an opportunity to phase off of Microsoft. Windows 95, Windows XP, Windows 2000. None of those have met the same level of hostility and disappointment that Vista has. Hopefully MS hits their next OS out of the park and gives me an alternative to OS X (I tried Ubuntu for a bit but didn't think it is really there for everyday work requirements.)
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
Paul Watson wrote:
Windows 95, Windows XP, Windows 2000. None of those have met the same level of hostility and disappointment that Vista has.
Heh. I've gotta say, i'm torn. On the one hand, i agree with the points Rob, CG and others are making: it is the hardware manufacturers' responsibility to get updated drivers written and released, and the work that Microsoft's done with Vista to reduce the potential problems associated with bad drivers is well worth a few years of poor driver support. On the other hand, while there've always been problems when upgrading to a new version of Windows, the ability to limp along using old drivers has really been one of the hallmarks of their consumer OS lines. Heck, Win95 could even use some real-mode DOS drivers for things like CD drives. Dodgy? You betcha! But, it got a lot of people running Win95 that never would have upgraded otherwise. And as much as i'm gonna enjoy using Vista once all the issues with drivers and other software are resolved and i've purchased new hardware, it'll probably never be an OS i'm recommending as an upgrade.
---- Scripts i’ve known... CPhog 1.8.2 - make CP better. Forum Bookmark 0.2.5 - bookmark forum posts on Pensieve Print forum 0.1.2 - printer-friendly forums Expand all 1.0 - Expand all messages In-place Delete 1.0 - AJAX-style post delete Syntax 0.1 - Syntax highlighting for code blocks in the forums
-
FWIW I have installed unsigned and uncertified drivers on Vista (32 bit) without any problems. It is the 64 bit edition that enforces that restriction.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
You seemed to ask this in response to a comment about third party hardware. If you wanted to make a point, it was watered down by the moment you chose to make it. FWIW, I think Vista is a disaster, and I blame MS for it. But, third party hardware is not their fault, or their problem. Actually, I think that Vista is like a supermodel. Very nice to look at, but probably a nightmare to live with.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
Vista is like a supermodel
LOL :laugh: that's sig-worthy! ... and Vista is extremly resource hungry, as are models ($$$s that is, not food... seemingly :))
"For fifty bucks I'd put my face in their soup and blow." - George Costanza
CP article: SmartPager - a Flickr-style pager control with go-to-page popup layer.
-
l a u r e n wrote:
was asking rob if he was a complete microsoft apologist i guess
No, I'm not. I likely won't install Vista on any critical work machines until after SP1 is out. On the other hand, I think people who rant on and on about how Microsoft screwed them up when in reality they made a bad decision should be called out. Anyone who is building their own box is taking a real risk that Vista will have problems, and should be prepared for that eventuality. Simple basics like checking vendor sites for updated drivers before starting an install are mandatory to have any chance of success. Even the big builders like Dell and HP are likely to have a few issues for a while, but at least they have tested all their hardware in combination before you get it. Even if you buy hardware that has a "certified for Vista" logo, you have no guarantee that the combination of components is going to play nice together. Vista has plenty of problems, UAC may turn out to be the stupidest "solution" ever implemented to address security issues (I am willing to bet 99.99% of users disable it within 1 month - or have someone disable it for them). The issues the OP is complaining about are mostly his own fault, especially give that he must have been aware that others have had problems. Still he went ahead with an install on a home-brew, custom hardware combination, without having up to date drivers for all the HW in hand. Blame Microsoft for things that are their fault, but be adult enough to take responsibility for your own stupidity.
rob im not disagreeing with you ... my point is microsoft has released this to the general public and as such it should be ready for the general public ... excuses about who is to blame for divers etc etc are irrelevant ... i think of my mom trying to get this running and the arguments for and against become clear to me at least if they say it's ready for consumers then it should be ready period
"there is no spoon" {me}
-
Exactly. My main message was that it could be risky to rely on a Vista machine. I definitely wouldn't install Vista on a stable running XP system if that is your main workstation which you need for your everyday work. I would only recommend to install it on a new system and then try wheter all the drivers are available and stable and if all applications run before you format your old PC.
That's just commonsense. If you are looking to upgrade a system to a new OS, the safest way (and the one I'd always recommend) is to buy a caddy and new system drive and install the new OS on it. That way, there is no physical connection between the two OSs, and no chance of multiboot problems. Changing operating systems is simply a matter of shutting down, swapping drives and pressing the "On" button. We've one system configured this way (tri-boot between XP, Vista and Server 2003) and it spends 98% of its time booted into Vista. Nevertheless, on those rare occasions when we need to run something that isn't yet Vista capable, the other OSs are just a disk swap away. :)
Anna :rose: Linting the day away :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
-
rob im not disagreeing with you ... my point is microsoft has released this to the general public and as such it should be ready for the general public ... excuses about who is to blame for divers etc etc are irrelevant ... i think of my mom trying to get this running and the arguments for and against become clear to me at least if they say it's ready for consumers then it should be ready period
"there is no spoon" {me}
I wish it were that simple. However, my past experience suggests that third party companies never take a new OS seriously until it is publicly released. The excuse "it's still beta" is just far too easy of a cop-out. It's also funny that most of the Vista-bashers out there are saying the same about Vista that they said about XP 6 years ago, but now rave about XP. Let's face it - some people just like to bitch.
Anna :rose: Linting the day away :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
-
Oh sure, I have no doubt it will be. But MS could have done a better job. I think we will find Vista doesn't meet initial or long term sales forecasts. It is giving people pause for thought and in that pause allowing alternatives to step in. I won't be surprised if certain corporate customers take Vista as an opportunity to phase off of Microsoft. Windows 95, Windows XP, Windows 2000. None of those have met the same level of hostility and disappointment that Vista has. Hopefully MS hits their next OS out of the park and gives me an alternative to OS X (I tried Ubuntu for a bit but didn't think it is really there for everyday work requirements.)
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
Paul Watson wrote:
Windows 95, Windows XP, Windows 2000. None of those have met the same level of hostility and disappointment that Vista has.
Are you kidding? I remember very well the furore when XP was released. Exactly the same bitching about "Win2k is good enough. XP is crap, etc. etc.". Funnily enough it was also unstable as hell until the drivers caught up. If anything, Vista is further ahead of the game in that regard than XP was then.
Anna :rose: Linting the day away :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
-
I wish it were that simple. However, my past experience suggests that third party companies never take a new OS seriously until it is publicly released. The excuse "it's still beta" is just far too easy of a cop-out. It's also funny that most of the Vista-bashers out there are saying the same about Vista that they said about XP 6 years ago, but now rave about XP. Let's face it - some people just like to bitch.
Anna :rose: Linting the day away :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
you know what ... i met a *very* hot girl 2nite who wanted my number i *so* dont care about vista or xp or w2k or microsoft for that matter... :rolleyes:
"there is no spoon" {me}
-
Are you saying that lack of Vista comparable drivers is MS fault? If yes how so? You should have verified with hardware manufacturers that they have the Vista comparable drivers before you bought your hardware. If you did it your experience with Vista would have been much smoother.
They spent a lot of resources on plug and play and smooth and simple hardware installation, both technical and in PR. And now they just drop it? Maybe they expected to much to fast from driver vendors, maybe their inteface documentation came to late or was shifting around to much, maybe DRM requirements made vista video drivers a boiling pile of code dung. Or maybe vendors just sat there and felt that noone will bother with it. I don't know. Take a guess.
Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Velopers, Develprs, Developers!
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Linkify!|Fold With Us! -
you know what ... i met a *very* hot girl 2nite who wanted my number i *so* dont care about vista or xp or w2k or microsoft for that matter... :rolleyes:
"there is no spoon" {me}
LOL good for you! I've already got my hot girl (Beth and I have been together for 2 1/2 years now!) so I've no axe to grind about anything much these days. :-D
Anna :rose: Linting the day away :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
-
I've put together a new computer today, dual Opteron 2.6 GHz, 2 GB RAM (ECC REG), ATI X1650 Pro, Silicon Image onboard SATA raid controller + SATA drives. Should be sufficient for Vista Ultimate. First problem was that the setup didn't had the driver for the Silicon Image RAID controller, so Setup couldn't detect the hard drives. The XP drivers didn't worked, but luckily there where some drivers for Vista Beta 2 on the Silicon Image website. Setup loaded the driver from the USB key flawlessly and the installation went smooth and fast, until the computer rebooted during the performance rating. After the reboot Vista asked me again to create a user account, unfortunately my account was already created last time and I couldn't skip the dialog, so I had to create a dummy account. Finaly Vista welcomed me with the Basic UI, because it didn't had the drivers for the X1650 Pro. Instead a "LE 750 WDDM" (or similar) driver had been installed and the PC crashed once every minute. I couldn't even install the correct driver. I've then exchanged the X1650 with a 7600GS and Vista detected the graphic card correctly and already had the drivers. Everything seemed to be fine and stable then, the performance rating was 4.2 for the graphic card, 4.9 for the memory, 5.1 for the CPUs and 5.5 for the HDs. I then started to change some settings and the screen frequently turned black and I always had to reboot. After a while I got the idea that that happens everytime after I confirmed the UAC prompt, or when the UAC prompt should have been shown. Not every time, but in about 3/4 of the cases. Luckily I was able to disable UAC using MSCONFIG and then I could change all settings without a problem. All settings but the desktop background. The screen turned black then again. I don't know wheter a new graphic card driver will solve the problem, but Vista has definitely made my day X| I'm glad that I'm sitting on my old dual P3 now, with passively cooled CPUs. Rock stable with XP SP2 and runs Vista in VMWare without a problem :rolleyes: Vista reminded me of the glorious days of Win95 A X| I'll stick with XP and Server 2003 until Longhorn Server and Vista SP1 is available. I'm not saying that Vista is a bad OS, if it would be stable and all drivers were available it would be better than XP. Well, atleast after disabling UAC, Sidebar, Windows Defender, Auto Update, ... and getting a replacement for the crippled Explorer. X|
Andre Buenger wrote:
Rock stable with XP SP2 and runs Vista in VMWare without a problem
What version of VMware?
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Andre Buenger wrote:
Rock stable with XP SP2 and runs Vista in VMWare without a problem
What version of VMware?
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001VMWare Workstation 5.5.1. running Vista Business.
-
Andre Buenger wrote:
Microsoft has decided to break compatibility with XP drivers so it's their task to ensure that new drivers are available.
That's just dumb
Andre Buenger wrote:
I don't care who to blame, at the end of the day it is Vista that crashes.
Most of the bad rap Windows gets, it gets from people who blame Microsoft for the fact that they bought cheap hardware with sucky drivers.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )