Time to revert back to XP.
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bob16972 wrote:
Programs are slower and get even worse with aero turned on.
Programs are just a little slower (because of the new features in the kernel, for example), and Aero increases performance. Just try to move a window: when Aero is turned on, the movements are smoother than without Aero. Moreover, Aero works with the GPU, so this reduces the load to the CPU even in 2D.
bob16972 wrote:
Since our software will need to work/install on boxes with UAC enabled, I've been testing software with UAC enabled and nothing loads or works as expected. Some of the standard stuff(manifest files) appears to help but there have been many false positives because of virtualization.
Probably your software used to require admin permissions even on XP, maybe? Anyway, installers always display an elevation prompt, so it's fine.
bob16972 wrote:
(Anyone here who has no problems with Vista probably has UAC turned off)
I don't have "problems" (quite a generic word) and I have UAC turned on.
bob16972 wrote:
I ain't got time to keep relearning how to tie my shoes.
Yes, I can see what you mean. The problem is that if you don't have time to keep up with new things, you'll probably lose your job or something. If Microsoft really stopped to modify things, we'd still have Windows 1.0.
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe - but not a personality. - Charlie Brooker My Blog - My Photos - ScrewTurn Wiki
Dario Solera wrote:
If Microsoft really stopped to modify things, we'd still have Windows 1.0.
But there's a difference between things changing because they're getting significantly better and change for change's sake. For everything's that's breaking in Vista, are we getting something that's worth the hassle?
I enjoy occasionally wandering around randomly, and often find that when I do so, I get to where I wanted to be [^]. Awasu 2.3 [^]: A free RSS/Atom feed reader with support for Code Project. 50% discount on the paid editions for CP members!
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Dario Solera wrote:
If Microsoft really stopped to modify things, we'd still have Windows 1.0.
But there's a difference between things changing because they're getting significantly better and change for change's sake. For everything's that's breaking in Vista, are we getting something that's worth the hassle?
I enjoy occasionally wandering around randomly, and often find that when I do so, I get to where I wanted to be [^]. Awasu 2.3 [^]: A free RSS/Atom feed reader with support for Code Project. 50% discount on the paid editions for CP members!
Taka Muraoka wrote:
For everything's that's breaking in Vista, are we getting something that's worth the hassle?
I think so. There are many improvements.
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe - but not a personality. - Charlie Brooker My Blog - My Photos - ScrewTurn Wiki
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Taka Muraoka wrote:
For everything's that's breaking in Vista, are we getting something that's worth the hassle?
I think so. There are many improvements.
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe - but not a personality. - Charlie Brooker My Blog - My Photos - ScrewTurn Wiki
Dario Solera wrote:
I think so. There are many improvements.
Maybe. The difference between 1.0 and 3.1 and then XP are obviously siginificant and worth the headaches but while I've only had a bit of a play with Vista, there doesn't seem to be anything there that makes it worth my while transferring everything over and have half my apps not work properly (or at all). Maybe later when all the devs catch up and everything works but right now, I've got other things I need to be butting heads with :rolleyes: I've got everything in VM's now so it'd be much easier than it would've been otherwise but to be honest, I'll probably keep them all on XP anyway.
I enjoy occasionally wandering around randomly, and often find that when I do so, I get to where I wanted to be [^]. Awasu 2.3 [^]: A free RSS/Atom feed reader with support for Code Project. 50% discount on the paid editions for CP members!
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It has been great for me, no problems at all. On the other hand a friend has had all sorts of problems with it. I'm a software guy so I mess with a lot of software, and Vista has handled it graciously. My friend is a hardware geek and Vista seems to have an allergic reaction when he turns his machine on. Then again... he always had problems with XP too. The only issue I can think of with Vista is that I cannot print in duplex from within Word 2007 on Vista. It works from other apps, just not Word. It is a driver issue, and catches me out once or twice a week. Hardly a show-stopper. I could never go back to XP for one reason alone: In Vista I can hit the start button on my keyboard and type what I want to do and it does it. It is the killer feature of Vista IMO, and I cannot go back from that.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milkDavid Wulff wrote:
In Vista I can hit the start button on my keyboard and type what I want to do and it does it
Heh, I can do that in XP, although not the Start button but Start+R ;P I just wrote a simple command-line program which I can use to define aliases so I just type
run aliasinto the Run box and it goes. Of course it could be expanded more but it works well for a program that took 5 minutes to write and debug. -
Just curious - why set up dual boot instead of using Vista in a VM?
Best wishes, Hans
[CodeProject Forum Guidelines] [How To Ask A Question] [My Articles]
The various VM solutions don't offer an emulated 3D-accelerated graphics controller. Without 3D acceleration (specifically DirectX 9.0-compatible with Shader Model 2.0 and a bunch of video RAM) the Aero Glass interface doesn't work. This could be a problem if you're trying to do something 'cool' with Glass. You also don't get window thumbnails when hovering over the taskbar, and you don't get Flip3D.
Stability. What an interesting concept. -- Chris Maunder
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bob16972 wrote:
Programs are slower and get even worse with aero turned on.
Programs are just a little slower (because of the new features in the kernel, for example), and Aero increases performance. Just try to move a window: when Aero is turned on, the movements are smoother than without Aero. Moreover, Aero works with the GPU, so this reduces the load to the CPU even in 2D.
bob16972 wrote:
Since our software will need to work/install on boxes with UAC enabled, I've been testing software with UAC enabled and nothing loads or works as expected. Some of the standard stuff(manifest files) appears to help but there have been many false positives because of virtualization.
Probably your software used to require admin permissions even on XP, maybe? Anyway, installers always display an elevation prompt, so it's fine.
bob16972 wrote:
(Anyone here who has no problems with Vista probably has UAC turned off)
I don't have "problems" (quite a generic word) and I have UAC turned on.
bob16972 wrote:
I ain't got time to keep relearning how to tie my shoes.
Yes, I can see what you mean. The problem is that if you don't have time to keep up with new things, you'll probably lose your job or something. If Microsoft really stopped to modify things, we'd still have Windows 1.0.
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe - but not a personality. - Charlie Brooker My Blog - My Photos - ScrewTurn Wiki
Dario Solera wrote:
Just try to move a window: when Aero is turned on, the movements are smoother than without Aero.
Just try to resize a window: when Aero is turned on, the movements are clunkier than without Aero.
Dario Solera wrote:
Aero works with the GPU, so this reduces the load to the CPU even in 2D
This begs the question, then why is Aero slower during a resize/repaint. If you think Vista draws GDI or GDI+ graphics faster than on XP or 2000, then you have not done a thorough analysis yet.
Dario Solera wrote:
Probably your software used to require admin permissions even on XP, maybe? Anyway, installers always display an elevation prompt, so it's fine.
Per Machine Installations need administrative rights. Sorry I can't get around that. For programs, only the administrative configuration tools needed admin rights. The app was setup to run as "user". Administrative tools would "silent fail" on Vista with UAC enabled. The administrative tools would ask for an administrative REG_SAM and expect if the user only had "user" credentials, it could tell them they needed administrative rights to write to HKLM. Not so with UAC and virtualization. Manifest files to the rescue? Not quite since running the application once the first time expects to be able to register itself, it's COM junk, etc... The administrator would run the app once to "register" all the built in registration stuff but since the manifest now is set to "AsInvoker" it doesn't work unless the user goes to the executable, right clicks on it and chooses "run as administrator" since the MSI shortcuts don't have this option in the context menu. Pretty silly.
Dario Solera wrote:
I don't have "problems" (quite a generic word) and I have UAC turned on.
Problems meaning, "Do this", "Are you sure you want to do this? This requires administrative rights", "Yes, do that", "This will be run with administrative rights, are you positively sure you want to do this?", "Yes!!!", 5 seconds into MSI installation, a blinking item appears in the taskbar but no window on the desktop, click on the little blinking item, window appears, "some component a needs administrative rights, do you want to give it rights?", "Yes, it's a custom action that is part of the frickin' MSI I just told you to run", repeat next blinking it
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Dario Solera wrote:
Just try to move a window: when Aero is turned on, the movements are smoother than without Aero.
Just try to resize a window: when Aero is turned on, the movements are clunkier than without Aero.
Dario Solera wrote:
Aero works with the GPU, so this reduces the load to the CPU even in 2D
This begs the question, then why is Aero slower during a resize/repaint. If you think Vista draws GDI or GDI+ graphics faster than on XP or 2000, then you have not done a thorough analysis yet.
Dario Solera wrote:
Probably your software used to require admin permissions even on XP, maybe? Anyway, installers always display an elevation prompt, so it's fine.
Per Machine Installations need administrative rights. Sorry I can't get around that. For programs, only the administrative configuration tools needed admin rights. The app was setup to run as "user". Administrative tools would "silent fail" on Vista with UAC enabled. The administrative tools would ask for an administrative REG_SAM and expect if the user only had "user" credentials, it could tell them they needed administrative rights to write to HKLM. Not so with UAC and virtualization. Manifest files to the rescue? Not quite since running the application once the first time expects to be able to register itself, it's COM junk, etc... The administrator would run the app once to "register" all the built in registration stuff but since the manifest now is set to "AsInvoker" it doesn't work unless the user goes to the executable, right clicks on it and chooses "run as administrator" since the MSI shortcuts don't have this option in the context menu. Pretty silly.
Dario Solera wrote:
I don't have "problems" (quite a generic word) and I have UAC turned on.
Problems meaning, "Do this", "Are you sure you want to do this? This requires administrative rights", "Yes, do that", "This will be run with administrative rights, are you positively sure you want to do this?", "Yes!!!", 5 seconds into MSI installation, a blinking item appears in the taskbar but no window on the desktop, click on the little blinking item, window appears, "some component a needs administrative rights, do you want to give it rights?", "Yes, it's a custom action that is part of the frickin' MSI I just told you to run", repeat next blinking it
bob16972 wrote:
Just try to resize a window: when Aero is turned on, the movements are clunkier than without Aero.
That's true. I didn't notice. :-O
bob16972 wrote:
Did you enable your forbidden "administrator" account and run as it, or are you running as a user part of the administrators group? Do you test your software as a standard user? With the original UAC security policy settings as they were after a fresh Vista install since this is the likely configuration of a user of your software?
I run as administrator, but I always developed client software to work with non-admin accounts even on XP, and tested for it. Of course, installers need to run as admin. Anyway, I have to say that I develop mainly custom ASP.NET applications... which resolve all of these problems. :)
bob16972 wrote:
.NET is already on version 3.0 and I've hardly touched it. Why? Because I wouldn't doubt it'll be deprecated soon. They struggled to name it .NET 3.0 if I remember correctly as if they were ready to can it and develop the newer technolgies under a different name. Change is good when in small doses and it fulfills a need and eliminates a void.
.NET did that, in my opinion. Again, if everyone thought like that, we'd still live in caverns because just anything is deprecated soon or later. Anyway, you should be used to the fact that every new version of Windows causes some compatibility problems, and I think it's inevitable.
bob16972 wrote:
Mr. Solera, if you think corporate software will just have to be rewritten and that's that, you've grossly underestimated the time and effort involved.
I didn't say that. I just said that if you want (or need) to support Vista, you have to learn new things. I completely agree that in the corporate environment applications don't (and don't need to) change very often, but again, if you have to support Vista clients, prepare to learn how it works, and repeat the process for the next Windows, and so on. Or switch to another platform, which is probably the same. I think Aero should be disabled in companies if it creates problems with applications. It's just useless eyecandy (although I really like it). I don't know what software are you working with, but I barely had problems with any of the software I use and I think Vista is a good OS, worth upgrading bo
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The various VM solutions don't offer an emulated 3D-accelerated graphics controller. Without 3D acceleration (specifically DirectX 9.0-compatible with Shader Model 2.0 and a bunch of video RAM) the Aero Glass interface doesn't work. This could be a problem if you're trying to do something 'cool' with Glass. You also don't get window thumbnails when hovering over the taskbar, and you don't get Flip3D.
Stability. What an interesting concept. -- Chris Maunder
Mike Dimmick wrote:
The various VM solutions don't offer an emulated 3D-accelerated graphics controller.
hmmm... I thought VMware 6 did support that (can't find a link right now)? Anyway, there is a hack for VMware 5 here.
Best wishes, Hans
[CodeProject Forum Guidelines] [How To Ask A Question] [My Articles]
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Captain See Sharp wrote:
How has your Vista experience been for all you Vista users out here?
Applications should be independent of the operating system. Our Plain English development system, for example, and any applications developed with it, look and behave exactly the same on both XP and Vista. And our general-purpose pagebase application (developed earlier) hasn't changed since Windows 95. Microsoft should not be deciding what kind of new stuff we need and telling us when and how to change; the operating system should be transparent to the end user. ---
The Grand Negus wrote:
Applications should be independent of the operating system.
That's the way I have always thought about Un*x. Conversely, most consultants I know refer to Windows as "Microsoft's gift to consultants". :laugh:
Best wishes, Hans
[CodeProject Forum Guidelines] [How To Ask A Question] [My Articles]
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After using Vista for a while I have decided to go back to XP. I miss the pretty blue theme and well designed interface that I know so well. Oh and the rock solid drivers and great resource conservation. Perhaps I will go back to Vista when service pack one comes out. I am having numerouse problems with Vista, its just unacceptable. How has your Vista experience been for all you Vista users out here?
█▒▒▒▒▒██▒█▒██ █▒█████▒▒▒▒▒█ █▒██████▒█▒██ █▒█████▒▒▒▒▒█ █▒▒▒▒▒██▒█▒██
My experience with Vista: explorer.exe regularly goes to 100% processor usage and needs to be restarted to free the CPU again. Explorer sometimes didn't allow multi-selection. Choosing "Reset folders" in the folder options and restarting explorer fixed the problem, but it reappeared from time to time. After I re-enabled "Remember each folders view settings", the bug didn't appear again. Hell, even Minesweeper has bugs in Vista: sometimes, when clicking too fast while another animation is still running, Minesweeper hangs (happened three times to me). After killing minesweeper.exe, the hanging Minesweeper window keeps open, but can be clicked through. Restarting dwm.exe fixes that. I also had that "killed program doesn't close its windows" bug with my own Windows.Forms applications, it's a DWM bug.
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David Wulff wrote:
In Vista I can hit the start button on my keyboard and type what I want to do and it does it. It is the killer feature of Vista IMO, and I cannot go back from that.
On my Windows 2000 box at work, I can hit Win+SPACE and do the same thing - I use Launchy[^]. But the only reason I installed Launchy at work was because I'd used QuickSilver[^] and Spotlight on my iBook. It *is* a killer feature - but there are non-Vista alternatives...thankfully, 'cause I don't think we'll be using Vista at work in the next five years :rolleyes:
Stuart Dootson wrote:
'cause I don't think we'll be using Vista at work in the next five years
That figures if you're still on Win2k at work! :)
Kevin
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bob16972 wrote:
Programs are slower and get even worse with aero turned on.
Programs are just a little slower (because of the new features in the kernel, for example), and Aero increases performance. Just try to move a window: when Aero is turned on, the movements are smoother than without Aero. Moreover, Aero works with the GPU, so this reduces the load to the CPU even in 2D.
bob16972 wrote:
Since our software will need to work/install on boxes with UAC enabled, I've been testing software with UAC enabled and nothing loads or works as expected. Some of the standard stuff(manifest files) appears to help but there have been many false positives because of virtualization.
Probably your software used to require admin permissions even on XP, maybe? Anyway, installers always display an elevation prompt, so it's fine.
bob16972 wrote:
(Anyone here who has no problems with Vista probably has UAC turned off)
I don't have "problems" (quite a generic word) and I have UAC turned on.
bob16972 wrote:
I ain't got time to keep relearning how to tie my shoes.
Yes, I can see what you mean. The problem is that if you don't have time to keep up with new things, you'll probably lose your job or something. If Microsoft really stopped to modify things, we'd still have Windows 1.0.
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe - but not a personality. - Charlie Brooker My Blog - My Photos - ScrewTurn Wiki
Dario Solera wrote:
If Microsoft really stopped to modify things, we'd still have Windows 1.0.
It's interesting that Microsoft is criticised for churning out new OSes too far ahead of when most people want them and at the same time criticised for delivering them "2 years late."
Kevin
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Dario Solera wrote:
If Microsoft really stopped to modify things, we'd still have Windows 1.0.
But there's a difference between things changing because they're getting significantly better and change for change's sake. For everything's that's breaking in Vista, are we getting something that's worth the hassle?
I enjoy occasionally wandering around randomly, and often find that when I do so, I get to where I wanted to be [^]. Awasu 2.3 [^]: A free RSS/Atom feed reader with support for Code Project. 50% discount on the paid editions for CP members!
Maybe Vista is just part of the ongoing trend within Microsoft towards breaking backwards compatibility. A Microsoft blogger described this a while back.
Kevin
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Maybe Vista is just part of the ongoing trend within Microsoft towards breaking backwards compatibility. A Microsoft blogger described this a while back.
Kevin
Kevin McFarlane wrote:
Maybe Vista is just part of the ongoing trend within Microsoft towards breaking backwards compatibility.
Fire and motion :-)
Kevin McFarlane wrote:
A Microsoft blogger described this a while back.
Got a link?
I enjoy occasionally wandering around randomly, and often find that when I do so, I get to where I wanted to be [^]. Awasu 2.3 [^]: A free RSS/Atom feed reader with support for Code Project. 50% discount on the paid editions for CP members!
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Captain See Sharp wrote:
How has your Vista experience been for all you Vista users out here?
Applications should be independent of the operating system. Our Plain English development system, for example, and any applications developed with it, look and behave exactly the same on both XP and Vista. And our general-purpose pagebase application (developed earlier) hasn't changed since Windows 95. Microsoft should not be deciding what kind of new stuff we need and telling us when and how to change; the operating system should be transparent to the end user. ---
At it again osmo! X|
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
*NOTE* This is NOT against you or anything, just thinking out loud. It'd be fun to see a real-life, commercialmaybe) application developed in Plain English. What would be even _more_ fun, is if someone made an extension for it to support WCF, WPF, etc. .... "transform the listbox by 31.415926 units to the right, set alpha-transparence to 42%, rotate it on X and Y axises by 2.71828 degrees. Then, for every item in the listbox, invoke the SaveData method of the http://sometime.net/blahblah.asmx webservice, passing it the name and id of the items casted to CSomeDataClass" *ahem* yeah.
:badger:
How much did osmo pay you to be a shill? :doh:
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
David Wulff wrote:
In Vista I can hit the start button on my keyboard and type what I want to do and it does it. It is the killer feature of Vista IMO, and I cannot go back from that.
On my Windows 2000 box at work, I can hit Win+SPACE and do the same thing - I use Launchy[^]. But the only reason I installed Launchy at work was because I'd used QuickSilver[^] and Spotlight on my iBook. It *is* a killer feature - but there are non-Vista alternatives...thankfully, 'cause I don't think we'll be using Vista at work in the next five years :rolleyes:
Stuart Dootson wrote:
thankfully, 'cause I don't think we'll be using Vista at work in the next five years
If what I read in a recent issue of InformationWeek holds true I think you're lining yourself up for a huge disappointment.
"We are all repositories for genetically-encoded information that we're all spreading back and forth amongst each other, all the time. We're just lousy with information." - Neal Stephenson
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Kevin McFarlane wrote:
Maybe Vista is just part of the ongoing trend within Microsoft towards breaking backwards compatibility.
Fire and motion :-)
Kevin McFarlane wrote:
A Microsoft blogger described this a while back.
Got a link?
I enjoy occasionally wandering around randomly, and often find that when I do so, I get to where I wanted to be [^]. Awasu 2.3 [^]: A free RSS/Atom feed reader with support for Code Project. 50% discount on the paid editions for CP members!
No. Problem is I can't remember the person's name, but I think it was one of the top techies.
Kevin
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After using Vista for a while I have decided to go back to XP. I miss the pretty blue theme and well designed interface that I know so well. Oh and the rock solid drivers and great resource conservation. Perhaps I will go back to Vista when service pack one comes out. I am having numerouse problems with Vista, its just unacceptable. How has your Vista experience been for all you Vista users out here?
█▒▒▒▒▒██▒█▒██ █▒█████▒▒▒▒▒█ █▒██████▒█▒██ █▒█████▒▒▒▒▒█ █▒▒▒▒▒██▒█▒██
I'm putting XP on my mom's computer soon (probably today, in fact). Vista itself runs fine, but she's getting back into gaming and it turns out that the games she likes just plain don't work. :|
--Mike-- Visual C++ MVP :cool: LINKS~! Ericahist | PimpFish | CP SearchBar v3.0 | C++ Forum FAQ Dunder-Mifflin, this is Pam.
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David Wulff wrote:
In Vista I can hit the start button on my keyboard and type what I want to do and it does it. It is the killer feature of Vista IMO, and I cannot go back from that.
On my Windows 2000 box at work, I can hit Win+SPACE and do the same thing - I use Launchy[^]. But the only reason I installed Launchy at work was because I'd used QuickSilver[^] and Spotlight on my iBook. It *is* a killer feature - but there are non-Vista alternatives...thankfully, 'cause I don't think we'll be using Vista at work in the next five years :rolleyes:
Stuart Dootson wrote:
David Wulff wrote: In Vista I can hit the start button on my keyboard and type what I want to do and it does it. It is the killer feature of Vista IMO, and I cannot go back from that.
Try using Run++ (http://puzzleware.net/runpp/). Its free and its my alternative to QuickSilver on Windows although its no where even close to it.