Which platform?
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So, we are just about to begin a new project. We're now deciding which platform should be used. The bosses asked me about this, and I replied that my bet was on C++ and Win32, as usual. A colleague voted for Java ( X| ) and someone there even dared to suggest VB ( X| X| ). At any rate, the bosses are worried about the future of C++ and Win32. They read somewhere that Microsoft's next OS won't be supporting anything but .NET Framework, so they are not convinced that C++ with Win32 should be the best option. So I'd like to ask for your opinion about this... C++ still has a future? Should we choose C# and .NET over good old C++ and Win32? Thanks.
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
They read somewhere that Microsoft's next OS won't be supporting anything but .NET Framework
which would make 100% of pre-2003 applications incompatible. that'd be awesome!
image processing toolkits | batch image processing | blogging
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Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
Should we choose C# and .NET over good old C++ and Win32?
It really depends on the type of app.
CleaKO
"I think you'll be okay here, they have a thin candy shell. 'Surprised you didn't know that.'" - Tommy (Tommy Boy)
"Fill it up again! Fill it up again! Once it hits your lips, it's so good!" - Frank the Tank (Old School)Yep, I know... I'm going to rephrase the question. Should we even consider C++ and Win32, given the fact that Microsoft could not support it in the next version of Windows?
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
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So, we are just about to begin a new project. We're now deciding which platform should be used. The bosses asked me about this, and I replied that my bet was on C++ and Win32, as usual. A colleague voted for Java ( X| ) and someone there even dared to suggest VB ( X| X| ). At any rate, the bosses are worried about the future of C++ and Win32. They read somewhere that Microsoft's next OS won't be supporting anything but .NET Framework, so they are not convinced that C++ with Win32 should be the best option. So I'd like to ask for your opinion about this... C++ still has a future? Should we choose C# and .NET over good old C++ and Win32? Thanks.
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
C++ probably has the best future of any alternative, though it may not be the best choice for your solution. Don't forget a thing called C++/CLI. Yeah, it's a little hard to get used to and the documentation on it is horrible, but I have taken a "normal" C++ application and recompiled it for C++/CLI without any changes and it worked. A bigger point is that you shouldn't be basing decisions on fringe rumors about what may or may not happen to software 10 or 20 years down the line. Despite all the hype over C#, .NET could choke and die by then. (Yes, I've been around long enough to see many "rock solid" technologies do just that many times.) Having said all that, for me the only real contenders for a serious software project are C# and C++. Not only will it give you the best tools and widest selection of SDKs, you'll have an easier time hiring people than if you went with something else, even VB. (Contrary to the hype, in my working experience C# is not a clear winner unless you're talking about ASP.NET, then the debate is over before it began. I personally still prefer C++ and am more productive in it, but will use C#.NET if it's appropriate.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
They read somewhere that Microsoft's next OS won't be supporting anything but .NET Framework
which would make 100% of pre-2003 applications incompatible. that'd be awesome!
image processing toolkits | batch image processing | blogging
Chris Losinger wrote:
which would make 100% of pre-2003 applications incompatible. that'd be awesome!
Yeah, but the next major OS (post-Vista) won't be out till maybe 2012-2013 or so.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. (*Sample chapter available online*) -
So, we are just about to begin a new project. We're now deciding which platform should be used. The bosses asked me about this, and I replied that my bet was on C++ and Win32, as usual. A colleague voted for Java ( X| ) and someone there even dared to suggest VB ( X| X| ). At any rate, the bosses are worried about the future of C++ and Win32. They read somewhere that Microsoft's next OS won't be supporting anything but .NET Framework, so they are not convinced that C++ with Win32 should be the best option. So I'd like to ask for your opinion about this... C++ still has a future? Should we choose C# and .NET over good old C++ and Win32? Thanks.
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
VC++/MFC definitely works fine on Vista (specially once Orcas is out). But if you want to consume WPF/WCF in your apps, you might also want to consider C# or VB.NET. Though you could also settle for a mixture of native VC++, C#/VB.NET layers for WPF/WCF and a C++/CLI interop layer.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. (*Sample chapter available online*) -
So, we are just about to begin a new project. We're now deciding which platform should be used. The bosses asked me about this, and I replied that my bet was on C++ and Win32, as usual. A colleague voted for Java ( X| ) and someone there even dared to suggest VB ( X| X| ). At any rate, the bosses are worried about the future of C++ and Win32. They read somewhere that Microsoft's next OS won't be supporting anything but .NET Framework, so they are not convinced that C++ with Win32 should be the best option. So I'd like to ask for your opinion about this... C++ still has a future? Should we choose C# and .NET over good old C++ and Win32? Thanks.
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
They read somewhere that Microsoft's next OS won't be supporting anything but .NET Framework,
Ah yes, the mystical and wonderful "somewhere", where all is good, right and overflowing with an abundance of useful information :) You might politely suggest they upgrade their reading materials to something a bit factually correct. I would think that making corporate IT decisions based on cheese-whiz articles you read on the pot from places like "Super PC IT Weekly" would be a really bad idea. But who knows, I've been wrong before.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Techno Silliness
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Yep, I know... I'm going to rephrase the question. Should we even consider C++ and Win32, given the fact that Microsoft could not support it in the next version of Windows?
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
Should we even consider C++ and Win32, given the fact that Microsoft could not support it in the next version of Windows?
Microsoft has never said it would not support C++ in its next OS (post-Vista).
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. (*Sample chapter available online*) -
Chris Losinger wrote:
which would make 100% of pre-2003 applications incompatible. that'd be awesome!
Yeah, but the next major OS (post-Vista) won't be out till maybe 2012-2013 or so.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. (*Sample chapter available online*)then i suggest MS start telling people about this plan. 5 years is pretty tight, when you're talking about rewriting 99% of all Windows applications.
image processing toolkits | batch image processing | blogging
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So, we are just about to begin a new project. We're now deciding which platform should be used. The bosses asked me about this, and I replied that my bet was on C++ and Win32, as usual. A colleague voted for Java ( X| ) and someone there even dared to suggest VB ( X| X| ). At any rate, the bosses are worried about the future of C++ and Win32. They read somewhere that Microsoft's next OS won't be supporting anything but .NET Framework, so they are not convinced that C++ with Win32 should be the best option. So I'd like to ask for your opinion about this... C++ still has a future? Should we choose C# and .NET over good old C++ and Win32? Thanks.
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
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then i suggest MS start telling people about this plan. 5 years is pretty tight, when you're talking about rewriting 99% of all Windows applications.
image processing toolkits | batch image processing | blogging
Chris Losinger wrote:
then i suggest MS start telling people about this plan. 5 years is pretty tight, when you're talking about rewriting 99% of all Windows applications, especially if they have to target a moving-target framework like .Net.
Well pre-2003 would be 10 years and not 5. And ever since .NET was out around 2000-2001, it was evident that, that'd be the future of writing apps on Microsoft OSes. People were given adequate time to move on to newer technologies.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. (*Sample chapter available online*) -
So, we are just about to begin a new project. We're now deciding which platform should be used. The bosses asked me about this, and I replied that my bet was on C++ and Win32, as usual. A colleague voted for Java ( X| ) and someone there even dared to suggest VB ( X| X| ). At any rate, the bosses are worried about the future of C++ and Win32. They read somewhere that Microsoft's next OS won't be supporting anything but .NET Framework, so they are not convinced that C++ with Win32 should be the best option. So I'd like to ask for your opinion about this... C++ still has a future? Should we choose C# and .NET over good old C++ and Win32? Thanks.
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
C# or c++ either way you shouldn't have a problem in the next few years. It's a horrible way to select a tool though to do it by committee without any consideration of the time to market, technical requirements, intended target market etc etc. What you are describing is akin to a bunch of builders sitting around and discussing building a house and one guy says "use wood" another says "use stone" etc. It's more important to find out what the requirements are first, the rest should follow naturally. Personally I will never use c++ again, I think it's a dead language with many better options available now for software development (all .net based) but my primary requirement is always time to market and what I can do with limited resources. (I've written a *lot* of apps in c++ over the years). I would choose c# for just about anything I do, but if a gun was put to my head and I was told to choose between VB.NET or C++ I'd still choose VB.NET. To my point of view new development in c++ is for a) People writing device drivers or other ultra low level [edit: highly performance hungry like what Jeffrey is doing] stuff b) people in love with their own brilliance to the detriment of all else including the fact that they are writing software for a purpose and not for their own personal sake c) People stuck in their ways so badly they won't consider anything else. -- modified at 14:56 Wednesday 21st March, 2007
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I'd always use C# for my new projects cuz I believe, if I came to face any limitation, it must be because of me, not the language!
Smile: A curve that can set a lot of things straight! (\ /) (O.o) (><)
Muammar© wrote:
I'd always use C# for my new projects cuz I believe, if I came to face any limitation, it must be because of me, not the language!
Limitations like lack of compile-time templates and inline assembly would be your fault then? :rolleyes:
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. (*Sample chapter available online*) -
Chris Losinger wrote:
then i suggest MS start telling people about this plan. 5 years is pretty tight, when you're talking about rewriting 99% of all Windows applications, especially if they have to target a moving-target framework like .Net.
Well pre-2003 would be 10 years and not 5. And ever since .NET was out around 2000-2001, it was evident that, that'd be the future of writing apps on Microsoft OSes. People were given adequate time to move on to newer technologies.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. (*Sample chapter available online*)Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Well pre-2003 would be 10 years and not 5.
like many people who aren't doing web stuff, i'm still writing native apps *. the world didn't switch to .Net when VS03 came out. * in fact, i'm still writing apps using a 16-bit IDE. (Clarion)
image processing toolkits | batch image processing | blogging
-
So, we are just about to begin a new project. We're now deciding which platform should be used. The bosses asked me about this, and I replied that my bet was on C++ and Win32, as usual. A colleague voted for Java ( X| ) and someone there even dared to suggest VB ( X| X| ). At any rate, the bosses are worried about the future of C++ and Win32. They read somewhere that Microsoft's next OS won't be supporting anything but .NET Framework, so they are not convinced that C++ with Win32 should be the best option. So I'd like to ask for your opinion about this... C++ still has a future? Should we choose C# and .NET over good old C++ and Win32? Thanks.
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
They read somewhere that Microsoft's next OS won't be supporting anything but .NET Framework, so they are not convinced that C++ with Win32 should be the best option.
Sure Microsoft would "like" all applications in the world to be .Net. This would be grand, for them. Will it happen? tough to say for sure, Always in motion the Future is. Sometimes, let a Jedi know what may likely happen, the Force can. But show what definitely will happen, the Force cannot. err... uhmm... sorry about that.... Anyhow, you can read a lot from the past, and it supports the rumors, but not the likelihood. In Windows 95 Microsoft tried to kill OpenGL after the failed strong-arm at the Fahrenheit group and all members walked out on MS. OpenGL is still here. They tried again with XP, OpenGL is still here. They tried again with Vista, and were almost successful, but vendor pressure from numerous developer fronts, from Entertainment to Military. OpenGL is back. Microsoft provided the C++/CLI in hope to offer a bridge to .Net, but no one really wanted anyone to stay there, so more encouragement is put on C#. C++ survived. But if you want to talk to your boss about long range pipe dreams of MS and other companies, many would like you to have thin-clients, lease software off their servers for only the time of use, and pay everything as a service. So if they want to plan for rumors, pull out and throw away all their hard-drives and give them all internet appliences. :-D Rumors are handy to keep in mind, and perhaps plan for possibilities, but never base business plans on rumors. I do follow rumors, I do follow leaks of info, but our business plans change when things materialize. EVEN when I have inside information due to an NDA, I could easily press our company without even mentioning the actual information, in the right direction. But I won't, it's a very bad habit to start.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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So, we are just about to begin a new project. We're now deciding which platform should be used. The bosses asked me about this, and I replied that my bet was on C++ and Win32, as usual. A colleague voted for Java ( X| ) and someone there even dared to suggest VB ( X| X| ). At any rate, the bosses are worried about the future of C++ and Win32. They read somewhere that Microsoft's next OS won't be supporting anything but .NET Framework, so they are not convinced that C++ with Win32 should be the best option. So I'd like to ask for your opinion about this... C++ still has a future? Should we choose C# and .NET over good old C++ and Win32? Thanks.
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
What John Cardinal said [^]
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C++ probably has the best future of any alternative, though it may not be the best choice for your solution. Don't forget a thing called C++/CLI. Yeah, it's a little hard to get used to and the documentation on it is horrible, but I have taken a "normal" C++ application and recompiled it for C++/CLI without any changes and it worked. A bigger point is that you shouldn't be basing decisions on fringe rumors about what may or may not happen to software 10 or 20 years down the line. Despite all the hype over C#, .NET could choke and die by then. (Yes, I've been around long enough to see many "rock solid" technologies do just that many times.) Having said all that, for me the only real contenders for a serious software project are C# and C++. Not only will it give you the best tools and widest selection of SDKs, you'll have an easier time hiring people than if you went with something else, even VB. (Contrary to the hype, in my working experience C# is not a clear winner unless you're talking about ASP.NET, then the debate is over before it began. I personally still prefer C++ and am more productive in it, but will use C#.NET if it's appropriate.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Joe Woodbury wrote:
A bigger point is that you shouldn't be basing decisions on fringe rumors about what may or may not happen to software 10 or 20 years down the line.
Yep, I know... In fact, I've been looking around Microsoft's news and blogs to find any information about that, yet I haven't been able to find any information. Part of the reason I posted this... er... post, was because I wanted to know if there were certain information from good sources. Yet as I suspected, they're only rumours (fortunately).
Joe Woodbury wrote:
I personally still prefer C++
So do I :). That's why I'm trying to refute the bosses' ideas. Thanks for your comments.
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Well pre-2003 would be 10 years and not 5.
like many people who aren't doing web stuff, i'm still writing native apps *. the world didn't switch to .Net when VS03 came out. * in fact, i'm still writing apps using a 16-bit IDE. (Clarion)
image processing toolkits | batch image processing | blogging
Chris Losinger wrote:
like many people who aren't doing web stuff, i'm still writing native apps *. the world didn't switch to .Net when VS03 came out.
Even if a post-Vista OS is released around 2012 that doesn't support user mode native C++ apps, it'd probably take another 2-3 years for people to adopt the new OS, so that'd give you a long time. And you can still use VC 2003/2005 to write apps for people who do not move to the new OS - just like how you still write 16 bit apps for people using a 16 bit compatible OS. There are folks making money writing Cobol and Fortran, so that'd give C++ devs hope for another 20 years at least. And if in 20 years time, I can't manage to get to a position where I don't need to write code to make a living, I would say that;d make me an unqualified failure in life. :)
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. (*Sample chapter available online*) -
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
They read somewhere that Microsoft's next OS won't be supporting anything but .NET Framework,
Ah yes, the mystical and wonderful "somewhere", where all is good, right and overflowing with an abundance of useful information :) You might politely suggest they upgrade their reading materials to something a bit factually correct. I would think that making corporate IT decisions based on cheese-whiz articles you read on the pot from places like "Super PC IT Weekly" would be a really bad idea. But who knows, I've been wrong before.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Techno Silliness
Jim Crafton wrote:
the mystical and wonderful "somewhere"
Well, they gave me sources, yet none was from a Microsoft's site, so I didn't pay attention to them.
Jim Crafton wrote:
I would think that making corporate IT decisions based on cheese-whiz articles
I agree, that's why I'm looking for information on how to refute the bosses :).
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
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Muammar© wrote:
I'd always use C# for my new projects cuz I believe, if I came to face any limitation, it must be because of me, not the language!
Limitations like lack of compile-time templates and inline assembly would be your fault then? :rolleyes:
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. (*Sample chapter available online*)Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Limitations like lack of compile-time templates and inline assembly would be your fault then?
:laugh::laugh:.. come on!! be fair to C#, unless you prefer to code in VB X| :laugh:
Smile: A curve that can set a lot of things straight! (\ /) (O.o) (><)
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Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
They read somewhere that Microsoft's next OS won't be supporting anything but .NET Framework, so they are not convinced that C++ with Win32 should be the best option.
Sure Microsoft would "like" all applications in the world to be .Net. This would be grand, for them. Will it happen? tough to say for sure, Always in motion the Future is. Sometimes, let a Jedi know what may likely happen, the Force can. But show what definitely will happen, the Force cannot. err... uhmm... sorry about that.... Anyhow, you can read a lot from the past, and it supports the rumors, but not the likelihood. In Windows 95 Microsoft tried to kill OpenGL after the failed strong-arm at the Fahrenheit group and all members walked out on MS. OpenGL is still here. They tried again with XP, OpenGL is still here. They tried again with Vista, and were almost successful, but vendor pressure from numerous developer fronts, from Entertainment to Military. OpenGL is back. Microsoft provided the C++/CLI in hope to offer a bridge to .Net, but no one really wanted anyone to stay there, so more encouragement is put on C#. C++ survived. But if you want to talk to your boss about long range pipe dreams of MS and other companies, many would like you to have thin-clients, lease software off their servers for only the time of use, and pay everything as a service. So if they want to plan for rumors, pull out and throw away all their hard-drives and give them all internet appliences. :-D Rumors are handy to keep in mind, and perhaps plan for possibilities, but never base business plans on rumors. I do follow rumors, I do follow leaks of info, but our business plans change when things materialize. EVEN when I have inside information due to an NDA, I could easily press our company without even mentioning the actual information, in the right direction. But I won't, it's a very bad habit to start.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
This would be grand, for them. Will it happen? tough to say for sure, Always in motion the Future is. Sometimes, let a Jedi know what may likely happen, the Force can. But show what definitely will happen, the Force cannot. err... uhmm... sorry about that....
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: Ah! That reminded me of the SW thread posted a few days ago... Thanks for your comments.
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site