Dear rest of the world
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Christian Graus wrote:
You don't *need* guns.
it isn't a matter of need, it is a matter of rights. referencing the other portin of this thread, I would personally fear living in a society where only the government is armed - absolute power, etc.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.
That's exactly the kind of paranoia I am talking about. But, I realise you're raised with it, that's why it's ingrained. People who live in such a situation, appreciate the value of parlimentary systems that don't lend themselves to abuse, and the fallacy of attacking the goverment with guns.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
your opinion.
Common sense.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
and by the way that is one of the reason organizations like the NRA fight / lobby against assualt weapons bans
I'm sure it is.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
for the record, there are for more armed citizens than there are armed police. the sheer numbers plus the unwillingness for cops to open up on their friends an neighbors means it really doesn't matter what arms the government brings to the party, should there ever be one.
This is really my point. The unwillingness of the police is really the issue. But, I'm not talking about the police, I'm talking about the *army*. They have big ass guns and all sorts of toys that the guy with the beer belly who has an assault rifle because it's his right has no chance of standing up to. Again, I see no way the government could turn the army on it's own, and that is your protection. But, if they did, you wouldn't stand a chance in hell.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
And there are way more guns in the US than in Iraq. How is all that firepower helping them there?
I'm pretty sure I would not like to live in a world in which I would never be offended. I am absolutely certain I don't want to live in a world in which you would never be offended. Dave
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
your opinion.
Common sense.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
and by the way that is one of the reason organizations like the NRA fight / lobby against assualt weapons bans
I'm sure it is.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
for the record, there are for more armed citizens than there are armed police. the sheer numbers plus the unwillingness for cops to open up on their friends an neighbors means it really doesn't matter what arms the government brings to the party, should there ever be one.
This is really my point. The unwillingness of the police is really the issue. But, I'm not talking about the police, I'm talking about the *army*. They have big ass guns and all sorts of toys that the guy with the beer belly who has an assault rifle because it's his right has no chance of standing up to. Again, I see no way the government could turn the army on it's own, and that is your protection. But, if they did, you wouldn't stand a chance in hell.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
They have big ass guns and all sorts of toys that the guy with the beer belly who has an assault rifle because it's his right has no chance of standing up to.
If the Iraqi's can still give them a run for their money then perhaps good ol' Billy-Joe-John does have a chance
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I'm not sure which "gun culture" you are referring to. We had a shooting here in Salt Lake City a while ago. It ended when an armed, off-duty policeman pulled his weapon and challenged the shooter. My dad taught me to shoot a rifle when I was ten. I hold a concealed-carry permit, although I don't own a weapon at the moment. At the last place I worked at least three people were known to be armed at all times, and I suspect that there were others among the sixteen employees who weren't saying. Statistically, in places where a person has to consider the possibility that the other guy may be carrying, the level of crime goes down. That's one gun culture. Then there is the culture my son-in-law lives in. I believe he owns a pistol, but I've never seen him carrying. There was a time when the only meat his family ate was what he killed. He's more prosperous now, but part of his prosperity comes through the many friends he has made over the years from hunting and fishing (he's a saleman). He is welcome on every farm within fifty miles (or more) of where he lives, even the ones that are posted. Again, there is the culture of New York City (for example), where the man who defends himself with a gun is the criminal (vide Goetz), and the criminals are the victims. Is that a problem with guns, or a weird inversion of right and wrong? I understand that it's even worse in England. Once more. I used to live in Dayton, OH, where many of my friends were from Kentucky. One of them told me of an interesting custome back home: When the whiskey comes out, the women go around the room collecting all the guns. They have some great fights, but no one gets killed. Again. When I was in high school we used to go to a little place northwest of New York City to go square dancing. The people in those hills had been living in isolation since the Revolution. Our dancing was ended when some flatlander game warden got himself killed trying to arrest someone for taking deer out of season. They never found the killer (I don't think they really tried very hard). The next time we went to the Eagle Valley Rest we were the only two couples in the place. We didn't feel welcome, though we had been before, and we never went back. Now, which gun culture were you talking about? The one where people are comfortable with guns and live with them day to day, or the one where people are terrified of them and have no idea how to behave when some nut starts waving one around? JimT
jim_taylor wrote:
I'm not sure which "gun culture" you are referring to.
Read Mike's posts :-) You know, I spend a lot of time around farmers, I don't have the idea that everyone who has a gun, is a nut. It *is* clear that, in the US, it's easier for a nut to get a gun.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
your opinion.
Common sense.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
and by the way that is one of the reason organizations like the NRA fight / lobby against assualt weapons bans
I'm sure it is.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
for the record, there are for more armed citizens than there are armed police. the sheer numbers plus the unwillingness for cops to open up on their friends an neighbors means it really doesn't matter what arms the government brings to the party, should there ever be one.
This is really my point. The unwillingness of the police is really the issue. But, I'm not talking about the police, I'm talking about the *army*. They have big ass guns and all sorts of toys that the guy with the beer belly who has an assault rifle because it's his right has no chance of standing up to. Again, I see no way the government could turn the army on it's own, and that is your protection. But, if they did, you wouldn't stand a chance in hell.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
Again, I see no way the government could turn the army on it's own, and that is your protection. But, if they did, you wouldn't stand a chance in hell.
there is a subtle difference between someone standing up and a cow that can be herded. the point being that my "brother" in either the army or the police force might not have a difficult time (mentally I mean) herding me onto a train if there were no way me or mine could object. if however me and mine put our hands in our jackets my "brother" would certainly reconsider. by the way, it is a lost cause. the concept is so heavily ingrained in a significant portion if not a majority of Americans that it is impossible to shake it.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.
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Christian Graus wrote:
They have big ass guns and all sorts of toys that the guy with the beer belly who has an assault rifle because it's his right has no chance of standing up to.
If the Iraqi's can still give them a run for their money then perhaps good ol' Billy-Joe-John does have a chance
Josh Gray wrote:
Billy-Joe-John
you have it wrong, it is: Billy Bob, Joe Bob, John Bob. You also forgot about Bubba.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.
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Josh Gray wrote:
Billy-Joe-John
you have it wrong, it is: Billy Bob, Joe Bob, John Bob. You also forgot about Bubba.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.
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That's exactly the kind of paranoia I am talking about. But, I realise you're raised with it, that's why it's ingrained. People who live in such a situation, appreciate the value of parlimentary systems that don't lend themselves to abuse, and the fallacy of attacking the goverment with guns.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
That's exactly the kind of paranoia I am talking about
at the risk of dragging out an old joke, being paranoid doesn't eliminate the possibility that someone is out there.
Christian Graus wrote:
But, I realise you're raised with it, that's why it's ingrained.
yes. I believe it goes all the way back to the Revolution against British rule.
Christian Graus wrote:
People who live in such a situation, appreciate the value of parlimentary systems
I'm not sure why that makes a difference unless "you" can call for new elections because of lack of confidence in the current government and we have to wait for the next election cycle to change ours. Did I miss something?
Christian Graus wrote:
the fallacy of attacking the goverment with guns.
it is not a fallacy and it is not a matter of attacking anything, it is protecting against.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.
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Christian Graus wrote:
Again, I see no way the government could turn the army on it's own, and that is your protection. But, if they did, you wouldn't stand a chance in hell.
there is a subtle difference between someone standing up and a cow that can be herded. the point being that my "brother" in either the army or the police force might not have a difficult time (mentally I mean) herding me onto a train if there were no way me or mine could object. if however me and mine put our hands in our jackets my "brother" would certainly reconsider. by the way, it is a lost cause. the concept is so heavily ingrained in a significant portion if not a majority of Americans that it is impossible to shake it.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
by the way, it is a lost cause. the concept is so heavily ingrained in a significant portion if not a majority of Americans that it is impossible to shake it.
I understand the nature of the brainwashing involved. And, for the record, I love the US. I have spent at least 4 months ( I'm not sure of the exact figure ), living and travelling there, and I have long term plans to at least own a summer home in Oregon.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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oilFactotum wrote:
They didn't, so why do you even bring it up? Oh, I get it. You R's are just poor helpless victims of the evil leftist conspiracy.
if you actually read the article you would have seen the reference.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.
Yes, a reference that it didn't happen. So why bring it up?
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It's perfectly understandable. The French have no guns so no one gets shot. The just have their cars set on fire, and then they get stabbed to death when they onject. Seems perfectly reasonble to me - from a French point of view. JimT
How bizarre! You sound like you are proud that we have a per-capita murder rate that is 3 times that of France.
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peterchen wrote:
You have crazies slaughtering your children, but nah, everyone must get a gun otherwise the gubment would raise taxes.
The Gubment does raise taxes. So obviously that's not the motivation. It's more like, "we're being taxed / regulated to death - we should at least get guns!" :rolleyes: Personally, i think it's sort of a symbolic thing, like a king's scepter. At some point though, the king became a figurehead, and the impotent former ruler looked sadly at the thing in his hand and began to methodically bash his head in.
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It appears that everybody is under the impression that I approve of the documentation. You probably also blame Ken Burns for supporting slavery.
--Raymond Chen on MSDN
Shog9 wrote:
the impotent former ruler looked sadly at the thing in his hand
Now when we quote it bit ouf of the context... :rolleyes: Slow day in the office. Very very slow.
"Throughout human history, we have been dependent on machines to survive. Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony. " - Morpheus "Real men use mspaint for writing code and notepad for designing graphics." - Anna-Jayne Metcalfe
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
oh horseshit, it has very little to do with invasion otherwise we'd be shooting illegals all f****ing day long
Well, that is what the wording of the constitution implies
Mike Gaskey wrote:
the basic premise is and always has been to protect against an oppressive government.
And that is just bloody stupid. In the first place, assuming your government DID decide to oppress you in a way that you needed your gun, do you think it would be a match for the weapons they have to bear ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
And that is just bloody stupid. In the first place, assuming your government DID decide to oppress you in a way that you needed your gun, do you think it would be a match for the weapons they have to bear ?
You've seen the way the military acts in Iraq. They would have the same problems here (if not more so). Their weapons are of no concern.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Mike Gaskey wrote:
by the way, it is a lost cause. the concept is so heavily ingrained in a significant portion if not a majority of Americans that it is impossible to shake it.
I understand the nature of the brainwashing involved. And, for the record, I love the US. I have spent at least 4 months ( I'm not sure of the exact figure ), living and travelling there, and I have long term plans to at least own a summer home in Oregon.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
I have long term plans to at least own a summer home in Oregon.
beaautiful country. my oldest son lived near there, Washington State, for a couple of years.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.
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We just don't get it, ok? You have crazies slaughtering your children, but nah, everyone must get a gun otherwise the gubment would raise taxes. :sigh:
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighistWho cares about the children.
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How bizarre! You sound like you are proud that we have a per-capita murder rate that is 3 times that of France.
I'm not sure how you get that from what I wrote. The US has a higher frequency of murder. That's a data point. France has a higher frequency of anti-semitic violence. That's another data point. As far as I can tell, neither is something to be proud of. We're different, that's all. No country is perfect. I'd rather live here. If you would rather live in France, feel free. JimT
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jim_taylor wrote:
I'm not sure which "gun culture" you are referring to.
Read Mike's posts :-) You know, I spend a lot of time around farmers, I don't have the idea that everyone who has a gun, is a nut. It *is* clear that, in the US, it's easier for a nut to get a gun.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
I read Mike's posts. I am reminded that you don't tug on Superman's cape. Fox Butterfield wrote a piece in the New York Times some time ago about "Why The South's Murder Rate Is So High." It has to do with the concept of respect and what constitutes an insult. All this is by way of saying that there are two aspects of the "gun culture." The first is the resistance to systematic oppression, either by the government or by some other oppressor, such as the brownshirts, the klan, the bolivarian circles, or whatever. You and Mike seem to be talking mostly about that one. The second is the aspect of personal empowerment. Out here in the west it is expected that a real man can handle any situation that may come up, whether it's a rattlesnake, a drought, or a bully. "Be not afraid of any man/ No matter what his size/ Just call on me in time of need/ And I will equalize." A small man can cope with most of life's viccissitudes as well as a large one. If he has an equalizer on his hip he can cope with large men, too. So people tend to be a little more careful in how they treat one another. This second culture is bimodal. In the South and among black youth, it leads to a high murder rate. It the West, it leads to greater restraint. JimT
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
With that said, realize that we have in excess of 45,000 deaths per year owing to automobiles, but we don't outlaw automobiles nor would we put up with outlawing firearms
And that is the problem. You don't *need* guns. You will never be called upon to grab your guns and form a militia. You only need guns to defend yourself, because your society is full of guns. If automobiles served no valid purpose, then it would make sense to outlaw them, based on those statistics.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
And that is the problem. You don't *need* guns.
Really ? Guns are kinda like parachutes or life preservers- you will probably never ever need one but if you do there is nothing that can substitute for it. Think about 2 twenty year old punks robbing some elderly couples home . If the homeowner has a nuce little .357 he can protect his property and his life - if not he gets beat or stabbed to death and the punks go on their merry way. Nope - I "need" my gun. Mess with me or mine at your own peril. Richard
Suppose you were an idiot... And suppose you were a member of Congress... But I repeat myself. --Mark Twain
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Who cares about the children.
Everyone who sens his own to school every day, I guess.
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighist
