Things an employer cannot ask during an interview...
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Here in Canada there are many things like this: -Fresh out of University. Government will subisidize 80% of their salary -Research Fund. Hiring someone to do research in a field not yet explored in Canada. Government will subsidize a lot of the funding/salaries -Hiring Disabled people etc.
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I guess the saying is true: You cannot have your cake and eat it. What upsets me is how it is all so unnecessary. There are funds to pay for all of this being wasted every day by the government on dead-end projects and useless departments country-wide. Give the national savings budget to a private company and let them invest it for profits -- we'll all get a better return on it, and everyone benefits.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
Yea, I've seen that too. My boss and I actually google people he interviews to see where they pop up in the newspapers as far as weddings & children go so we don't need to ask them... I wonder if that's illegal too :D
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MrBic wrote:
-Fresh out of University. Government will subisidize 80% of their salary
I've never heard of this. What program is that? Cheers, Drew.
I would like to know too. Also, does it still apply to overseas companies doing the hiring? Seriously, I really like that idea. Sadly we would never be able to offer a scheme like that over here as it would discriminate against those not going to university. (If there is anyone not going to university anymore, I believe the government has watered down the requirements enough so aptitude is no longer required and the universitys need to meet their quotas.)
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
It depends on the building. Where I currently work (we're on the 2nd story, and parking is in the basement) there are no elevators or disabled access. The reason? THis building was built before those laws were made so it does not need to be upgraded to meet them as it was grandfathered in. We have single bathroom stalls, meaning only one person can go in them at one time, which means they're unisex, male and female can both use them. (yea no urinals, kinda annoying for the guys :(
MrBic wrote:
It depends on the building.
I agree with this. Here we have a law that protects many buildings from being modified. Some of them are even protected by the UNESCO. So many of this buildings aren't allowed to be changed, for example, to add another bathroom. Indeed, some of this buildings are from the 18th, 17th and even 16th century (all of the 15th century's buildings are owned by the government, as many others from different times), when they didn't use toilets. So no bathroom facilities in those. Thanks to the gods that it is forbidden to use ancient Pyramids as offices :).
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
I believe the term is working-girls.
"Sexoservidoras", or "Sexservers", here. If you call 'em otherwise, you can be fined by the government. :~
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
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Paul Watson wrote:
Eh? Which gender is incapable of piloting a vehicle?
He is referring to age, not sex. Pilots have mandatory retirement earlier than most other industries so they cannot afford to hire older people or they will not recoup their investment. As Jeffry says, it can take many years for pilots to gain the required experience in their field.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milkDavid Wulff wrote:
Pilots have mandatory retirement earlier than most other industries so they cannot afford to hire older people or they will not recoup their investment.
In that case, though, there is probably a license required as proof to work in the industry which would state the DOB. You still can't or shouldn't ask IMO.
CleaKO
"I think you'll be okay here, they have a thin candy shell. 'Surprised you didn't know that.'" - Tommy (Tommy Boy)
"Fill it up again! Fill it up again! Once it hits your lips, it's so good!" - Frank the Tank (Old School) -
Steve Maier wrote:
if they plan to have kids soon (esp for a woman)
That is absurd, and sadly it is the same here. Here's the extreme: I run a small business with a few fulltime employees. I hired them all based on experience, and (more important to me) future potential. If they want to start a family then they will have my full support, and if their position is still commercially viable when they want to return then they are welcome to come back again (their skill and potential is still going to be there). FWIW, I have offered very good contracts, better than most would find in the public sector, because I recognise that life needs to fit naturally with work for a happy employee. However, under UK law, I will have to pay them their full salary and benefits, and hire another person to do their job for anywhere from 6 months to 18 months. That is a temp at £30k + the original salary of £35k + the costs of training and about a month of downtime. In return the government gives me the equivalent of 5% of their salary back for my efforts. Taxed, naturally. I am required to find the additional £60k odd a year out of thin air. I wish my mortgage was that good a deal. I could just phone up and have the lender pay it off for two years while I had a new baby. Having children is a lifestyle choice. Employers should not be allowed to prevent it for any reason whatsoever but if the government wants the already struggling small businesses in this country to act as their social security blanket then they will need compensation. Anything less than 90% is an utter disgrace. If two of my employees left to start a family then I wouldn't even bother to look for a temp replacement. I would go straight to the bank, draw out all the money in cash to give to them then file for personal and business bankrupcy. At least that way cuts out the hassle of all the government forms for the same net result. Afterall, what is my life and the lives of my other employees worth compared to the social security of the few? I already pay for their social security -- before tax every £1 of their salary costs me £1.40 with 20p going into private pension funds for their retirement and at least 60p going to the treasury. 20p is in national insurance to subsidse future social benefits. After taxes the state is on a higher salary than my highest paid employee and they give small businesses fuck all in return. I'm sorry for the rant, but after yet more public
David Wulff wrote:
However, under UK law, I will have to pay them their full salary and benefits, and hire another person to do their job for anywhere from 6 months to 18 months. That is a temp at £30k + the original salary of £35k + the costs of training and about a month of downtime. In return the government gives me the equivalent of 5% of their salary back for my efforts. Taxed, naturally. I am required to find the additional £60k odd a year out of thin air.
Wow. That's pretty extreme. In Canada they get employment insurance (55% of their annual income) for up to 12 months. There are no requirements to top up their income although lots of employers do (some even top up to 100%). When they choose to return, a similar position must be available for them. Cheers, Drew.
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David Wulff wrote:
Pilots have mandatory retirement earlier than most other industries so they cannot afford to hire older people or they will not recoup their investment.
In that case, though, there is probably a license required as proof to work in the industry which would state the DOB. You still can't or shouldn't ask IMO.
CleaKO
"I think you'll be okay here, they have a thin candy shell. 'Surprised you didn't know that.'" - Tommy (Tommy Boy)
"Fill it up again! Fill it up again! Once it hits your lips, it's so good!" - Frank the Tank (Old School)The very act of asking to see such a license, if it contained a DOB, would be illegal.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
That isn't hiring based on age. That is hiring based on diversity, which the law allows. So if an old guy comes in and you want fresh new ideas you find out if he has any and if he doesn't then you don't hire him. Not because he is old.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
Paul Watson wrote:
So if an old guy comes in and you want fresh new ideas you find out if he has any and if he doesn't then you don't hire him. Not because he is old.
A question. In a court, how would you distinguish among this two options? I mean, let's say that you didn't hire the grandpa because he didn't have any fresh new idea. Yet he sues you and he says that you didn't hire him because he's old. How would you defend yourself?
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
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So my boss is doing an interview for a few coop students (coop is like internship in the USA). I gave him a question and said he should ask it, this question was: Give the intervewee a Tank, Lava Lamp, Cake and a Balloon. And then ask the person what they'd do with it. To test it out my boss asked us developers what we'd do, and instantly one person said: "Run the Customers over with the tank and then go back to work and celebrate by eating cake, and decorate your desk with baloons and lavalamps". Another said "Shoot the customers with the tank, use the cake as a diversion so management doesn't find out, scare the secrataryoffice administrator with the baloon and then use the lava lamp to make your desk look cool." We had a good laugh... we then started talking about what you "cannot" ask during an interview. Which include: -Person Age -Persons Religion -Persons Political Standing -Persons Sex The 1st and the last bugged me as I believe an employer should have total control over who they hire, and why they hire them. But asking someone their "Sex"... in Canada, if you ask someone their "Sex" and you do NOT hire them, you can be: Sued, taken to a tribunal, arrested and many other dumb things. Stupid laws. No wonder so many people are confused, no one ever asked them what sex they were :laugh:
I had a bad interview for a company. A coworker of my hubby also had a bad interview there. The lady being interviewed had at some point mentioned that she was soon getting married. The interviewer grilled her on when she planned to have kids because she didn't want to hire someone who was going to take family leave. In a weird twist of fate I met the interviewer's boss, the head of HR. I told her about her recruiter. She was NOT happy.
_________________________________________ You can't fix stupid, but you can medicate crazy.
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I mean, if you call them prostitutes or any other related term. It's a law the city's government and deputies made in order to avoid discrimination, or so they said. Stupid law for me though.
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
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David Wulff wrote:
How many gay, black and ex-convict friends do you have? If it is not more than 50% then you'd better have a damned good lawyer...
Man! Soon they will obligate you to contract java programmers!
Engaged in the learning of English grammar. ;)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(John 3:16) :badger::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
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David Wulff wrote:
However, under UK law, I will have to pay them their full salary and benefits, and hire another person to do their job for anywhere from 6 months to 18 months. That is a temp at £30k + the original salary of £35k + the costs of training and about a month of downtime. In return the government gives me the equivalent of 5% of their salary back for my efforts. Taxed, naturally. I am required to find the additional £60k odd a year out of thin air.
Wow. That's pretty extreme. In Canada they get employment insurance (55% of their annual income) for up to 12 months. There are no requirements to top up their income although lots of employers do (some even top up to 100%). When they choose to return, a similar position must be available for them. Cheers, Drew.
It's hit and miss, as you say the specifics depend on their contract. I intentionally stated the extreme because that is how it happens with many small businesses, and many do not survive. To get the best people you need to at least offer the minimum that the big companies can. Not everyone will get 100% of their salary, but it will always need to be made up by the employer because SMP/SPP are below the legal minimum wage unless you put them on leave, and there are other legal implications with that. The employment insurance you talk of is provided by the small employer because the costs of joining a private scheme are prohibitive for companies like mine with less than ten employees. There are ways around it, but as a responsible employer I don't want to leave my employees out in the cold just because the government turns round and says "We're not listening, now pay up or we'll take your house".
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
I would like to know too. Also, does it still apply to overseas companies doing the hiring? Seriously, I really like that idea. Sadly we would never be able to offer a scheme like that over here as it would discriminate against those not going to university. (If there is anyone not going to university anymore, I believe the government has watered down the requirements enough so aptitude is no longer required and the universitys need to meet their quotas.)
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
You also cannot ask.... (at least in the US) marital status if they have kids sexual preference if they plan to have kids soon (esp for a woman) I had to take a small class from a corporate lawyer before we started interviewing people at Texas Instruments. The interviewee can bring any of those things up but you had to steer clear from it if they did.
Steve Maier
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So my boss is doing an interview for a few coop students (coop is like internship in the USA). I gave him a question and said he should ask it, this question was: Give the intervewee a Tank, Lava Lamp, Cake and a Balloon. And then ask the person what they'd do with it. To test it out my boss asked us developers what we'd do, and instantly one person said: "Run the Customers over with the tank and then go back to work and celebrate by eating cake, and decorate your desk with baloons and lavalamps". Another said "Shoot the customers with the tank, use the cake as a diversion so management doesn't find out, scare the secrataryoffice administrator with the baloon and then use the lava lamp to make your desk look cool." We had a good laugh... we then started talking about what you "cannot" ask during an interview. Which include: -Person Age -Persons Religion -Persons Political Standing -Persons Sex The 1st and the last bugged me as I believe an employer should have total control over who they hire, and why they hire them. But asking someone their "Sex"... in Canada, if you ask someone their "Sex" and you do NOT hire them, you can be: Sued, taken to a tribunal, arrested and many other dumb things. Stupid laws. No wonder so many people are confused, no one ever asked them what sex they were :laugh:
I think that somehow the laws are scary... I can get sued for asking age or sex to somebody... I can imagine at least one reason for asking the two questions: AGE: as younger is the candidate more time he/she can work in the company (but of course it is easy to guess it looking at the curriculum vitae). SEX: if I have two technicians that must go to my customer enterprise and that enterprise is in other country or city they must stay in two separate hotel rooms, if they are of the same sex this is not a problem. Some time ago one enterprise here in Spain wanted to hire people and in their announcement they asked for people from 25 to 40 years old. I was surprised because some days after in the news they appeared being sued because they were discriminating people that were out of that age range. Of course I never ask for that information and I don't mind at all about that, as I told before I've had people that is older than me, others that are younger, some males and some females, working for me, no difference at all... All of them have given me some knowledge that has been very useful so... :rolleyes:
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True, the only reason most would "ask it" would be to use it as a bias. I just find it amazing you cannot, even though you can find it out quite easily. Sex - easiest to find out. THere is no need to ask, but even if you know the answer, you still can't ask it. It's more a question about freedom. Age - Look at the schooling. When they graduated, when they started work. It's pretty easy to get how old they are within 3 years. yet, you cannot ask it.
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Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
I work in a hanger built in the early 50's. We have men and women's restrooms.
Probably it was meant for blacks and whites back then :rolleyes: (ok, a bit tasteless nowadays...) P.S. see my reply to Paul above
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighistpeterchen wrote:
Probably it was meant for
err... post Rosie the Riviter[^] era. Women entered the workforce in "force" to support the war effort, and no one could force them back out, luckily.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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So my boss is doing an interview for a few coop students (coop is like internship in the USA). I gave him a question and said he should ask it, this question was: Give the intervewee a Tank, Lava Lamp, Cake and a Balloon. And then ask the person what they'd do with it. To test it out my boss asked us developers what we'd do, and instantly one person said: "Run the Customers over with the tank and then go back to work and celebrate by eating cake, and decorate your desk with baloons and lavalamps". Another said "Shoot the customers with the tank, use the cake as a diversion so management doesn't find out, scare the secrataryoffice administrator with the baloon and then use the lava lamp to make your desk look cool." We had a good laugh... we then started talking about what you "cannot" ask during an interview. Which include: -Person Age -Persons Religion -Persons Political Standing -Persons Sex The 1st and the last bugged me as I believe an employer should have total control over who they hire, and why they hire them. But asking someone their "Sex"... in Canada, if you ask someone their "Sex" and you do NOT hire them, you can be: Sued, taken to a tribunal, arrested and many other dumb things. Stupid laws. No wonder so many people are confused, no one ever asked them what sex they were :laugh:
OK, this is useful. You cannot ask about someone's: - Age - Religion - Politics - Sex and sexual preference (latex) - If they have or are planning to have kids - If they are or are planning marriage I assume you also cannot ask about someone's race or species. But can you ask about: - Height - Medical conditions (like eyesight) - Physical adnormalities - Mental illnesses - Medication