Did the Red Sea Part?
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Seas have never been parted, aren't parted, and will not be parted as described in the bible. That's not what large masses of water do. At the most, seas may have/will run dry, but hardly due to divine intervention. Since nobody can reproduce any evidence of any god's existence, you'd be hard pressed to find any evidence supporting the part of seas as described in the bible.
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:
Seas have never been parted
Being an atheist who's faith is based on physical evidence, can you provide me the evidence that verifies this claim?
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I'm not an archaeologist. If I were, I probably wouldn't find things supporting Islam. Likewise, I don't expect this chief archaeologist of Egypt to find evidence supporting the Jewish religion (which would not only invalidate his religion, but it would dirty his Egyptian nationality, and probably cause him to lose his job as chief archaeologist of Egypt!)
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Passover: Do this in remembrance of Me The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
Judah Himango wrote:
I'm not an archaeologist. If I were, I probably wouldn't find things supporting Islam.
Then you'd be a lousy archaeologist. ;)
Judah Himango wrote:
Likewise, I don't expect...
Is this your faith talking or do you know that he is letting bias effect him?
"If you drink, don't drive. Don't even putt." - Dean Martin
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Doesn't agree with your ideals, does he?
No, but that's besides another point. This guy is making the statement that an event did not occur because he has not seen any evidence of it. He stated that "If they get upset, I don’t care. This is my career as an archaeologist. I should tell them the truth. If the people are upset, that is not my problem." He also said, "Sometimes as archaeologists we have to say that never happened because there is no historical evidence." He's making a statement of fact based on a lack of evidence. It would be reasonable for him to say that he doubts it happened or that he doesn't believe it happened or that there is currently no archeological evidence that supports it, but to proclaim "truth" over a lack of evidence is disingenuous. What would be even more interesting is if this guy is Muslim (and given his name and location, I suspect he is). If that's the case, then we can see another similarity between Islamic fundamentalism and atheism...lack of physical evidence as the basis of faith. Addendum: If I farted 10 minutes ago, and you can't smell it, that doesn't mean I didn't fart.
So.. what are claims without supporting evidence? :~ It is always the task of the claimer to provide evidence.
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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Red Stateler wrote:
He's making a statement of fact based on a lack of evidence
That is exactly the argument of creationism against evolutionism: lack of evidence for it. So, if it works one way, why shouldn't it work the other way?
----- Formerly MP(2)
Le Centriste wrote:
That is exactly the argument of creationism against evolutionism: lack of evidence for it. So, if it works one way, why shouldn't it work the other way?
The argument for creationism is the Bible. You're thinking of intelligent design.
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So.. what are claims without supporting evidence? :~ It is always the task of the claimer to provide evidence.
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:
So.. what are claims without supporting evidence?
I don't have any. I don't know with 100% certainty that the Red Sea was parted. I also didn't make the claim. It's a historical account of an event.
Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:
It is always the task of the claimer to provide evidence.
And this guy made a claim. But his claim was based on his lack of evidence rather than evidence. Where is it?
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Le Centriste wrote:
That is exactly the argument of creationism against evolutionism: lack of evidence for it. So, if it works one way, why shouldn't it work the other way?
The argument for creationism is the Bible. You're thinking of intelligent design.
Whatever, it is the same bullshit.
----- Formerly MP(2)
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Of course these guys aren't going to find evidence contrary to their beliefs. :| This is an Egyptian-sponsored excavation? The last quote in the article addresses that pretty well. :) Maybe they're looking in the wrong place - Yam Suf in Hebrew is not the "Red Sea", it's the Reed Sea. :) Then again, I've read stories from several other archaeologists indicating they've found pieces of chariots and other artifacts deep in the Red Sea...who knows. I know what I believe, and that's enough for me. :cool: Happy Passover.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Passover: Do this in remembrance of Me The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
Judah Himango wrote:
Maybe they're looking in the wrong place - Yam Suf in Hebrew is not the "Red Sea", it's the Reed Sea.
There was a show about biblical battles on the History Channel that claimed it was the Reed Sea[^] and not the Red sea. They suggested that the Reed sea was a shallow swamp and Moses nipped across during the night while the tide was out. By the time the Egyptians realized they'd gone the tide was coming back in hence blocking their pursuit.
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Likewise, the good doctor certainly isn't Jewish or Christian; most likely Islamic. Of course such a person isn't going to find evidence for something patently Jewish. :) *edit* oh, he's the chief archaeologist of Egypt? Come on, Bassam - you really think that's an unbiased opinion? :rolleyes:
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Passover: Do this in remembrance of Me The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
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Seas have never been parted, aren't parted, and will not be parted as described in the bible. That's not what large masses of water do. At the most, seas may have/will run dry, but hardly due to divine intervention. Since nobody can reproduce any evidence of any god's existence, you'd be hard pressed to find any evidence supporting the part of seas as described in the bible.
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
Of course as an atheist, you believe that. As a religious person, I see evidence of God all around. I don't need a miracle to believe in God, but I do believe such things have happened. Joergen, you're selectively hearing the voices that confirm your opinion: there are several archaeologists claiming to have found evidence supporting the Exodus story. You may claim, "but they're religious and biased!" Well and true. However, same goes for this Egyptian head of archaeology: had he found something that confirmed the Exodus story, he would not only have invalidated his Islamic beliefs, but would have dirtied his Egyptian nationality, and probably would've lost his job as chief archaeologist of Egypt. What makes you believe him and not other archaeologists?
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Passover: Do this in remembrance of Me The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
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Judah Himango wrote:
...evidence for something patently Jewish.
Isn't the story of Moses accepted by Christians as well? What about Muslims?
"If you drink, don't drive. Don't even putt." - Dean Martin
The whole exodus story is accepted by Christians; all of Jewish Scripture is included in the Christian Bible. It is not accepted by Muslims.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Passover: Do this in remembrance of Me The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
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Whatever, it is the same bullshit.
----- Formerly MP(2)
Le Centriste wrote:
Whatever, it is the same bullsh*t.
Yes. It's the same in that we can see here how atheism is a religion. Though this archeologist is likely a Muslim, we have several atheists jumping to his aid...Asserting truth based on a lack of evidence. That should be the antithesis of atheism, but because the assertion supports the dogma, it's defended.
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Le Centriste wrote:
Whatever, it is the same bullsh*t.
Yes. It's the same in that we can see here how atheism is a religion. Though this archeologist is likely a Muslim, we have several atheists jumping to his aid...Asserting truth based on a lack of evidence. That should be the antithesis of atheism, but because the assertion supports the dogma, it's defended.
I don't remember who said that here, but it was something like: If atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby. And, btw, if an atheist agrees on something with someone that is not an atheist, it does not mean that atheism is a religion.
----- Formerly MP(2)
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Judah Himango wrote:
...evidence for something patently Jewish.
Isn't the story of Moses accepted by Christians as well? What about Muslims?
"If you drink, don't drive. Don't even putt." - Dean Martin
Kinda:
10:90 And We brought the Children of Israel across the sea, and Pharaoh with his hosts pursued them in rebellion and transgression, till, when the (fate of) drowning overtook him, he exclaimed: I believe that there is no God save Him in Whom the Children of Israel believe, and I am of those who surrender (unto Him).
Looks like Pharaoh became a Hanif.
10:93 And We verily did allot unto the Children of Israel a fixed abode, and did provide them with good things; and they differed not until the knowledge came unto them. Lo! thy Lord will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that wherein they used to differ.
Tell that to Hamas.
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The whole exodus story is accepted by Christians; all of Jewish Scripture is included in the Christian Bible. It is not accepted by Muslims.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Passover: Do this in remembrance of Me The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
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Of course as an atheist, you believe that. As a religious person, I see evidence of God all around. I don't need a miracle to believe in God, but I do believe such things have happened. Joergen, you're selectively hearing the voices that confirm your opinion: there are several archaeologists claiming to have found evidence supporting the Exodus story. You may claim, "but they're religious and biased!" Well and true. However, same goes for this Egyptian head of archaeology: had he found something that confirmed the Exodus story, he would not only have invalidated his Islamic beliefs, but would have dirtied his Egyptian nationality, and probably would've lost his job as chief archaeologist of Egypt. What makes you believe him and not other archaeologists?
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Passover: Do this in remembrance of Me The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
Judah Himango wrote:
there are several archaeologists claiming to have found evidence supporting the Exodus story. You may claim, "but they're religious and biased!"
I don't. The exodus may very well have happened - I don't dispute that at all. It's just that I don't believe there was anything divine about it. Stories from the past have always been "buffed up" a little. It's like old fishermen talking about their catch. At the end of the day, the 4 inch fish have grown into a 2 feet barracuda. Imagine what 2-3000 years can do!! ;)
Judah Himango wrote:
What makes you believe him and not other archaeologists?
I never said I believed him. :~ I just reacted to what was said here on this forum board.
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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The whole exodus story is accepted by Christians; all of Jewish Scripture is included in the Christian Bible. It is not accepted by Muslims.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Passover: Do this in remembrance of Me The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
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Kinda:
10:90 And We brought the Children of Israel across the sea, and Pharaoh with his hosts pursued them in rebellion and transgression, till, when the (fate of) drowning overtook him, he exclaimed: I believe that there is no God save Him in Whom the Children of Israel believe, and I am of those who surrender (unto Him).
Looks like Pharaoh became a Hanif.
10:93 And We verily did allot unto the Children of Israel a fixed abode, and did provide them with good things; and they differed not until the knowledge came unto them. Lo! thy Lord will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that wherein they used to differ.
Tell that to Hamas.
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Judah Himango wrote:
I'm not an archaeologist. If I were, I probably wouldn't find things supporting Islam.
Then you'd be a lousy archaeologist. ;)
Judah Himango wrote:
Likewise, I don't expect...
Is this your faith talking or do you know that he is letting bias effect him?
"If you drink, don't drive. Don't even putt." - Dean Martin
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Then you'd be a lousy archaeologist. ;)
I wonder just how many people do pure archaeology, not driven by politics, religion, or lack of religion.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Is this your faith talking or do you know that he is letting bias effect him?
Mike, are you claiming he's Jewish? :laugh: Whether Islamic or atheist, either is likely (although being an atheist in Egypt isn't an attractive proposition!), either way I don't expect him to find evidence that would put Egyptians or Islam in a bad light, and would certainly never find something promoting the Jewish religion! Doing so would mean he'd almost certainly lose his job. You think his findings are credible, Mike?
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Passover: Do this in remembrance of Me The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
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From which Caribbean-based college did that "doctor" get his PhD?
Red Stateler wrote:
From which Caribbean-based college did that "doctor" get his PhD?
It's not a problem, just do what you did when it was proved that Genesis wasn't a literal account. You know, put less importance on that part. Move on - the Bible has lots of other pages!
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I don't remember who said that here, but it was something like: If atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby. And, btw, if an atheist agrees on something with someone that is not an atheist, it does not mean that atheism is a religion.
----- Formerly MP(2)