All you hardcore C++ devs
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Oh barf. I've got a guy in my group who does exactly that. He runs Visual Studio to do compiles and to debug, but he does his editting in some god-forsaken vi-clone-for-Windows. Line editing, in this day and age. Sheesh.
Software Zen:
delete this;There are quite a few such people around. Each to his own
Kevin
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You misunderstand what refactoring means. There are two senses of refactoring. One means restructuring old code. The other just refers to the ordinary refinement of live code as you're developing it. Refactoring tools are useful in both cases. But in the first sense we are not always in a position to rewrite, despite being real programmers. Plus even good code can be legitimately refactored because as they say "requirements always change."
Kevin
Kevin McFarlane wrote:
You misunderstand what refactoring means.
Apparently, you misunderstood what hardcore means ;)
"Great job, team. Head back to base for debriefing and cocktails." (Spottswoode "Team America")
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whiffs of snobbery from the 'hardcore' (binary bores).... ...and maybe stale pizza, Dr. Pepper's and onion ring crisps or whatever they subsist upon. The way things are going, spoon-feed programming tools will be accessible to the masses within our lifetimes and only the best 'binary bores' will survive down at the low levels. The rest might have to get a different career altogether. Tax Law would seem dull and pernickity enough, with syntax you can hide behind. Just a thought. :-) I admit that C++ is bullet fast and an admirable skill, but its abstraction from reality is an obstacle to progress in many projects. I'm glad that (some) end users now stand a chance of designing software and optimising it to be arguably 'good enough' for their planned tasks. Sorry if you would rather Dev remained exclusively geek, but that's so last century. N
'All there really is, is: virtue and vice' ...Black Crowes
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Kevin McFarlane wrote:
You misunderstand what refactoring means.
Apparently, you misunderstood what hardcore means ;)
"Great job, team. Head back to base for debriefing and cocktails." (Spottswoode "Team America")
Enlighten me.
Kevin
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Enlighten me.
Kevin
Note the joke icon. I don't know shit
"Great job, team. Head back to base for debriefing and cocktails." (Spottswoode "Team America")
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Oh barf. I've got a guy in my group who does exactly that. He runs Visual Studio to do compiles and to debug, but he does his editting in some god-forsaken vi-clone-for-Windows. Line editing, in this day and age. Sheesh.
Software Zen:
delete this;I don't even care if the ones work! Tight code? All the programs I've ever written reside in the same exe. Just randomly set eip in the image and it will run a program. When we gave Saddam chemical weapons, did we want him to use them?
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whiffs of snobbery from the 'hardcore' (binary bores).... ...and maybe stale pizza, Dr. Pepper's and onion ring crisps or whatever they subsist upon. The way things are going, spoon-feed programming tools will be accessible to the masses within our lifetimes and only the best 'binary bores' will survive down at the low levels. The rest might have to get a different career altogether. Tax Law would seem dull and pernickity enough, with syntax you can hide behind. Just a thought. :-) I admit that C++ is bullet fast and an admirable skill, but its abstraction from reality is an obstacle to progress in many projects. I'm glad that (some) end users now stand a chance of designing software and optimising it to be arguably 'good enough' for their planned tasks. Sorry if you would rather Dev remained exclusively geek, but that's so last century. N
'All there really is, is: virtue and vice' ...Black Crowes
nilotic wrote:
whiffs of snobbery from the 'hardcore' (binary bores)....
...and often misplaced since in my experience most C++ code is pretty appalling by the standards of C++ itself.
Kevin
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You misunderstand what refactoring means. There are two senses of refactoring. One means restructuring old code. The other just refers to the ordinary refinement of live code as you're developing it. Refactoring tools are useful in both cases. But in the first sense we are not always in a position to rewrite, despite being real programmers. Plus even good code can be legitimately refactored because as they say "requirements always change."
Kevin
Kevin McFarlane wrote:
You misunderstand what refactoring means
You misunderstand what a sense of humor is.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Nice! To bad it has problems with big projects. Have anyone tryed this with big projects with succsess? My problem is that devenv.exe process eats 700Mb of memory and goes to 50 to 90% of CPU everytime i use any of the refactor tools. :sigh:
Go with VisualAssistX. Much better. Refactor! brings my system to a screetching halt!
ed ~"Watch your thoughts; they become your words. Watch your words they become your actions. Watch your actions; they become your habits. Watch your habits; they become your character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny." -Frank Outlaw.
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Go with VisualAssistX. Much better. Refactor! brings my system to a screetching halt!
ed ~"Watch your thoughts; they become your words. Watch your words they become your actions. Watch your actions; they become your habits. Watch your habits; they become your character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny." -Frank Outlaw.
I'm evaluating it right now :)
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WholeTomato had that problem for quite a while, but the recent builds got it right.
Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Velopers, Develprs, Developers!
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Linkify!|Fold With Us!I'm evaluating it right now :)
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Note the joke icon. I don't know shit
"Great job, team. Head back to base for debriefing and cocktails." (Spottswoode "Team America")
Didn't spot that.:doh:
Kevin
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Kevin McFarlane wrote:
You misunderstand what refactoring means
You misunderstand what a sense of humor is.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001You should have added a smiley.:)
Kevin
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I just noticed that DevExpress have released a free refactoring plug-in for VC++ 2005. Refactor!™ for C++[^] There's a video here which gives you an idea http://www.devexpress.com/Products/NET/IDETools/CodeRush/Training.xml[^] I've been using the .NET stuff in Refactor! Pro, so I don't know how well-developed the C++ versions are at this stage.
Kevin
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Whole Tomato is not free. So for anyone who doesn't like paying for add-ins...
Kevin
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I just noticed that DevExpress have released a free refactoring plug-in for VC++ 2005. Refactor!™ for C++[^] There's a video here which gives you an idea http://www.devexpress.com/Products/NET/IDETools/CodeRush/Training.xml[^] I've been using the .NET stuff in Refactor! Pro, so I don't know how well-developed the C++ versions are at this stage.
Kevin
Thanks very much for the info. I don't have much time to read The Lounge these days, but I do try to skim it regularly to pick up gems like this. :cool: I now have Refactor C++ installed both at home and work, but of course I haven't had much time to play with it yet. I'm comparing it to Ref++[^], which works very well, enough so that I coughed up my own money to buy it. I have played enough already, though, to see that Refactor doesn't have Ref++'s most useful function, "Symbol Info" (somewhat like VS's Find All References, but with a more useful UI). On the other hand, Refactor is a lot more visual, and has some cool little refactorings that Ref++ doesn't have. On the other hand, I like Ref++'s "Change Function Signature" better than Refactor's equivalent. And so on, and so on. So, I can already see that it'll be good to have both tools to wield in my fight against monster C++ projects with a mind of their own. :)
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Thanks very much for the info. I don't have much time to read The Lounge these days, but I do try to skim it regularly to pick up gems like this. :cool: I now have Refactor C++ installed both at home and work, but of course I haven't had much time to play with it yet. I'm comparing it to Ref++[^], which works very well, enough so that I coughed up my own money to buy it. I have played enough already, though, to see that Refactor doesn't have Ref++'s most useful function, "Symbol Info" (somewhat like VS's Find All References, but with a more useful UI). On the other hand, Refactor is a lot more visual, and has some cool little refactorings that Ref++ doesn't have. On the other hand, I like Ref++'s "Change Function Signature" better than Refactor's equivalent. And so on, and so on. So, I can already see that it'll be good to have both tools to wield in my fight against monster C++ projects with a mind of their own. :)
The C++ refactoring is fairly new for DevExpress. They've been more focused on the .NET stuff to date. But I would expect the C++ to get more polished over time. I'm almost out of the C++ loop these days myself. Haven't done any for about 2 years. The slick UI is the strong point in the DevExpress tools. Plus their DXCore extensibility engine is very powerful. It's free and anyone can write additional plug-ins for it. But it's a bit of a black art. After all, they don't want to make it too easy, otherwise no-one will buy CodeRush and Refactor! :)
Kevin
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Thanks very much for the info. I don't have much time to read The Lounge these days, but I do try to skim it regularly to pick up gems like this. :cool: I now have Refactor C++ installed both at home and work, but of course I haven't had much time to play with it yet. I'm comparing it to Ref++[^], which works very well, enough so that I coughed up my own money to buy it. I have played enough already, though, to see that Refactor doesn't have Ref++'s most useful function, "Symbol Info" (somewhat like VS's Find All References, but with a more useful UI). On the other hand, Refactor is a lot more visual, and has some cool little refactorings that Ref++ doesn't have. On the other hand, I like Ref++'s "Change Function Signature" better than Refactor's equivalent. And so on, and so on. So, I can already see that it'll be good to have both tools to wield in my fight against monster C++ projects with a mind of their own. :)
Oh dear. After writing that, I fired up a Win32 console app that I've been debugging, and it seems that Refactor C++ causes my Visual Studio to lock up for some reason, at least with that project. :sigh: I tried a few reboots, but I ended up uninstalling Refactor to get my project working again. I do have quite a few other VS add-ins, so it may not be Refactor's fault. But time is pressing, so I must carry on without Refactor since I don't have time to troubleshoot this further. Drat.
