Dear rest of the world
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peterchen wrote:
You have crazies slaughtering your children, but nah, everyone must get a gun otherwise the gubment would raise taxes.
The Gubment does raise taxes. So obviously that's not the motivation. It's more like, "we're being taxed / regulated to death - we should at least get guns!" :rolleyes: Personally, i think it's sort of a symbolic thing, like a king's scepter. At some point though, the king became a figurehead, and the impotent former ruler looked sadly at the thing in his hand and began to methodically bash his head in.
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It appears that everybody is under the impression that I approve of the documentation. You probably also blame Ken Burns for supporting slavery.
--Raymond Chen on MSDN
Shog9 wrote:
Personally, i think it's sort of a symbolic thing, like a king's scepter.
It looks like, but still.
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighist -
Christian Graus wrote:
it is also true that the US gun culture is *insane*.
I disagree, I believe the problem, if you want to generalize, a a total lack of respect for life.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.
Like I said, the problem is more than just guns. Or, are you saying that this disrespect for life is worldwide, but only Americans have guns to act on it ? Like I said, Canadians have guns without the slaughter. But, yes, obviously if there was respect for life, the guns wouldn't make a difference to the equation.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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It is true that there's more to the problem that guns, Canadians are armed without killing each other at the rate Americans do, but, by the same token, it is also true that the US gun culture is *insane*.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
But what is that "culture? The idea that guns solve problems? That guns are fun?
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighist -
Christian Graus wrote:
Or, a common sense reading of the constitution will prevail.
it has.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.
When did this occur ? So, "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." is now recognised to be ridiculous in a day and age where a 'well regulated militia' is a foolish notion ? Or, are gun nuts continuing to cling to an outdated view of the world in order to defend their insanity ? 'I got me a rifle, no-one will ever invade the USA while I've got this here rifle'
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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But what is that "culture? The idea that guns solve problems? That guns are fun?
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighistJust the idea that they have the right to a gun, and that a gun protects their freedom.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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Christian Graus wrote:
it is also true that the US gun culture is *insane*.
I disagree, I believe the problem, if you want to generalize, a a total lack of respect for life.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
I believe the problem, if you want to generalize, a a total lack of respect for life.
That would surely do, but it sounds awfully close to "this world would be a better place if we'd just leanr to love each other". Not that i have a problem with that, but it's not youe usual argument :)
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighist -
It is true that there's more to the problem that guns, Canadians are armed without killing each other at the rate Americans do, but, by the same token, it is also true that the US gun culture is *insane*.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
I'm not sure which "gun culture" you are referring to. We had a shooting here in Salt Lake City a while ago. It ended when an armed, off-duty policeman pulled his weapon and challenged the shooter. My dad taught me to shoot a rifle when I was ten. I hold a concealed-carry permit, although I don't own a weapon at the moment. At the last place I worked at least three people were known to be armed at all times, and I suspect that there were others among the sixteen employees who weren't saying. Statistically, in places where a person has to consider the possibility that the other guy may be carrying, the level of crime goes down. That's one gun culture. Then there is the culture my son-in-law lives in. I believe he owns a pistol, but I've never seen him carrying. There was a time when the only meat his family ate was what he killed. He's more prosperous now, but part of his prosperity comes through the many friends he has made over the years from hunting and fishing (he's a saleman). He is welcome on every farm within fifty miles (or more) of where he lives, even the ones that are posted. Again, there is the culture of New York City (for example), where the man who defends himself with a gun is the criminal (vide Goetz), and the criminals are the victims. Is that a problem with guns, or a weird inversion of right and wrong? I understand that it's even worse in England. Once more. I used to live in Dayton, OH, where many of my friends were from Kentucky. One of them told me of an interesting custome back home: When the whiskey comes out, the women go around the room collecting all the guns. They have some great fights, but no one gets killed. Again. When I was in high school we used to go to a little place northwest of New York City to go square dancing. The people in those hills had been living in isolation since the Revolution. Our dancing was ended when some flatlander game warden got himself killed trying to arrest someone for taking deer out of season. They never found the killer (I don't think they really tried very hard). The next time we went to the Eagle Valley Rest we were the only two couples in the place. We didn't feel welcome, though we had been before, and we never went back. Now, which gun culture were you talking about? The one where people are comfortable with guns and live with them day to day, or the one where people are terrified of them and have no idea how to behave when some nut starts waving one around? JimT
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Like I said, the problem is more than just guns. Or, are you saying that this disrespect for life is worldwide, but only Americans have guns to act on it ? Like I said, Canadians have guns without the slaughter. But, yes, obviously if there was respect for life, the guns wouldn't make a difference to the equation.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
are you saying that this disrespect for life is worldwide, but only Americans have guns to act on it ?
Americans have guns French have heat and disaffected youth with matches Muslims have bombs What we have in America is still a young country, young culture and a decidly violent society. With that said, realize that we have in excess of 45,000 deaths per year owing to automobiles, but we don't outlaw automobiles nor would we put up with outlawing firearms.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.
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When did this occur ? So, "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." is now recognised to be ridiculous in a day and age where a 'well regulated militia' is a foolish notion ? Or, are gun nuts continuing to cling to an outdated view of the world in order to defend their insanity ? 'I got me a rifle, no-one will ever invade the USA while I've got this here rifle'
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
'I got me a rifle, no-one will ever invade the USA while I've got this here rifle'
oh horseshit, it has very little to do with invasion otherwise we'd be shooting illegals all fucking day long. the basic premise is and always has been to protect against an oppressive government.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.
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Christian Graus wrote:
are you saying that this disrespect for life is worldwide, but only Americans have guns to act on it ?
Americans have guns French have heat and disaffected youth with matches Muslims have bombs What we have in America is still a young country, young culture and a decidly violent society. With that said, realize that we have in excess of 45,000 deaths per year owing to automobiles, but we don't outlaw automobiles nor would we put up with outlawing firearms.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
With that said, realize that we have in excess of 45,000 deaths per year owing to automobiles, but we don't outlaw automobiles nor would we put up with outlawing firearms
And that is the problem. You don't *need* guns. You will never be called upon to grab your guns and form a militia. You only need guns to defend yourself, because your society is full of guns. If automobiles served no valid purpose, then it would make sense to outlaw them, based on those statistics.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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Just the idea that they have the right to a gun, and that a gun protects their freedom.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
Just the idea that they have the right to a gun, and that a gun protects their freedom.
yep.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.
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Christian Graus wrote:
'I got me a rifle, no-one will ever invade the USA while I've got this here rifle'
oh horseshit, it has very little to do with invasion otherwise we'd be shooting illegals all fucking day long. the basic premise is and always has been to protect against an oppressive government.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
oh horseshit, it has very little to do with invasion otherwise we'd be shooting illegals all f****ing day long
Well, that is what the wording of the constitution implies
Mike Gaskey wrote:
the basic premise is and always has been to protect against an oppressive government.
And that is just bloody stupid. In the first place, assuming your government DID decide to oppress you in a way that you needed your gun, do you think it would be a match for the weapons they have to bear ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
oh horseshit, it has very little to do with invasion otherwise we'd be shooting illegals all f****ing day long
Well, that is what the wording of the constitution implies
Mike Gaskey wrote:
the basic premise is and always has been to protect against an oppressive government.
And that is just bloody stupid. In the first place, assuming your government DID decide to oppress you in a way that you needed your gun, do you think it would be a match for the weapons they have to bear ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
And that is just bloody stupid
your opinion.
Christian Graus wrote:
In the first place, assuming your government DID decide to oppress you in a way that you needed your gun, do you think it would be a match for the weapons they have to bear ?
yes. and by the way that is one of the reason organizations like the NRA fight / lobby against assualt weapons bans. for the record, there are for more armed citizens than there are armed police. the sheer numbers plus the unwillingness for cops to open up on their friends an neighbors means it really doesn't matter what arms the government brings to the party, should there ever be one.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
With that said, realize that we have in excess of 45,000 deaths per year owing to automobiles, but we don't outlaw automobiles nor would we put up with outlawing firearms
And that is the problem. You don't *need* guns. You will never be called upon to grab your guns and form a militia. You only need guns to defend yourself, because your society is full of guns. If automobiles served no valid purpose, then it would make sense to outlaw them, based on those statistics.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
You don't *need* guns.
it isn't a matter of need, it is a matter of rights. referencing the other portin of this thread, I would personally fear living in a society where only the government is armed - absolute power, etc.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
I believe the problem, if you want to generalize, a a total lack of respect for life.
That would surely do, but it sounds awfully close to "this world would be a better place if we'd just leanr to love each other". Not that i have a problem with that, but it's not youe usual argument :)
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighistpeterchen wrote:
Not that i have a problem with that, but it's not youe usual argument
I know, weird. I came to this point after trading posts with Shog the other day. Quite an eye opener.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.
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Christian Graus wrote:
And that is just bloody stupid
your opinion.
Christian Graus wrote:
In the first place, assuming your government DID decide to oppress you in a way that you needed your gun, do you think it would be a match for the weapons they have to bear ?
yes. and by the way that is one of the reason organizations like the NRA fight / lobby against assualt weapons bans. for the record, there are for more armed citizens than there are armed police. the sheer numbers plus the unwillingness for cops to open up on their friends an neighbors means it really doesn't matter what arms the government brings to the party, should there ever be one.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
your opinion.
Common sense.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
and by the way that is one of the reason organizations like the NRA fight / lobby against assualt weapons bans
I'm sure it is.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
for the record, there are for more armed citizens than there are armed police. the sheer numbers plus the unwillingness for cops to open up on their friends an neighbors means it really doesn't matter what arms the government brings to the party, should there ever be one.
This is really my point. The unwillingness of the police is really the issue. But, I'm not talking about the police, I'm talking about the *army*. They have big ass guns and all sorts of toys that the guy with the beer belly who has an assault rifle because it's his right has no chance of standing up to. Again, I see no way the government could turn the army on it's own, and that is your protection. But, if they did, you wouldn't stand a chance in hell.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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Christian Graus wrote:
You don't *need* guns.
it isn't a matter of need, it is a matter of rights. referencing the other portin of this thread, I would personally fear living in a society where only the government is armed - absolute power, etc.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.
That's exactly the kind of paranoia I am talking about. But, I realise you're raised with it, that's why it's ingrained. People who live in such a situation, appreciate the value of parlimentary systems that don't lend themselves to abuse, and the fallacy of attacking the goverment with guns.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
your opinion.
Common sense.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
and by the way that is one of the reason organizations like the NRA fight / lobby against assualt weapons bans
I'm sure it is.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
for the record, there are for more armed citizens than there are armed police. the sheer numbers plus the unwillingness for cops to open up on their friends an neighbors means it really doesn't matter what arms the government brings to the party, should there ever be one.
This is really my point. The unwillingness of the police is really the issue. But, I'm not talking about the police, I'm talking about the *army*. They have big ass guns and all sorts of toys that the guy with the beer belly who has an assault rifle because it's his right has no chance of standing up to. Again, I see no way the government could turn the army on it's own, and that is your protection. But, if they did, you wouldn't stand a chance in hell.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
And there are way more guns in the US than in Iraq. How is all that firepower helping them there?
I'm pretty sure I would not like to live in a world in which I would never be offended. I am absolutely certain I don't want to live in a world in which you would never be offended. Dave
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
your opinion.
Common sense.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
and by the way that is one of the reason organizations like the NRA fight / lobby against assualt weapons bans
I'm sure it is.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
for the record, there are for more armed citizens than there are armed police. the sheer numbers plus the unwillingness for cops to open up on their friends an neighbors means it really doesn't matter what arms the government brings to the party, should there ever be one.
This is really my point. The unwillingness of the police is really the issue. But, I'm not talking about the police, I'm talking about the *army*. They have big ass guns and all sorts of toys that the guy with the beer belly who has an assault rifle because it's his right has no chance of standing up to. Again, I see no way the government could turn the army on it's own, and that is your protection. But, if they did, you wouldn't stand a chance in hell.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
They have big ass guns and all sorts of toys that the guy with the beer belly who has an assault rifle because it's his right has no chance of standing up to.
If the Iraqi's can still give them a run for their money then perhaps good ol' Billy-Joe-John does have a chance
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I'm not sure which "gun culture" you are referring to. We had a shooting here in Salt Lake City a while ago. It ended when an armed, off-duty policeman pulled his weapon and challenged the shooter. My dad taught me to shoot a rifle when I was ten. I hold a concealed-carry permit, although I don't own a weapon at the moment. At the last place I worked at least three people were known to be armed at all times, and I suspect that there were others among the sixteen employees who weren't saying. Statistically, in places where a person has to consider the possibility that the other guy may be carrying, the level of crime goes down. That's one gun culture. Then there is the culture my son-in-law lives in. I believe he owns a pistol, but I've never seen him carrying. There was a time when the only meat his family ate was what he killed. He's more prosperous now, but part of his prosperity comes through the many friends he has made over the years from hunting and fishing (he's a saleman). He is welcome on every farm within fifty miles (or more) of where he lives, even the ones that are posted. Again, there is the culture of New York City (for example), where the man who defends himself with a gun is the criminal (vide Goetz), and the criminals are the victims. Is that a problem with guns, or a weird inversion of right and wrong? I understand that it's even worse in England. Once more. I used to live in Dayton, OH, where many of my friends were from Kentucky. One of them told me of an interesting custome back home: When the whiskey comes out, the women go around the room collecting all the guns. They have some great fights, but no one gets killed. Again. When I was in high school we used to go to a little place northwest of New York City to go square dancing. The people in those hills had been living in isolation since the Revolution. Our dancing was ended when some flatlander game warden got himself killed trying to arrest someone for taking deer out of season. They never found the killer (I don't think they really tried very hard). The next time we went to the Eagle Valley Rest we were the only two couples in the place. We didn't feel welcome, though we had been before, and we never went back. Now, which gun culture were you talking about? The one where people are comfortable with guns and live with them day to day, or the one where people are terrified of them and have no idea how to behave when some nut starts waving one around? JimT
jim_taylor wrote:
I'm not sure which "gun culture" you are referring to.
Read Mike's posts :-) You know, I spend a lot of time around farmers, I don't have the idea that everyone who has a gun, is a nut. It *is* clear that, in the US, it's easier for a nut to get a gun.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
