Things an employer cannot ask during an interview...
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That isn't hiring based on age. That is hiring based on diversity, which the law allows. So if an old guy comes in and you want fresh new ideas you find out if he has any and if he doesn't then you don't hire him. Not because he is old.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
Paul Watson wrote:
So if an old guy comes in and you want fresh new ideas you find out if he has any and if he doesn't then you don't hire him. Not because he is old.
A question. In a court, how would you distinguish among this two options? I mean, let's say that you didn't hire the grandpa because he didn't have any fresh new idea. Yet he sues you and he says that you didn't hire him because he's old. How would you defend yourself?
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
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So my boss is doing an interview for a few coop students (coop is like internship in the USA). I gave him a question and said he should ask it, this question was: Give the intervewee a Tank, Lava Lamp, Cake and a Balloon. And then ask the person what they'd do with it. To test it out my boss asked us developers what we'd do, and instantly one person said: "Run the Customers over with the tank and then go back to work and celebrate by eating cake, and decorate your desk with baloons and lavalamps". Another said "Shoot the customers with the tank, use the cake as a diversion so management doesn't find out, scare the secrataryoffice administrator with the baloon and then use the lava lamp to make your desk look cool." We had a good laugh... we then started talking about what you "cannot" ask during an interview. Which include: -Person Age -Persons Religion -Persons Political Standing -Persons Sex The 1st and the last bugged me as I believe an employer should have total control over who they hire, and why they hire them. But asking someone their "Sex"... in Canada, if you ask someone their "Sex" and you do NOT hire them, you can be: Sued, taken to a tribunal, arrested and many other dumb things. Stupid laws. No wonder so many people are confused, no one ever asked them what sex they were :laugh:
I had a bad interview for a company. A coworker of my hubby also had a bad interview there. The lady being interviewed had at some point mentioned that she was soon getting married. The interviewer grilled her on when she planned to have kids because she didn't want to hire someone who was going to take family leave. In a weird twist of fate I met the interviewer's boss, the head of HR. I told her about her recruiter. She was NOT happy.
_________________________________________ You can't fix stupid, but you can medicate crazy.
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I mean, if you call them prostitutes or any other related term. It's a law the city's government and deputies made in order to avoid discrimination, or so they said. Stupid law for me though.
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
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David Wulff wrote:
How many gay, black and ex-convict friends do you have? If it is not more than 50% then you'd better have a damned good lawyer...
Man! Soon they will obligate you to contract java programmers!
Engaged in the learning of English grammar. ;)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(John 3:16) :badger::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
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David Wulff wrote:
However, under UK law, I will have to pay them their full salary and benefits, and hire another person to do their job for anywhere from 6 months to 18 months. That is a temp at £30k + the original salary of £35k + the costs of training and about a month of downtime. In return the government gives me the equivalent of 5% of their salary back for my efforts. Taxed, naturally. I am required to find the additional £60k odd a year out of thin air.
Wow. That's pretty extreme. In Canada they get employment insurance (55% of their annual income) for up to 12 months. There are no requirements to top up their income although lots of employers do (some even top up to 100%). When they choose to return, a similar position must be available for them. Cheers, Drew.
It's hit and miss, as you say the specifics depend on their contract. I intentionally stated the extreme because that is how it happens with many small businesses, and many do not survive. To get the best people you need to at least offer the minimum that the big companies can. Not everyone will get 100% of their salary, but it will always need to be made up by the employer because SMP/SPP are below the legal minimum wage unless you put them on leave, and there are other legal implications with that. The employment insurance you talk of is provided by the small employer because the costs of joining a private scheme are prohibitive for companies like mine with less than ten employees. There are ways around it, but as a responsible employer I don't want to leave my employees out in the cold just because the government turns round and says "We're not listening, now pay up or we'll take your house".
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
I would like to know too. Also, does it still apply to overseas companies doing the hiring? Seriously, I really like that idea. Sadly we would never be able to offer a scheme like that over here as it would discriminate against those not going to university. (If there is anyone not going to university anymore, I believe the government has watered down the requirements enough so aptitude is no longer required and the universitys need to meet their quotas.)
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
You also cannot ask.... (at least in the US) marital status if they have kids sexual preference if they plan to have kids soon (esp for a woman) I had to take a small class from a corporate lawyer before we started interviewing people at Texas Instruments. The interviewee can bring any of those things up but you had to steer clear from it if they did.
Steve Maier
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So my boss is doing an interview for a few coop students (coop is like internship in the USA). I gave him a question and said he should ask it, this question was: Give the intervewee a Tank, Lava Lamp, Cake and a Balloon. And then ask the person what they'd do with it. To test it out my boss asked us developers what we'd do, and instantly one person said: "Run the Customers over with the tank and then go back to work and celebrate by eating cake, and decorate your desk with baloons and lavalamps". Another said "Shoot the customers with the tank, use the cake as a diversion so management doesn't find out, scare the secrataryoffice administrator with the baloon and then use the lava lamp to make your desk look cool." We had a good laugh... we then started talking about what you "cannot" ask during an interview. Which include: -Person Age -Persons Religion -Persons Political Standing -Persons Sex The 1st and the last bugged me as I believe an employer should have total control over who they hire, and why they hire them. But asking someone their "Sex"... in Canada, if you ask someone their "Sex" and you do NOT hire them, you can be: Sued, taken to a tribunal, arrested and many other dumb things. Stupid laws. No wonder so many people are confused, no one ever asked them what sex they were :laugh:
I think that somehow the laws are scary... I can get sued for asking age or sex to somebody... I can imagine at least one reason for asking the two questions: AGE: as younger is the candidate more time he/she can work in the company (but of course it is easy to guess it looking at the curriculum vitae). SEX: if I have two technicians that must go to my customer enterprise and that enterprise is in other country or city they must stay in two separate hotel rooms, if they are of the same sex this is not a problem. Some time ago one enterprise here in Spain wanted to hire people and in their announcement they asked for people from 25 to 40 years old. I was surprised because some days after in the news they appeared being sued because they were discriminating people that were out of that age range. Of course I never ask for that information and I don't mind at all about that, as I told before I've had people that is older than me, others that are younger, some males and some females, working for me, no difference at all... All of them have given me some knowledge that has been very useful so... :rolleyes:
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True, the only reason most would "ask it" would be to use it as a bias. I just find it amazing you cannot, even though you can find it out quite easily. Sex - easiest to find out. THere is no need to ask, but even if you know the answer, you still can't ask it. It's more a question about freedom. Age - Look at the schooling. When they graduated, when they started work. It's pretty easy to get how old they are within 3 years. yet, you cannot ask it.
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Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
I work in a hanger built in the early 50's. We have men and women's restrooms.
Probably it was meant for blacks and whites back then :rolleyes: (ok, a bit tasteless nowadays...) P.S. see my reply to Paul above
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighistpeterchen wrote:
Probably it was meant for
err... post Rosie the Riviter[^] era. Women entered the workforce in "force" to support the war effort, and no one could force them back out, luckily.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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So my boss is doing an interview for a few coop students (coop is like internship in the USA). I gave him a question and said he should ask it, this question was: Give the intervewee a Tank, Lava Lamp, Cake and a Balloon. And then ask the person what they'd do with it. To test it out my boss asked us developers what we'd do, and instantly one person said: "Run the Customers over with the tank and then go back to work and celebrate by eating cake, and decorate your desk with baloons and lavalamps". Another said "Shoot the customers with the tank, use the cake as a diversion so management doesn't find out, scare the secrataryoffice administrator with the baloon and then use the lava lamp to make your desk look cool." We had a good laugh... we then started talking about what you "cannot" ask during an interview. Which include: -Person Age -Persons Religion -Persons Political Standing -Persons Sex The 1st and the last bugged me as I believe an employer should have total control over who they hire, and why they hire them. But asking someone their "Sex"... in Canada, if you ask someone their "Sex" and you do NOT hire them, you can be: Sued, taken to a tribunal, arrested and many other dumb things. Stupid laws. No wonder so many people are confused, no one ever asked them what sex they were :laugh:
OK, this is useful. You cannot ask about someone's: - Age - Religion - Politics - Sex and sexual preference (latex) - If they have or are planning to have kids - If they are or are planning marriage I assume you also cannot ask about someone's race or species. But can you ask about: - Height - Medical conditions (like eyesight) - Physical adnormalities - Mental illnesses - Medication
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peterchen wrote:
Hiring Gender B would allow the new employee to demand separate restrooms, which requires major changes to the plumbing, or for which you would need to move to a new office.
I am flabbergasted you and Nish seem to live in countries that don't already demand separate facilities irrespective of employee makeup. Here in Ireland a building has to have facilities for both genders and for the disabled. Same back home in South Africa. Do these companies that only have male toilets only have male clients that visit? What happens when a female client visits?
peterchen wrote:
Your area of business benefits from long-term / lifelong employment, but the place already looks like a geriatric ward. To give your company a future, you decide to hire young people.
Weak argument.
peterchen wrote:
You run a bar catering to 25-35 year old male singles.
You'll find this sorts itself out without recourse to filtering CVs.
peterchen wrote:
You are hiring pilots.
Eh? Which gender is incapable of piloting a vehicle?
peterchen wrote:
Your best clients are men-hating lesbians.
:rolleyes: Come on peterchen.
peterchen wrote:
Your company, parent company or your contry has regulations that give older people better benefits, or limits your ability to fire them.
So hire young people and fire them before they get too old? :laugh:
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
Paul Watson wrote:
Do these companies that only have male toilets only have male clients that visit? What happens when a female client visits?
To make things simple for everybody, I think they should make toilets like the ones on an airplane (genderless), but with more room. I never went into the female restroom in my company for obvious reasons. One day the cleaning lady kept the door wide open which allowed me to see what was inside: They had a nice looking sofa! Why can't we have one in the male restroom? Not that I like to sit down after doing my business. :-D
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Age: Look at graduation dates on education, total years of experience from CV Religion: Mention that you like to see hobbies and interests on CV Political Standing: Place political satire jokes around the office before interview and await comments Sex: Duh, have a look. Marital Status: Ring? No Ring Kids: Mention that you are considering providing daycare as a perk and ask if that would be a perk that would interest the candidate. All illegal questions have legal counterpart questions to reveal the answer.
File Not Found
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
Marital Status: Ring? No Ring
That's not a real good one. I've been married for 20 years and haven't worn a ring for more than 1/2 of that time. My father, up to 54 years with my mother, never wore one for the 27 years he worked due to job considerations. Now that he's retired, he still doesn't wear one (doesn't fit well in his golf grip, I guess). JudyL
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The very act of asking to see such a license, if it contained a DOB, would be illegal.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milkDavid Wulff wrote:
The very act of asking to see such a license, if it contained a DOB, would be illegal.
Well then how do they prove they are qualified or legally able to fly?
CleaKO
"I think you'll be okay here, they have a thin candy shell. 'Surprised you didn't know that.'" - Tommy (Tommy Boy)
"Fill it up again! Fill it up again! Once it hits your lips, it's so good!" - Frank the Tank (Old School) -
OK, this is useful. You cannot ask about someone's: - Age - Religion - Politics - Sex and sexual preference (latex) - If they have or are planning to have kids - If they are or are planning marriage I assume you also cannot ask about someone's race or species. But can you ask about: - Height - Medical conditions (like eyesight) - Physical adnormalities - Mental illnesses - Medication
NealAB wrote:
I assume you also cannot ask about someone's race or species.
Why not ask about species? "Are you a human or a Twi'lek[^]?" would be a normal question these days.
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
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David Wulff wrote:
The very act of asking to see such a license, if it contained a DOB, would be illegal.
Well then how do they prove they are qualified or legally able to fly?
CleaKO
"I think you'll be okay here, they have a thin candy shell. 'Surprised you didn't know that.'" - Tommy (Tommy Boy)
"Fill it up again! Fill it up again! Once it hits your lips, it's so good!" - Frank the Tank (Old School)It's simple: you ask for for the license, and break the law. That is the problem with that law, and any other law created as a result of a PC campaign -- it is totally unenforcable in real life. Welcome to Britain.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
I mean, if you call them prostitutes or any other related term. It's a law the city's government and deputies made in order to avoid discrimination, or so they said. Stupid law for me though.
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
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OK, this is useful. You cannot ask about someone's: - Age - Religion - Politics - Sex and sexual preference (latex) - If they have or are planning to have kids - If they are or are planning marriage I assume you also cannot ask about someone's race or species. But can you ask about: - Height - Medical conditions (like eyesight) - Physical adnormalities - Mental illnesses - Medication
In the US all medical data is confidential. The employer cannot ask how bad the perscription for the glasses is. You cannot ask about mental illness or medication unless the medication. Now an applicant might say, "I have to take frequent breaks to monitor my diabetes." But if there is any indication you did not hire that person because of the diabetes, then you are in trouble.
_________________________________________ You can't fix stupid, but you can medicate crazy.
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Why wouldn't you hire someone based on age and sex?
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
Paul Watson wrote:
Why wouldn't you hire someone based on age and sex?
Because most women would prefer that the attendant in the woman's bathroom is female. Because many communities would object to having 16 year olds working as bartenders. Because many communities would object to having 8 year olds work at all. Because "seniors" (those in their 60+ years) would feel more comfortable discussing the problems that come with age, emotional, physical and financial, with someone who is say older than 40 than someone who is 18. Because clubs that cater to the 18+, or even 16+ crowd find that go-go dancers that are 60+ years do not draw crowds like those that are less than 30. Of course the last two could actually represent borderline cases. Those would be ones where one needs more information to decide if a candidate will work or not. Similar to deciding if someone who has 2 years of programming experience is actually going to fit for a job that was really supposed to require 4 years.
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It's simple: you ask for for the license, and break the law. That is the problem with that law, and any other law created as a result of a PC campaign -- it is totally unenforcable in real life. Welcome to Britain.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milkDavid Wulff wrote:
Welcome to Britain.
Sames laws here in the US.
CleaKO
"I think you'll be okay here, they have a thin candy shell. 'Surprised you didn't know that.'" - Tommy (Tommy Boy)
"Fill it up again! Fill it up again! Once it hits your lips, it's so good!" - Frank the Tank (Old School)