Which platform?
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Depending on the type of application, you might even consider Ruby. We have written several Ruby GUI apps (using FxRuby) that are well received. 1) For performance and heavy lifting (apps like Internet Explorer, Database servers, networking, high end graphics) - C++. 2) For quick, troublefree, functional desktop apps / batch processing - Ruby. 3) For web - C# / ASP
Vivek Rajan wrote:
For quick, troublefree, functional desktop apps / batch processing - Ruby.
Hows That? Using what UI toolkit? And, how about deplploying that thing? Have you ever tried to build a ui with Ruby? It's a complete pain in the tail using tk or wX. If it weren't for rails, we wouldn't be talking about ruby at all. And, IMHO, batch processing should happen quickly, ruby's current VM is slower than molasses.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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Hey - I got a reply notification from you, but the post's gone now. Accidentally posted some NDA stuff?
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. (*Sample chapter available online*)Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Accidentally posted some NDA stuff?
Not really, but it occured to me that maybe the person I heard the news from may not be happy about my post :)
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Accidentally posted some NDA stuff?
Not really, but it occured to me that maybe the person I heard the news from may not be happy about my post :)
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
Not really, but it occured to me that maybe the person I heard the news from may not be happy about my post
Okay, the mail notification has been erased - so it's all good now.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. (*Sample chapter available online*) -
So, we are just about to begin a new project. We're now deciding which platform should be used. The bosses asked me about this, and I replied that my bet was on C++ and Win32, as usual. A colleague voted for Java ( X| ) and someone there even dared to suggest VB ( X| X| ). At any rate, the bosses are worried about the future of C++ and Win32. They read somewhere that Microsoft's next OS won't be supporting anything but .NET Framework, so they are not convinced that C++ with Win32 should be the best option. So I'd like to ask for your opinion about this... C++ still has a future? Should we choose C# and .NET over good old C++ and Win32? Thanks.
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
If performance and portability matters, C and or C++ hands down. There is a healthy number of 3rd party ui toolkits and frameworks that give MFC etc a real run for their money. If it's a business app doing the database thing and you aren't worried about future ports to other operating systems, then C# & .net would be the top contender in my opinion. And, C++ isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Disabling user-mode native code would be absolutely insane and incredibly stupid and I seriously doubt that MS is that foolish.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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Yep, I know... I'm going to rephrase the question. Should we even consider C++ and Win32, given the fact that Microsoft could not support it in the next version of Windows?
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
Should we even consider C++ and Win32, given the fact that Microsoft could not support it in the next version of Windows?
Nope
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Did you happen to catch the Channel 9 video that interviewed the guys on the C++ team? They indicated that Orcas would have increased emphasis on native code development. This does not sound as if they are getting ready to retire native code support any time soon.
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
Oh, yes, while I didn't view the interview, I read about it in a MSDN blog. That could be one reason to refute the bosses' idea. Thanks!
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
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And this is one of the issues why I think the app needs to be written in C++, not .NET.
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
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Depending on the type of application, you might even consider Ruby. We have written several Ruby GUI apps (using FxRuby) that are well received. 1) For performance and heavy lifting (apps like Internet Explorer, Database servers, networking, high end graphics) - C++. 2) For quick, troublefree, functional desktop apps / batch processing - Ruby. 3) For web - C# / ASP
Vivek Rajan wrote:
We have written several Ruby GUI apps (using FxRuby) that are well received.
Win95 look in Vista?? X|
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John Cardinal wrote:
Well to be fair my 39th birthday passed (unnoticed here as usual, I guess I should stop being such a dick if I want people to wish me happy birthday ) a few days ago and I haven't lost any knack or desire for grasping new technologies unlike the bunch of luddites that hang out here.
Well, you are in Canada and all that below-freezing weather slows down your ageing, so your brain age must be that of a 20 year old American :rolleyes:
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. (*Sample chapter available online*) -
It depends on the app. C# w/ .NET has become a far better, far less dirty "Quick 'n' Dirty" RAD platform than VB ever was. And it's flexible enough that you can still use many non-managed components, if that's a necessity. That said, C++ still wins out if you're looking to go cross-platform. C++ still wins out if you're looking for maximum performance (provided you have the skills to actually take advantage of what it gives you). And straight Win32 wins out if... well, screw that. In the scenarios where straight Win32 wins out, the alternatives are too horrible to even contemplate, much less actively consider alternatives. So, yeah. If you're doing the standard "business app" where the bottlenecks are in front of the keyboard or across the network, C# on .NET. If you're doing a web app, C# on ASP.NET or Java are both good choices.
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It appears that everybody is under the impression that I approve of the documentation. You probably also blame Ken Burns for supporting slavery.
--Raymond Chen on MSDN
Shog9 wrote:
That said, C++ still wins out if you're looking to go cross-platform.
Not true at all, MONO is just about complete for .net 2 and will be soon for .net "3" and it's supported on many different platforms including windows, linux, mac, bsd etc: http://www.mono-project.com/Supported_Platforms[^] And even better you don't even need to recompile your assemblies, you just copy them over and run the program. Can't beat that.
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.net - no questions.
.net is a box of never ending treasures, every day I get find another gem.
norm .net wrote:
.net - no questions.
What else? I don't understand the discussions here! :confused: :~ :suss:
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Depending on the type of application, you might even consider Ruby. We have written several Ruby GUI apps (using FxRuby) that are well received. 1) For performance and heavy lifting (apps like Internet Explorer, Database servers, networking, high end graphics) - C++. 2) For quick, troublefree, functional desktop apps / batch processing - Ruby. 3) For web - C# / ASP
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If performance and portability matters, C and or C++ hands down. There is a healthy number of 3rd party ui toolkits and frameworks that give MFC etc a real run for their money. If it's a business app doing the database thing and you aren't worried about future ports to other operating systems, then C# & .net would be the top contender in my opinion. And, C++ isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Disabling user-mode native code would be absolutely insane and incredibly stupid and I seriously doubt that MS is that foolish.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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I'm continually mystified how c# has got a rep as an asp language when the vast majority of apps out there written in c# are windows forms applications and it does very well at this.
It think because so much hype is focused on the Web these days. Also, I don't think that Winforms got the same marketing touch and polish that ASP.net did initially. Personally, I think winforms are ok. And the .net delegate model really helps this as well. But, I've found that unless you enforce the use of a MVC style framework on the project you end up with a vb like application with all of the business logic coded in the OnClick methods in the forms code behind.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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.net is king of portability, if you can write a .net app you can simply copy the executable to Linux, Mac osx, Sun solaris, * BSD. How c++ can trump that I can't imagine. http://www.mono-project.com/Supported_Platforms[^]
No offense John, but the UI's in mono pretty much suck on non-linux or windows machines. On OS X it looks like crap, as you are greeted with X-Windows style widgets at times. I should also add, that when mono can match the .net api 100% I'd consider it for a db style business app.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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.net is king of portability, if you can write a .net app you can simply copy the executable to Linux, Mac osx, Sun solaris, * BSD. How c++ can trump that I can't imagine. http://www.mono-project.com/Supported_Platforms[^]
"Mono current version is 1.2.3 (as of February 2007). This version provides the core API of the .NET Framework 2.0, but its implementation of this API is still incomplete. Complete support for the .NET Framework 2.0, including the .NET 2.0 version of Windows.Forms, is planned for Mono 2.2, by the end of 2007. Implementation of .NET Framework 3.0 is under development under an experimental Mono subproject called Olive, but the availability of a Mono framework supporting .NET 3.0 is still not planned yet." Sounds like you'd be better off using Java. ;)
Kicking squealing Gucci little piggy.
The Rob Blog -
It think because so much hype is focused on the Web these days. Also, I don't think that Winforms got the same marketing touch and polish that ASP.net did initially. Personally, I think winforms are ok. And the .net delegate model really helps this as well. But, I've found that unless you enforce the use of a MVC style framework on the project you end up with a vb like application with all of the business logic coded in the OnClick methods in the forms code behind.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
Chris Austin wrote:
vb like application with all of the business logic coded in the OnClick methods in the forms code behind
Hmm..I'm not sure I understand that. All my business logic is in a business logic library several layers below the UI in typical .net winform and asp.net apps. I think there is nothing ineherently different about winform versus mfc in terms of where the business logic is; you can code it however you want to.
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No offense John, but the UI's in mono pretty much suck on non-linux or windows machines. On OS X it looks like crap, as you are greeted with X-Windows style widgets at times. I should also add, that when mono can match the .net api 100% I'd consider it for a db style business app.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
Well the UI looks crappy in windows as well unless you snazz it up with a nice 3rd party component library like Telerik or zillions of others. Sure it's a bit early days yet, but most of the 3rd party UI and other component vendors have already signalled their willingness to ensure their stuff runs under MONO so in a couple of years it may not matter what you are running on. Still for sheer portability (however it *looks*) you can't beat MONO.
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Well the UI looks crappy in windows as well unless you snazz it up with a nice 3rd party component library like Telerik or zillions of others. Sure it's a bit early days yet, but most of the 3rd party UI and other component vendors have already signalled their willingness to ensure their stuff runs under MONO so in a couple of years it may not matter what you are running on. Still for sheer portability (however it *looks*) you can't beat MONO.
If it doesn't support the API 100% it's not portable.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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"Mono current version is 1.2.3 (as of February 2007). This version provides the core API of the .NET Framework 2.0, but its implementation of this API is still incomplete. Complete support for the .NET Framework 2.0, including the .NET 2.0 version of Windows.Forms, is planned for Mono 2.2, by the end of 2007. Implementation of .NET Framework 3.0 is under development under an experimental Mono subproject called Olive, but the availability of a Mono framework supporting .NET 3.0 is still not planned yet." Sounds like you'd be better off using Java. ;)
Kicking squealing Gucci little piggy.
The Rob BlogAhh but did you look at what is not actually completed yet? Very little of general use. Let's be honest here, 99% of most deployed .net 2 apps today are almost entirely .net 1.1 compatible and for the few things that they require .net 2 level support such as generics (for example, there are other things obviously) MONO already supports it. The only stuff not supported is more on the esoteric side and if you are starting a new app as the OP is now then it's really not out of the realm of possibility to target .net for MONO for q1 2008. As for .net 3 considering the howls of indignation posted here when anyone talks about using WPF or WCF I really don't see that as any kind of issue at the moment.
