VB.net
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Marc Clifton wrote:
the major difference is going to be your attitude toward VB.
Yes, I think it's my attitude I'm going to have to get over. Reading through the document that Vasudevan mentioned earlier I was sort of surprised at the amount of dumbing down there seems to be, with keywords like Friend instead of internal, Nothing instead of null and others like MustInherit and NotInheritable. It kind of reminds me of the LOGO language I used to use in school. Plus there's the lack of {} and ; But I suppose if I'm getting paid to do it......
ChrisB ChrisDoesDev[^]
Chris Buckett wrote:
I was sort of surprised at the amount of dumbing down there seems to be
I could never get my head wrapped around function calls. Sometimes they are without parenthesis, sometimes with, and it changes something about how the function is called.
Chris Buckett wrote:
But I suppose if I'm getting paid to do it......
What made working in VB a moderately pleasant experience the one time I did it was the environment and the people. The other programmers were decent folks, the decision to use VB had been mandated by management (the "it's easier and therefore cheaper" fallacy). Marc
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Chris Buckett wrote:
I was sort of surprised at the amount of dumbing down there seems to be
I could never get my head wrapped around function calls. Sometimes they are without parenthesis, sometimes with, and it changes something about how the function is called.
Chris Buckett wrote:
But I suppose if I'm getting paid to do it......
What made working in VB a moderately pleasant experience the one time I did it was the environment and the people. The other programmers were decent folks, the decision to use VB had been mandated by management (the "it's easier and therefore cheaper" fallacy). Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
Sometimes they are without parenthesis, sometimes with, and it changes something about how the function is called.
And forget about using paranthesis with the default constructor because it's too confusing - why? We're not children.
Please visit http://www.readytogiveup.com/ and do something special today. Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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"loosey-goosey" - I like that - might start using that one when justifying sticking with C# instead of VB.
"More functions should disregard input values and just return 12. It would make life easier." - comment posted on WTF
Malcolm Smart wrote:
"loosey-goosey" - I like that - might start using that one when justifying sticking with C# instead of VB.
It goes along with "duck typing":-D
Please visit http://www.readytogiveup.com/ and do something special today. Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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So I'm currently looking for new work, and the possibility of an interesting opportunity has come up with a local company. The only problem is they use VB.net. I think they had a legacy codebase in VB originally. I've only coded VB when I absolutely have to, although I can look at VB.net code and roughly work out it's intent. I can't imagine it would be too hard to transfer from c# to vb.net, but are there any major differences between the languages? For example, I'm sure I've read pieces recently about various new MS technologies like Linq and WPF and .net 3.5 language features that are only available in c# at the moment. Did I imagine it, or is it possible to use every feature of .net equally well in either language? Cheers (and I know I'll be joining the dark side). :)
ChrisB ChrisDoesDev[^]
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Chris Buckett wrote:
I can't imagine it would be too hard to transfer from c# to vb.net, but are there any major differences between the languages?
Besides any difference in support for any language advances, the major difference is going to be your attitude toward VB. Although I consider myself a professional and should therefore be able to put my sympathies and antipathies aside when working on something, I simply cannot when working with VB. I am constantly groaning at the syntax quirks and the loosey-goosey feeling of working with it. About the only thing I ever liked about VB was the horizontal bar the IDE draws to separate your methods, and that's not even a language feature! Maybe being a professional means that you actually let your visceral reaction to something express itself. :) Marc
I hate the fact that it doesn't let you format your code to your own tastes. Every line contains text with no white space drives me freakin' insane.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
So I'm currently looking for new work, and the possibility of an interesting opportunity has come up with a local company. The only problem is they use VB.net. I think they had a legacy codebase in VB originally. I've only coded VB when I absolutely have to, although I can look at VB.net code and roughly work out it's intent. I can't imagine it would be too hard to transfer from c# to vb.net, but are there any major differences between the languages? For example, I'm sure I've read pieces recently about various new MS technologies like Linq and WPF and .net 3.5 language features that are only available in c# at the moment. Did I imagine it, or is it possible to use every feature of .net equally well in either language? Cheers (and I know I'll be joining the dark side). :)
ChrisB ChrisDoesDev[^]
If you're a C# programmer that came from a C++ background, you should be ready for a culture shock. C++ (C#) and VB(.net) programmers are completely different species. VB.net programmers have a different mentality. You'll look at their code, and realize that it's a bunch of garbled, tightly coupled nonsense that begs for a more open architecture approach.
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So I'm currently looking for new work, and the possibility of an interesting opportunity has come up with a local company. The only problem is they use VB.net. I think they had a legacy codebase in VB originally. I've only coded VB when I absolutely have to, although I can look at VB.net code and roughly work out it's intent. I can't imagine it would be too hard to transfer from c# to vb.net, but are there any major differences between the languages? For example, I'm sure I've read pieces recently about various new MS technologies like Linq and WPF and .net 3.5 language features that are only available in c# at the moment. Did I imagine it, or is it possible to use every feature of .net equally well in either language? Cheers (and I know I'll be joining the dark side). :)
ChrisB ChrisDoesDev[^]
I don't often respond to these sorts of vb vs c# discussions since they are mostly the same every time, but I think there are a few points to make here. First of all, the answer to the original questions are 1) syntax and 2) yes. As for some of the "objections" to vb, a few points need to be made. The weird parenthesis that are sometimes there and sometimes not for function calls is a VB6 thing. In vb.net, you must have parenthesis for a function call with arguments. I disagree with the notion that vb has "dumbed down" keywords from c#. Granted they aren't the traditional academic object-oriented terms, but how many of you actually follow the traditional academic approaches to designing and creating real software? In my opinion, the words chosen by the vb team are easier for people of all levels to understand (except for perhaps Friend) as they are more natural expressions of what needs done. (eg: MustInherit tells me that, guess what, I must inherit from this class before I use it, as opposed to abstract which really doesn't set a class of from any of the, by the actual meaning of the word, abstract representations of a modeled object). Don't even get me started on brackets and semicolons. I find brackets to be one of the most difficult to use parts of c style languages. This is especially true when you are looking at methods with deep nesting and or at the end of a class. (Let's see, this for block ends with the 6th to last bracket in that whole list of bracket after bracket after bracket...) Semicolons seem a little superfluous as well. The standard way of writing code is one statement takes up one line and one line has one statement. If I want to do something different, I should have to do the extra work then not every time I do the normal thing. As far as not being able to format your code to your liking, that's just a failure to set the options of the editor appropriately. As for the whole vb programmers are a different species thing, that's a standard stereotype. There is probably some truth to the stereotype (or it wouldn't exist), but that is only because of the type of people that choose to use the language. There is nothing about VB itself that would prevent a person from creating a well-structured, loosely coupled application (which I have done myself with VB).
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Chris Buckett wrote:
Did I imagine it, or is it possible to use every feature of .net equally well in either language?
Almost. Check out http://support.microsoft.com/kb/308470[^]
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage Tech Gossips
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So I'm currently looking for new work, and the possibility of an interesting opportunity has come up with a local company. The only problem is they use VB.net. I think they had a legacy codebase in VB originally. I've only coded VB when I absolutely have to, although I can look at VB.net code and roughly work out it's intent. I can't imagine it would be too hard to transfer from c# to vb.net, but are there any major differences between the languages? For example, I'm sure I've read pieces recently about various new MS technologies like Linq and WPF and .net 3.5 language features that are only available in c# at the moment. Did I imagine it, or is it possible to use every feature of .net equally well in either language? Cheers (and I know I'll be joining the dark side). :)
ChrisB ChrisDoesDev[^]
I program 100% in VB.Net at the moment (let the flaming begin) and I have no problem with it
"Let's face it, the average computer user has the brain of a Spider Monkey." Bill Gates
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So I'm currently looking for new work, and the possibility of an interesting opportunity has come up with a local company. The only problem is they use VB.net. I think they had a legacy codebase in VB originally. I've only coded VB when I absolutely have to, although I can look at VB.net code and roughly work out it's intent. I can't imagine it would be too hard to transfer from c# to vb.net, but are there any major differences between the languages? For example, I'm sure I've read pieces recently about various new MS technologies like Linq and WPF and .net 3.5 language features that are only available in c# at the moment. Did I imagine it, or is it possible to use every feature of .net equally well in either language? Cheers (and I know I'll be joining the dark side). :)
ChrisB ChrisDoesDev[^]
VB.NET is loosely typed, your 'team' will almost certainly use the VisualBasic namespace far too much to write substandard code, etc. If you know C# and learn the VB.NET equivelants, you'll find some things you like ( optional parameters, I like how VB.NET lets you define an event on the method signature ), a lot you hate ( need I say more ? ), but by moving from C# instead of VB6, you'll be the best dev there within 2 weeks.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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I don't often respond to these sorts of vb vs c# discussions since they are mostly the same every time, but I think there are a few points to make here. First of all, the answer to the original questions are 1) syntax and 2) yes. As for some of the "objections" to vb, a few points need to be made. The weird parenthesis that are sometimes there and sometimes not for function calls is a VB6 thing. In vb.net, you must have parenthesis for a function call with arguments. I disagree with the notion that vb has "dumbed down" keywords from c#. Granted they aren't the traditional academic object-oriented terms, but how many of you actually follow the traditional academic approaches to designing and creating real software? In my opinion, the words chosen by the vb team are easier for people of all levels to understand (except for perhaps Friend) as they are more natural expressions of what needs done. (eg: MustInherit tells me that, guess what, I must inherit from this class before I use it, as opposed to abstract which really doesn't set a class of from any of the, by the actual meaning of the word, abstract representations of a modeled object). Don't even get me started on brackets and semicolons. I find brackets to be one of the most difficult to use parts of c style languages. This is especially true when you are looking at methods with deep nesting and or at the end of a class. (Let's see, this for block ends with the 6th to last bracket in that whole list of bracket after bracket after bracket...) Semicolons seem a little superfluous as well. The standard way of writing code is one statement takes up one line and one line has one statement. If I want to do something different, I should have to do the extra work then not every time I do the normal thing. As far as not being able to format your code to your liking, that's just a failure to set the options of the editor appropriately. As for the whole vb programmers are a different species thing, that's a standard stereotype. There is probably some truth to the stereotype (or it wouldn't exist), but that is only because of the type of people that choose to use the language. There is nothing about VB itself that would prevent a person from creating a well-structured, loosely coupled application (which I have done myself with VB).
hgen_banks wrote:
Don't even get me started on brackets and semicolons. I find brackets to be one of the most difficult to use parts of c style languages. This is especially true when you are looking at methods with deep nesting and or at the end of a class.
See, that's just plain wrong. If they are indented right, the only difference between VB and C# is that in C#, you can tell what's a block and what's code.
hgen_banks wrote:
Semicolons seem a little superfluous as well
Yeah, I think they were in C to help the language parser, and have just persisted. There's no reason for them, I agree.
hgen_banks wrote:
If I want to do something different, I should have to do the extra work then not every time I do the normal thing.
That's just silly. Here's one for you. In VB.NET: Dim a as integer = something(42) What does that do ? You don't know. It could be looking up an array, or it could be calling a method. VB is plain hard to read, because of misguided attempts to make it 'simple'. What sucks about it is, even the language can't work it out, this and loose typing can result in some pretty weird bugs.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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Man, this is moronic. They provide .exe package for a for a word/pdf/html document... :doh:
I have observed that even MSDN Example code is given as WinZip Self-Extracting executable.
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage Tech Gossips
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I program 100% in VB.Net at the moment (let the flaming begin) and I have no problem with it
"Let's face it, the average computer user has the brain of a Spider Monkey." Bill Gates
Well the "100%" might be the reason you have no problem with it :) Actually, it is more basically preferences and if a person enjoys the VB syntax then fine, if they don't well, there is no reason to use it. Use what you like if it is your choice and don't care what others think..
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: Linq - One-to-One issues? Latest Tech Blog Post: You got to see this - Seadragon and Photosynth!
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So I'm currently looking for new work, and the possibility of an interesting opportunity has come up with a local company. The only problem is they use VB.net. I think they had a legacy codebase in VB originally. I've only coded VB when I absolutely have to, although I can look at VB.net code and roughly work out it's intent. I can't imagine it would be too hard to transfer from c# to vb.net, but are there any major differences between the languages? For example, I'm sure I've read pieces recently about various new MS technologies like Linq and WPF and .net 3.5 language features that are only available in c# at the moment. Did I imagine it, or is it possible to use every feature of .net equally well in either language? Cheers (and I know I'll be joining the dark side). :)
ChrisB ChrisDoesDev[^]
While I view VB syntax as a plague upon the industry (one of the reasons that stupid, ugly underscore "_" is back because VB syntax is so brain dead it does not understand case --- Opps.. Overflow... Rebooting and regainging control...), others are very devoted to it and the syntax to them is mere beauty. Even though the first langauge I learned was BASIC on a Commodore VIC-20 and did not really think I hit a decent langauge until I found C, VB for me is just a no go. That said, I still have to put up with it, like when I want to modify the DotNetNuke core, which they built with VB.NET or I write some MS Office macro, but I really do not like it. Back in the day, there were issues and many VB apps did not meet the quality nor performance of C/C++ apps along with their runtime. But in today's world of .NET, the languages are basically the same thing but with a different syntax. There are a few differences, but I doubt any would be considered show stoppers. So, if you like VB syntax or could picture yourself dealing with it every day, then no biggy, but if you really do not care for it and like C# or C++, then why bother, just find a job somewhere else that uses the tools you prefer. I mean, it is not like all jobs have switched to VB, there are tons of them for C#. Taking a job using a langauge or technology you really are not into is about like a Windows developer signing up for a Linux job, there is a lot of holes and you have to spend time learning at the cost of the employer. Life is short, get a job you like!
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: Linq - One-to-One issues? Latest Tech Blog Post: You got to see this - Seadragon and Photosynth!