hiring practices
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If I were a hiring manager, and I just recieved my managment labatomy, I would not care about either terms. All I would care about is where they recieved thier degree. "Maharaja Sayajirao University of Baroda" sounds A LOT CHEAPER than "George Mason University".
MrPlankton
MSU is a fine school.
Darroll
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Can you even get a Bachelors in Web Development? If I saw that, I would think something's fishy.
- S 50 cups of coffee and you know it's on!
I've never seen a BS in web dev either. I'm currently going for a bachelors in IT and I think that is kind of strange. One in web dev; i'd raise an eyebrow to that. I have to agree with a previous poster that hiring someone self taught is usually a good thing, degree or not. Those who spend hours and hours self teaching themselves on complex technologies really care about what they do and are more prone to do quality work.
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jgasm wrote:
because they will have more experience in organizational communication
I totally disagree. This is the single biggest deficiency of most colleges; personal work is emphasized much more than group projects. By graduation, a student will have worked in a group of two or three maybe a dozen times on relatively short projects. (The issue isn't learning how to get along or any of that touchy-feely crap, but how to get the job done when dealing with people of varied skills and personalities and at least one loser who screws up every project he touches.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
I have been an Adjunct Professor at a major university for the past 6 years, teaching a web development class for a business/MIS degree. The amount of information I could teach in a single semester, 3 credit class was not even close to enough for the kids to be good at anything related to Web Development. This is the minimum curriculum I would suggest for a BSWD: XHTML/CSS User Interface Design/Meeting User Needs OOP/C Language programming (as a basis to learn other languages from) JavaScript/Client-side scripting Graphics Design for the Web Color and Design Philosophy Typeography Technical Writing I Math through Calculus II General Business Practices Project Management Web-based business planning XML/XSLT ASP.NET Perl/SSI/CGI PHP/MySQL AJAX/REST Java Network Engineering I Linux/Unix System Administration Microsoft Server Administration Other Technologies: Ruby, Python, Etc. Then get them spend a year as an intern in a large programming environment (more than 20 programmers), then I'd call them a capable BSWD. Tell me which of these skills isn't necessary.. Oh, and explain to me again how Web Development doesn't rate a degree program?
Bart A. Edgerton www.ewebdev.net
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if you were hiring for a position title "web application something-or-another" would your interest be more piqued by a degree titled: Bachelors in Web Development or Bachelors in Computer Science I'm not asking if you would have them code something. I really just want to know which title sounds more "appealing" per se. In other words, all else being equal. :-D
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achelors in WD is more front end/back end vs Bachelors of CS I would think would be back end/ Apps. So for a job titled "Web Application something or another" I'd look at the Computer Science grad. Though truly I think it would depend more on the individual and their personal experience. ~Nitui "interactive media design something or another"
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I agree with Steve. A bachelor's in Web Development sounds very unusual. Normally your would see a BSCS or BSIT something more general. The person would then specify "Emphasis in web development". I think you should check the web for Bachelor's Degree designations in a search engine, here is the State of Louisiana's standards to get you started: http://asa.regents.state.la.us/PP/Attachments/I You can see most degrees are general, then there is a specialty or emphasis tract within the degree.
MajorTom123 wrote:
You can see most degrees are general, then there is a specialty or emphasis tract within the degree.
good for them. im glad louisiana has degree tracks...
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That was my thought too - a degree in "web development" sounds like something dreamed up my a cheep community college offered next stor to the auto handyman tech program.- I doubt any such degree would come from a accredited university system.
pgorbas wrote:
I doubt any such degree would come from a accredited university system.
well they do.
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if you were hiring for a position title "web application something-or-another" would your interest be more piqued by a degree titled: Bachelors in Web Development or Bachelors in Computer Science I'm not asking if you would have them code something. I really just want to know which title sounds more "appealing" per se. In other words, all else being equal. :-D
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As a technology becomes more evolved so the student must be more specialized. Degree in Compjutet Science - what does that mean? If you wanted to write vector code from assembly I would go with BCS but if I wanted someone to write an AJAX site in 4 days I would go with BWD. Jeremy Went - No pithy quote
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Can you even get a Bachelors in Web Development? If I saw that, I would think something's fishy.
- S 50 cups of coffee and you know it's on!
Steve Echols wrote:
If I saw that, I would think something's fishy.
I totally agree. When I was hiring, I looked carefully at the degrees and certifications someone claimed, and if something looked strange, I didn't give them as much consideration. I'd phrase it in more "academic" terms - something like "Bachelor of Arts in Web Development", depending on what the school actually offers.
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peterchen wrote:
jgasm wrote: Bachelors in Web Development that one. You can expect domain specific knowledge
And what knowledge would ya expect from "kicked out after 2 years" :)
"Throughout human history, we have been dependent on machines to survive. Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony. " - Morpheus "Real men use mspaint for writing code and notepad for designing graphics." - Anna-Jayne Metcalfe
dnh wrote:
And what knowledge would ya expect from "kicked out after 2 years"
Laziness, and coping with life.
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighist -
if you were hiring for a position title "web application something-or-another" would your interest be more piqued by a degree titled: Bachelors in Web Development or Bachelors in Computer Science I'm not asking if you would have them code something. I really just want to know which title sounds more "appealing" per se. In other words, all else being equal. :-D
----------------------------------------------------------- Completion Deadline: two days before the day after tomorrow
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if you were hiring for a position title "web application something-or-another" would your interest be more piqued by a degree titled: Bachelors in Web Development or Bachelors in Computer Science I'm not asking if you would have them code something. I really just want to know which title sounds more "appealing" per se. In other words, all else being equal. :-D
----------------------------------------------------------- Completion Deadline: two days before the day after tomorrow
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if you were hiring for a position title "web application something-or-another" would your interest be more piqued by a degree titled: Bachelors in Web Development or Bachelors in Computer Science I'm not asking if you would have them code something. I really just want to know which title sounds more "appealing" per se. In other words, all else being equal. :-D
----------------------------------------------------------- Completion Deadline: two days before the day after tomorrow
Neither. I rarely look at degrees when considering a new hire. One of the best developers (not solely graphic design) I've known had a Bachelors of Fine Arts. And some of the best web engineers I know don't have any degrees at all. By the contrary, as someone else mentioned... if I ever saw a resume with a "Bachelor of Web Development" degree, it'd actually be something of a strike against the applicant. I would start to think something was awry since the likelihood of there being such a degree is slim, but even if such a degree existed I'd imagine the curriculum to be so specialized and narrow to be useful.
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Can you even get a Bachelors in Web Development? If I saw that, I would think something's fishy.
- S 50 cups of coffee and you know it's on!
I would have to agree that BWD sounds fishy. BCS on the other hand would indicate instruction on the basic principles of computers and application design which in my mind is much more important than, as someone above put it, "domain specific knowledge". To put it another way someone with a broad technical knowledge base (CS) has a foundation that can be applied to learning Web Development and beyond whereas someone with a Web Development degree is more likely to be missing some fundamentals that could hinder or stall their skill growth.
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Roger Wright wrote:
Nothing about web development is challenging enough to justify a degree of any kind; maybe a certificate at most.
Are you assuming that web development == static HTML pages, or just trying to stir controversy ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
Are you assuming that web development == static HTML pages, or just trying to stir controversy ?
Web Developement is not neccessarily difficult at all. You can in fact "code" HTML and some poorly written Javascript and call yourself a Web Developer. On the other hand, you can be an Enterprise Application Developer that happens to use the Web as your platform of choice; a very skilled Web Developer indeed. I don't think they are trying to stir up controversy at all. What is more important than knowing web development are basic principles taught in any CS ciriculum such as OOP, Data Structures, Memory Management, State Management, and so on. I have had a Web Developer title for quite a while but I could just as easily have an Enterprise Application Developer title or Database Developer title. Not all Web Developers are capable of that level of diversity and skill. Graduates of reputable CS programs are.
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But a BS in CS won't give them a clue on how to write web applications. A web development degree is usually a BS in CIS with a concentration in web development. That individual will at least know the basics od developing for the web. Now this is with the caveat that neither had the forethought to learn web application design on their own. Speaking specifically of the degrees alone.
Darroll
Darrol wrote:
BS in CIS with a concentration in web development
...which is not BS in Web Development. Web Development is a particular niche in the larger sphere of Computer Science and Computer Information Systems. Good Web Development is based on fundamental principles of CS.
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Neither. I rarely look at degrees when considering a new hire. One of the best developers (not solely graphic design) I've known had a Bachelors of Fine Arts. And some of the best web engineers I know don't have any degrees at all. By the contrary, as someone else mentioned... if I ever saw a resume with a "Bachelor of Web Development" degree, it'd actually be something of a strike against the applicant. I would start to think something was awry since the likelihood of there being such a degree is slim, but even if such a degree existed I'd imagine the curriculum to be so specialized and narrow to be useful.
Half way through my schooling (yes a major accredited school) they changed the name of my degree from a Bachelors of Multimedia and Web Design to Bachelors of Interactive Media Design. So I would assume that BWD is not a popular title. Also I would say that I would not have my current position without a degree. I believe that it helps non-technical people (you know in most cases the people doing the hiring) know that you have a basic skills set. They wouldn't know the right questions to ask a self-taught person. That being said, I have learned more after I graduating than I did in school but I needed the basics that I received there. Back to the original topic, my particular program did very little with Java or Ajax. So, based on my experience - I would say right out of school a WD would not be qualified in Web Apps. Though I think a CS wouldn’t be qualified either. So, either is probably close enough just make sure the individual has the experience in Web Apps.
