Just once I'd like to see a movie...
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My only positive experience is a few weeks ago when a Mexican immigrant helped me to load top soil bags into the trunk of my car. In this area, they are incredibily far from polite.
__________________ Bob is my homeboy.
So that makes two nice Mexicans in the world (I am the other :-D)
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix Chihuahua, Mexico
Not much here: My CP Blog!
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I couldn't agree more. One of the things I don't miss about living in Texas is the fact that in general practice there, the word Mexican is not a statement of nationality but rather a racial slur equal in every way to one that I refuse to use ragarding people of African ancestry. Because of my years growing up in that environment, to this day I still can't use the word Mexican without feeling like I've just uttered an insult. To be sure, there are cultural differences in every part of the planet. I believe the key to better interaction begins with understanding what an action means in the context of that person's culture rather than the way you perceive it in your own. A great many conflicts could be avoided were this common practice, as people would realize that no offense was intended, and therefore none would be taken. That said, this is Earth, and the simple fact of the matter is that some people are just jerks and have no desire to be otherwise, as in the case of the movie patrons. It doesn't matter what their culture is. Some folks just don't know how to act. However, I think it's important to understand that this is an individual distinction, not a group one. To overlook that distinction lessens us all.
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
Christopher Duncan wrote:
I think it's important to understand that this is an individual distinction, not a group one. To overlook that distinction lessens us all.
And that was exactly my point. I understood her post basically as "because of those Mexicans in the theather, all Mexicans are like that and I hate them even more." I am the first to accept that there are inconsiderate Mexicans (but also Americans, French....) but just because of a couple doesn't make all of them like that.
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix Chihuahua, Mexico
Not much here: My CP Blog!
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Uh, actually I am part Native American (Iriquois) so....nah nah nah nah! :-D
__________________ Bob is my homeboy.
Excellent! I was hoping that someone would make this point. :) America is a collection of continents, but of course what most people mean by American is "United States of American." With that in mind, I'll say something that I know goes against current politically correct terminolgies. There's no such thing as a Native American. Native American is a relatively newly contrived term, used solely to consolidate a group of people and derive political power from the grouping. The people who lived here and were ultimately conquered by European invaders were absolutely, positively not the first "United States of Americans" and hence aren't "Native Americans." In fact, not only were they not the first Americans, they wanted nothing to do with America other than us getting the heck off of their land. Consequently, I object to the term Native American for a couple of reasons. First, it implies that they were co-founders of the very nation that screwed them, which just doesn't make any sense. Secondly, it robs them of their true national identity. To lump all "Native Americans" together is an insult and a racial slur no different than the incorrectly assumed "Indian." These people are not Native American. They are Cherokee, Apache, Comanche and decendants of many other of the countless great nations who once occupied this land. Including the Iriquois nation. :) Today, with the exception of those who choose to live on the sovereign lands of reservations, they are first and foremost American citizens, and like all other Americans, they ultimately are from somewhere else. My ancestors were from European nations. Your ancestors were from the Iriquois nation. So, like I said, everyone here is from somewhere else. :-D
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
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Uh, actually I am part Native American (Iriquois) so....nah nah nah nah! :-D
__________________ Bob is my homeboy.
leckey wrote:
actually I am part Native American
so are many people.... Cherokee and Sioux here, but only in the negligible percentages. The point was that it is behavior, not nationality. Locals here have issues as well, I used to go to the movies so often it was pretty clear that no one nationality was to blame.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Just so you know, many Mexicans are just as prejudiced as you are. I know, I have Mexican family members who come from the upper class. They say very hateful things about poor Mexicans and treat them horribly when they are forced to deal with them. That being said, I worked my way up from poverty on construction crews while learning how to code in my own time. I would trade the work ethic of most privileged people I work with now for the ethic of those poor Mexicans I came up with. As for telling you to shut up... Isn't that what you were doing to them? Different understandings of acceptable behavior breed situations like this. I guarantee you they weren't doing it just to make you mad. It probably didn't cross their minds that you cared. But there are plenty of better sites for you to post this message on. Google neo-con and you will be off and running. Regards.
ushering wrote:
I would trade the work ethic of most privileged people I work with now for the ethic of those poor Mexicans I came up with.
So true. I bet most Mexicans immigrants are very hard-working, because they have made many sacrifices (leaving their family behind for example) to go to the US in search of a better life. Being poor doesn't make them less as persons, and doesn't mean they have no education or are impolite. The people leckey saw on the movie theather are just an exception rather than the rule.
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix Chihuahua, Mexico
Not much here: My CP Blog!
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Growing up in South Dakota, which is behind the times in many ways, I found that many native South Dakota'ns are very much concerned with consideration and making your neighbors feel welcomed. Where I used to live we had the occasional stupid person (one with a laser pen for example) at the movie theater, but always after one request the person stopped the action. I just can't believe how here people think they are entitled to do whatever they feel like without the consideration of others.
__________________ Bob is my homeboy.
I was a little concerned about your earlier posts because of the blanket racial statements, but your comments about native South Dakota residents is reassuring about your acceptance of non-white people. I too have had many positive interactions with Native Americans, and I am glad the Natives of South Dakota provided you with positive social interactions. Regards.
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So that makes two nice Mexicans in the world (I am the other :-D)
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix Chihuahua, Mexico
Not much here: My CP Blog!
That's only because you're from Chihuahua. And as we all know, anything having to do with Chihuahuas (whether geographic or canine) is, by definition, inherently cool. :-D
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
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Uh, actually I am part Native American (Iriquois) so....nah nah nah nah! :-D
__________________ Bob is my homeboy.
And by the way, since my ancestors screwed your ancestors (not to mention the fact that "Indians" have suffered as many racial slurs as Africans and Mexicans), I figure I've got the "nah nah nah nah" coming, and offer you a 5 in return. :-D
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
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Excellent! I was hoping that someone would make this point. :) America is a collection of continents, but of course what most people mean by American is "United States of American." With that in mind, I'll say something that I know goes against current politically correct terminolgies. There's no such thing as a Native American. Native American is a relatively newly contrived term, used solely to consolidate a group of people and derive political power from the grouping. The people who lived here and were ultimately conquered by European invaders were absolutely, positively not the first "United States of Americans" and hence aren't "Native Americans." In fact, not only were they not the first Americans, they wanted nothing to do with America other than us getting the heck off of their land. Consequently, I object to the term Native American for a couple of reasons. First, it implies that they were co-founders of the very nation that screwed them, which just doesn't make any sense. Secondly, it robs them of their true national identity. To lump all "Native Americans" together is an insult and a racial slur no different than the incorrectly assumed "Indian." These people are not Native American. They are Cherokee, Apache, Comanche and decendants of many other of the countless great nations who once occupied this land. Including the Iriquois nation. :) Today, with the exception of those who choose to live on the sovereign lands of reservations, they are first and foremost American citizens, and like all other Americans, they ultimately are from somewhere else. My ancestors were from European nations. Your ancestors were from the Iriquois nation. So, like I said, everyone here is from somewhere else. :-D
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
Christopher Duncan wrote:
These people are not Native American.
Very true, in fact you even have to watch the tribal references. Most tribal names stem from the names that another tribe called them, but that tribe talked to "Americans" first. So instead of what they call themselves, they are often called something else. The local example is probably Navajo, who call themselves the Diné. Navajo is actually the name given from the Tewa Pueblo Peoples. Depending on who you ask, and what mood they are in they will tell you means theives (takers of the fields), or idiots (farmers of washes/arroyos). Navajo by any meaning was meant and used as an insult by the Pueblo peoples. Most Nations names for themselves are simply "the people". When referring collectively to the many nations, they prefer just that "the Nations". Thus, the Gathering of Nations being an annual event.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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So that makes two nice Mexicans in the world (I am the other :-D)
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix Chihuahua, Mexico
Not much here: My CP Blog!
Luis Alonso Ramos wrote:
So that makes two nice Mexicans in the world
I know quite a few more too. :)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Uh, actually I am part Native American (Iriquois) so....nah nah nah nah! :-D
__________________ Bob is my homeboy.
And actually, many Mexicans are part European, which is also a big dividing line in Mexican culture. There are numerous distinct racial groups contained within the current boundaries of the country. As for the Iriquois part... Which tribe? Are you 'Cayuga,' 'Mohawk,' 'Oneida,' 'Onodaga,' 'Seneca,' or 'just made it up so I could support my arguement with nah nah nah nah?' Regards.
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ushering wrote:
I would trade the work ethic of most privileged people I work with now for the ethic of those poor Mexicans I came up with.
So true. I bet most Mexicans immigrants are very hard-working, because they have made many sacrifices (leaving their family behind for example) to go to the US in search of a better life. Being poor doesn't make them less as persons, and doesn't mean they have no education or are impolite. The people leckey saw on the movie theather are just an exception rather than the rule.
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix Chihuahua, Mexico
Not much here: My CP Blog!
I don't know much about the history of Mexico, but since the entire lifeblood of my own nation is founded on the efforts and work ethic of immigrants who came here to bring their dreams to life, I'd have to say that in general, immigrants rock. Without them, there would be no America. However, I think a point often lost on immigrants to any country is the importance of understanding and integrating the culture of your new home into your daily interactions. I can't imagine moving to, say, Japan and not spending a lot of time educating myself on what's important in Japanese culture and society. Heaven knows that countless Americans have embarrassed us all by traveling around the world and ignoring this most fundamental requirement of accepting the hospitality of others - respect and gratitude.
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
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And actually, many Mexicans are part European, which is also a big dividing line in Mexican culture. There are numerous distinct racial groups contained within the current boundaries of the country. As for the Iriquois part... Which tribe? Are you 'Cayuga,' 'Mohawk,' 'Oneida,' 'Onodaga,' 'Seneca,' or 'just made it up so I could support my arguement with nah nah nah nah?' Regards.
ushering wrote:
'just made it up so I could support my arguement with nah nah nah nah?'
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix Chihuahua, Mexico
Not much here: My CP Blog!
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
These people are not Native American.
Very true, in fact you even have to watch the tribal references. Most tribal names stem from the names that another tribe called them, but that tribe talked to "Americans" first. So instead of what they call themselves, they are often called something else. The local example is probably Navajo, who call themselves the Diné. Navajo is actually the name given from the Tewa Pueblo Peoples. Depending on who you ask, and what mood they are in they will tell you means theives (takers of the fields), or idiots (farmers of washes/arroyos). Navajo by any meaning was meant and used as an insult by the Pueblo peoples. Most Nations names for themselves are simply "the people". When referring collectively to the many nations, they prefer just that "the Nations". Thus, the Gathering of Nations being an annual event.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
I'd never considered that, though it makes perfect sense, just as history is ever written by the victors. Cool stuff to learn. Saw one of the light & fluffy History Channel things a while back on the Comanche, and though it was translated into English, they said that one tribe refered to the Comanche as, "the ones who always want to fight," which seems to illustrate your point. I wonder if there are any web sites out there which objectively and accurately catalog all of the nations that existed on this land at the time of the European invasions. By the way, why have you started using El Corazon, and what does it translate to?
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
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I'd never considered that, though it makes perfect sense, just as history is ever written by the victors. Cool stuff to learn. Saw one of the light & fluffy History Channel things a while back on the Comanche, and though it was translated into English, they said that one tribe refered to the Comanche as, "the ones who always want to fight," which seems to illustrate your point. I wonder if there are any web sites out there which objectively and accurately catalog all of the nations that existed on this land at the time of the European invasions. By the way, why have you started using El Corazon, and what does it translate to?
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
Christopher Duncan wrote:
why have you started using El Corazon, and what does it translate to?
It translates to "the heart" I had a hard time coming up with a new name, which had to change due to new rules at work. New rules require changes in off-hour stuff as well. You can tell how hard I am working at obeying since all I changed was my name. :) letter of the law. :)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
why have you started using El Corazon, and what does it translate to?
It translates to "the heart" I had a hard time coming up with a new name, which had to change due to new rules at work. New rules require changes in off-hour stuff as well. You can tell how hard I am working at obeying since all I changed was my name. :) letter of the law. :)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Quite appropriate, methinks. On all counts. :)
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
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I was a little concerned about your earlier posts because of the blanket racial statements, but your comments about native South Dakota residents is reassuring about your acceptance of non-white people. I too have had many positive interactions with Native Americans, and I am glad the Natives of South Dakota provided you with positive social interactions. Regards.
I have a high respect for the Lakota and Dakota Sioux of South Dakota, even if they get a bad rap. I took a political science class in college where we discussed the Native Americans and I pointed out that I had a friend with the last name of 'Bad Yellow Hair' and how if caused her problems just because of the pre-concieved notions of Native Americans. I really don't want to blanket any ethnic group being myself part Native American, Jewish, (yeah I know, how can I be Jewish and Native American?) Basque and a few other minority groups. But my introduction to the Mexican immigrant in this area (I truly hope their attitude elsewhere is different) has lead me to my negative reactions. Anyhow, my post was not to put all Mexicans, or all immigrants into one category, but to show the behavior in this particular region. BTW, years ago I had a Mexican penpal that we connected through a sticker magazine because she learned English through the books of Laura Ingalls Wilder who lived in my hometown. I had a very positive look towards Mexicans because of her.
__________________ Bob is my homeboy.
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So that makes two nice Mexicans in the world (I am the other :-D)
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix Chihuahua, Mexico
Not much here: My CP Blog!
I really want to believe in the goodness of all people regardless of where they come from. I am sure there are MANY Mexicans who are wonderful. Just that my experience with a few has been negative. Maybe that just says more about the people immigrating to the area than the ethnicity itself.
__________________ Bob is my homeboy.
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So that makes two nice Mexicans in the world (I am the other :-D)
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix Chihuahua, Mexico
Not much here: My CP Blog!
I really want to believe in the goodness of all people regardless of where they come from. I am sure there are MANY Mexicans who are wonderful. Just that my experience with a few has been negative. Maybe that just says more about the people immigrating to the area than the ethnicity itself.
__________________ Bob is my homeboy.
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I have a high respect for the Lakota and Dakota Sioux of South Dakota, even if they get a bad rap. I took a political science class in college where we discussed the Native Americans and I pointed out that I had a friend with the last name of 'Bad Yellow Hair' and how if caused her problems just because of the pre-concieved notions of Native Americans. I really don't want to blanket any ethnic group being myself part Native American, Jewish, (yeah I know, how can I be Jewish and Native American?) Basque and a few other minority groups. But my introduction to the Mexican immigrant in this area (I truly hope their attitude elsewhere is different) has lead me to my negative reactions. Anyhow, my post was not to put all Mexicans, or all immigrants into one category, but to show the behavior in this particular region. BTW, years ago I had a Mexican penpal that we connected through a sticker magazine because she learned English through the books of Laura Ingalls Wilder who lived in my hometown. I had a very positive look towards Mexicans because of her.
__________________ Bob is my homeboy.