Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • World
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Code Project
  1. Home
  2. The Lounge
  3. Future of C++ and Visual C++ within MS

Future of C++ and Visual C++ within MS

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved The Lounge
c++com
27 Posts 11 Posters 0 Views 1 Watching
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • S StevenWalsh

    lol 32k... i think my program uses that as a buffer :)

    E Offline
    E Offline
    El Corazon
    wrote on last edited by
    #9

    StevenWalsh wrote:

    i think my program uses that as a buffer

    I think a module within my program uses that as a buffer. I have world textures and physics buffers that dwarf that.

    _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)

    E 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • E El Corazon

      StevenWalsh wrote:

      i think my program uses that as a buffer

      I think a module within my program uses that as a buffer. I have world textures and physics buffers that dwarf that.

      _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)

      E Offline
      E Offline
      Ed Poore
      wrote on last edited by
      #10

      Suprisingly lately we've been using quite a few of these in small systems because they tend to be quite efficient and not doing much.  The main processor used in our embedded systems has about 138K of RAM & ROM combined, and operates at 20MHz.  Most of the time though it's drawing <5mW of power, so compare that to your systems :-D, now who's green :rolleyes:.  Reason I say normally is that when it's not in standby it usually draws around 100mW but it's switched off most of the time because most processing is now being done in FPGAs so much much much faster (think speed of light :cool: and you're not far off).


      My Blog

      E 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • E El Corazon

        Ed.Poore wrote:

        32K

        I think I have a texture somewhere that small.... ;) but I might have to rumage and search for a while....

        _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)

        E Offline
        E Offline
        Ed Poore
        wrote on last edited by
        #11

        Just found a smaller micro[^], although I don't think that we use any of these but we use larger versions.  Imaging running .NET in 384 bytes of RAM :eek:


        My Blog

        D M 2 Replies Last reply
        0
        • E Ed Poore

          Suprisingly lately we've been using quite a few of these in small systems because they tend to be quite efficient and not doing much.  The main processor used in our embedded systems has about 138K of RAM & ROM combined, and operates at 20MHz.  Most of the time though it's drawing <5mW of power, so compare that to your systems :-D, now who's green :rolleyes:.  Reason I say normally is that when it's not in standby it usually draws around 100mW but it's switched off most of the time because most processing is now being done in FPGAs so much much much faster (think speed of light :cool: and you're not far off).


          My Blog

          E Offline
          E Offline
          El Corazon
          wrote on last edited by
          #12

          Ed.Poore wrote:

          The main processor used in our embedded systems has about 138K of RAM & ROM combined, and operates at 20MHz.

          Yup, used them before. I didn't always do 3D graphics on err... green... machines. ;) I've done embedded work for various projects. When you are hanging a package from a 3 mile length of kevlar rope and aiming a missile at it (hoping you take the target hanging below, not the package above), you want it all to be cheap, light, low-power and ... well... inexpensive (in labor not just materials, plug-n-err... pray) just in case you have a .... near-miss that hits the package instead of the target (which has happened). Also, if you are putting a telecommunication package on a mini-helicopter, again all the samethings apply. :)

          _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)

          E 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • D Duncan Edwards Jones

            [Message Deleted]

            L Offline
            L Offline
            led mike
            wrote on last edited by
            #13

            Duncan Edwards Jones wrote:

            but there's a great big meteorite with "Web 2.0"

            :laugh::laugh::laugh: Web 2[^] :laugh::laugh::laugh: oh I see you are a VBer... nevermind

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • E El Corazon

              Ed.Poore wrote:

              The main processor used in our embedded systems has about 138K of RAM & ROM combined, and operates at 20MHz.

              Yup, used them before. I didn't always do 3D graphics on err... green... machines. ;) I've done embedded work for various projects. When you are hanging a package from a 3 mile length of kevlar rope and aiming a missile at it (hoping you take the target hanging below, not the package above), you want it all to be cheap, light, low-power and ... well... inexpensive (in labor not just materials, plug-n-err... pray) just in case you have a .... near-miss that hits the package instead of the target (which has happened). Also, if you are putting a telecommunication package on a mini-helicopter, again all the samethings apply. :)

              _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)

              E Offline
              E Offline
              Ed Poore
              wrote on last edited by
              #14

              El Corazon wrote:

              plug-n-err... pray

              Isn't that standard for Windows? :rolleyes:


              My Blog

              E 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • E Ed Poore

                El Corazon wrote:

                plug-n-err... pray

                Isn't that standard for Windows? :rolleyes:


                My Blog

                E Offline
                E Offline
                El Corazon
                wrote on last edited by
                #15

                Ed.Poore wrote:

                Isn't that standard for Windows?

                true... but I was thinking even hardware interfacing. Hehe, though we did have an embedded Windows machine come crashing down from about 14 feet in height.... with camera attached with USB connections to hardware.... amazingly enough everything but the USB hub survived the fall, though only because we had just shut down the hardware at the time.... I am trying to imagine a disk seek/write on a 14foot pole that decided it wanted to play hammer-time....

                _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)

                E 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • E Ed Poore

                  Just found a smaller micro[^], although I don't think that we use any of these but we use larger versions.  Imaging running .NET in 384 bytes of RAM :eek:


                  My Blog

                  D Offline
                  D Offline
                  Dan Neely
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #16

                  are you sure that's not cache ram and it needs an external memory connection?

                  -- You have to explain to them [VB coders] what you mean by "typed". their first response is likely to be something like, "Of course my code is typed. Do you think i magically project it onto the screen with the power of my mind?" --- John Simmons / outlaw programmer

                  E 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • D Duncan Edwards Jones

                    [Message Deleted]

                    L Offline
                    L Offline
                    led mike
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #17

                    Duncan Edwards Jones wrote:

                    The reason I say this is likely to happen is because...

                    ... because you're a VBer... nuf said

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • T The Wizard of Doze

                      C++ is "not yet extinct" at Microsoft. Quite the contrary: "Central to the success of these customers, as well as Microsoft's own internal development, is Visual C++." Hard to believe ... :suss: http://blogs.msdn.com/sripod/archive/2007/06/26/future-of-c-and-visual-c-within-ms-and-elsewhere.aspx[^]

                      K Offline
                      K Offline
                      Kevin McFarlane
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #18

                      Well, could be true of C++ rather than the VC++ dev environment experience. I gather a lot of MS devs don't use Visual Studio for C++ development.

                      Kevin

                      J 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • E El Corazon

                        Ed.Poore wrote:

                        Isn't that standard for Windows?

                        true... but I was thinking even hardware interfacing. Hehe, though we did have an embedded Windows machine come crashing down from about 14 feet in height.... with camera attached with USB connections to hardware.... amazingly enough everything but the USB hub survived the fall, though only because we had just shut down the hardware at the time.... I am trying to imagine a disk seek/write on a 14foot pole that decided it wanted to play hammer-time....

                        _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)

                        E Offline
                        E Offline
                        Ed Poore
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #19

                        :laugh:


                        My Blog

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • D Dan Neely

                          are you sure that's not cache ram and it needs an external memory connection?

                          -- You have to explain to them [VB coders] what you mean by "typed". their first response is likely to be something like, "Of course my code is typed. Do you think i magically project it onto the screen with the power of my mind?" --- John Simmons / outlaw programmer

                          E Offline
                          E Offline
                          Ed Poore
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #20

                          No that'd be program RAM & ROM, you could probably write a small boot loader which goes off and reads more program from an EEPROM but why not shell out a few more pence and get a bigger one.  There are applications for such small micros, for example some simple switch devices etc.


                          My Blog

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • K Kevin McFarlane

                            Well, could be true of C++ rather than the VC++ dev environment experience. I gather a lot of MS devs don't use Visual Studio for C++ development.

                            Kevin

                            J Offline
                            J Offline
                            Joe Woodbury
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #21

                            Kevin McFarlane wrote:

                            I gather a lot of MS devs don't use Visual Studio for C++ development.

                            A lot don't, but the vast majority do. At one point during the VS 2005 roll out someone from Microsoft admitted this very thing. It begs the question, then, of why C/C++ support sucks so bad in VS 2005. (Okay, okay, I know the answer--idiots in marketing.) I am quite sure the number of .NET developers has soared in the past two years. I'm equally confident that Visual Studio, in general, is still mostly used for C/C++ development. Based on first hand experience, though, Microsoft dropped the ball so badly with VS 2005 and C++, that it's up in the air whether C++ developer make up the majority of that specific version. (For all it's ills, I still push it. The compiler is fantastic and the whistles and bells, however, buggy, make it worthwhile. The CRT, however, desparately needs a code bloat reduction--something that's been true for years.)

                            Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke

                            E K 2 Replies Last reply
                            0
                            • J Joe Woodbury

                              Kevin McFarlane wrote:

                              I gather a lot of MS devs don't use Visual Studio for C++ development.

                              A lot don't, but the vast majority do. At one point during the VS 2005 roll out someone from Microsoft admitted this very thing. It begs the question, then, of why C/C++ support sucks so bad in VS 2005. (Okay, okay, I know the answer--idiots in marketing.) I am quite sure the number of .NET developers has soared in the past two years. I'm equally confident that Visual Studio, in general, is still mostly used for C/C++ development. Based on first hand experience, though, Microsoft dropped the ball so badly with VS 2005 and C++, that it's up in the air whether C++ developer make up the majority of that specific version. (For all it's ills, I still push it. The compiler is fantastic and the whistles and bells, however, buggy, make it worthwhile. The CRT, however, desparately needs a code bloat reduction--something that's been true for years.)

                              Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke

                              E Offline
                              E Offline
                              El Corazon
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #22

                              Joe Woodbury wrote:

                              The CRT, however, desparately needs a code bloat reduction--something that's been true for years.)

                              hmmmm decades.... :-D

                              _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • J Joe Woodbury

                                Kevin McFarlane wrote:

                                I gather a lot of MS devs don't use Visual Studio for C++ development.

                                A lot don't, but the vast majority do. At one point during the VS 2005 roll out someone from Microsoft admitted this very thing. It begs the question, then, of why C/C++ support sucks so bad in VS 2005. (Okay, okay, I know the answer--idiots in marketing.) I am quite sure the number of .NET developers has soared in the past two years. I'm equally confident that Visual Studio, in general, is still mostly used for C/C++ development. Based on first hand experience, though, Microsoft dropped the ball so badly with VS 2005 and C++, that it's up in the air whether C++ developer make up the majority of that specific version. (For all it's ills, I still push it. The compiler is fantastic and the whistles and bells, however, buggy, make it worthwhile. The CRT, however, desparately needs a code bloat reduction--something that's been true for years.)

                                Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke

                                K Offline
                                K Offline
                                Kevin McFarlane
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #23

                                Joe Woodbury wrote:

                                It begs the question, then, of why C/C++ support sucks so bad in VS 2005.

                                Indeed. So why aren't Microsoft themselves pissed off about it? They must surely find it as painful as everyone else does. (Well, I'm not talking about me because I've only ever done C# and VB in the .NET-era IDEs. Apart from sluggish performance the IDE is otherwise super for them.)

                                Kevin

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • E Ed Poore

                                  Just found a smaller micro[^], although I don't think that we use any of these but we use larger versions.  Imaging running .NET in 384 bytes of RAM :eek:


                                  My Blog

                                  M Offline
                                  M Offline
                                  Mike Dimmick
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #24

                                  .NET Micro Framework[^] requires 256KB of RAM and 512KB of Flash/ROM. There's no separate kernel on this - .NET Micro Framework is the operating system. I think they cheat though - the code is not JITted but compiled to native code at ROM build time.

                                  Stability. What an interesting concept. -- Chris Maunder

                                  E 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • M Mike Dimmick

                                    .NET Micro Framework[^] requires 256KB of RAM and 512KB of Flash/ROM. There's no separate kernel on this - .NET Micro Framework is the operating system. I think they cheat though - the code is not JITted but compiled to native code at ROM build time.

                                    Stability. What an interesting concept. -- Chris Maunder

                                    E Offline
                                    E Offline
                                    Ed Poore
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #25

                                    Aye but the killer is it has to be (I thought it did) a 32 bti micro and you don't get small ones of those.


                                    My Blog

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • T The Wizard of Doze

                                      C++ is "not yet extinct" at Microsoft. Quite the contrary: "Central to the success of these customers, as well as Microsoft's own internal development, is Visual C++." Hard to believe ... :suss: http://blogs.msdn.com/sripod/archive/2007/06/26/future-of-c-and-visual-c-within-ms-and-elsewhere.aspx[^]

                                      S Offline
                                      S Offline
                                      soap brain
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #26

                                      Nice to know I'm not learning a doomed language. Well, at least not doomed YET.

                                      Ravel H. Joyce - Well I say that sticking a balloon to your head IS a scientific experiment!

                                      K 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • S soap brain

                                        Nice to know I'm not learning a doomed language. Well, at least not doomed YET.

                                        Ravel H. Joyce - Well I say that sticking a balloon to your head IS a scientific experiment!

                                        K Offline
                                        K Offline
                                        Kevin McFarlane
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #27

                                        Of course, even if it were doomed it would only be in the MS world that this is the case.

                                        Kevin

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        Reply
                                        • Reply as topic
                                        Log in to reply
                                        • Oldest to Newest
                                        • Newest to Oldest
                                        • Most Votes


                                        • Login

                                        • Don't have an account? Register

                                        • Login or register to search.
                                        • First post
                                          Last post
                                        0
                                        • Categories
                                        • Recent
                                        • Tags
                                        • Popular
                                        • World
                                        • Users
                                        • Groups