Developer's Age !
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It's funny, I got this post via a link that says: Is programming a "young man's game?" It's neither a young person's game nor a man's game! :) My dad is developer at age 60 and has been in development for nearly 40 years. I'm a developer as well (31 and female). In college, my courses were predomiately male, but in my professional experience, I've worked with as many women as men and of every age group. For the most part, the older developers I've worked with are as highly skilled as the younger. I think the reason many developers choose to switch is that it's not easy to keep up on new technologies along with best practices and the increasing demand for IT services in a given business. Some people get overwhelmed and some thrive. I think it's the nature of the person rather than their age or gender. I personally find technology infectious and can't imagine not doing development.
Brenda
If it makes you feel any better, you are now officially one of the guys...LOL ya ya I tell you, he, he looka like a man!
Yours Truly, The One and Only!
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That's great, I know that there are developers aged at 50-60, but never thought about 70!, however it's good to know about that. Thanks.
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
Kareem, My son is a manager for a company that creates military hardware and software. My grandson is a manager of a call center for a software company. My great-grandson uses his computer to play games. I just write code. Been doing it since 1962. Plan to keep on doing it. I'm 74. JimT
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Thanks, that was helpful, but on the other hand, you will find out that most of corporates promotes old programmers, to be project managers, while they lack the talent of being a manager, and if you check PMBOK ( PMP book of knowledge ), you will find this warning clearly mentioned, because simply speaking this is the biggest mistake most of organization do, however what you spoke about is exclusive to one technology/product, I just speak about programming in general as a career path! Thank you so much for your post.
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
Mmmm you are right, just because someone is promoted to management does not mean they are worthly of the position. But then again, your view of a manager is more one sided since you don't really understand the managers role until you have been there. I once was a manager, it was fun til I was downsized. Then I was in trouble because my skills where not sharp enough to compete in an overcrowded market. It took a while to get back into the main stream. Managers need reliability. That is why most young guys don't get management jobs right off the bat. For a manager, stability, understanding your environment, and the organizational politics is more important than technical savvy. I must ask you a question... Do you program for technologies sake, or do you program to solve a problem? A wise programmer understands the problem and the impact of change before he develops the solution.
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The Rolling Stones ;P are a living proof that you're never too old to be a rock star!!!! Keep on rocking old timer!!! LOL
Yours Truly, The One and Only!
_NightOwl_ wrote:
Keep on rocking old timer!!!
Thanks sonny :) Kids these days...sheesh...
Mark Salsbery Microsoft MVP - Visual C++ "Great job team! Head back to base for debriefing and cocktails."
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Hello, Just wanted to know if there are people out there willing to complete their lives in programming, in other words, how do you plan your career vs. your age, I have seen developers aged at 40s and 50s, do you think that the one should quit development at a certain age and shift to technical consultations or project management, and if you are old, and still into code, does this make you small or big ( I think it varies from one country to another ) ? Please share your experience here !
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
I think there is a perception out there that younger is better. Employers like to see the young turks overdosing on no-doze and Mountain Dew and writing incoherent spaghetti code at three in the morning. :zzz: It's hard to convince many people of the "quality over quantity" aspect of business. Would you rather pay an experienced (i.e. "old") contractor $85 per hour to get the job done right in 1,000 hours, or pay $40 per hour to a less experienced (i.e. "young") programmer to do the job in 1,000 hours three times before he gets it right? We know the obvious answer, but I see the latter rather than the former far, far more often. It's like the old bull and the young bull up on the hill looking down at a field of cows. The young bull says, "Let's run down there and grab us each one of them cows!" To which the old bull replies, "No. Let's walk down and get them all." (language sterilized) btw, I'm 39. From some of these responses, I honestly don't know if that makes me young or old! :confused:
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Hello, Just wanted to know if there are people out there willing to complete their lives in programming, in other words, how do you plan your career vs. your age, I have seen developers aged at 40s and 50s, do you think that the one should quit development at a certain age and shift to technical consultations or project management, and if you are old, and still into code, does this make you small or big ( I think it varies from one country to another ) ? Please share your experience here !
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
Hello Kareem, I can envision programming as a senior citizen from the comfort of my wheelchair! I am 53, have been programming since 1971 and enjoy it very much. I think interest rather than age is the determining factor. I've transitioned from assembly language, which I thought was the ONLY proper programming language for many years, to C to C++ to Cold Fusion to .NET to who knows what...and I know there are many others like me around the world. So we're old and BIG! As for whether one should transition away from day-to-day programming at a certain age, my answer is a resounding NO! That implies that one's technical abilities somehow fade as one ages and that would be ageist and just plain false. What does change as one ages is perhaps the wide-eyed enthusiasm changes to a more practical view, one becomes less tolerant of bad management, etc. Also, remember that while younger programmers tout their new fangled practices and methodologies, we oldsters have seen many trends come and go during our careers. Additionally, most of us follow the industry and remain current. Regards, Edward...
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Hello, Just wanted to know if there are people out there willing to complete their lives in programming, in other words, how do you plan your career vs. your age, I have seen developers aged at 40s and 50s, do you think that the one should quit development at a certain age and shift to technical consultations or project management, and if you are old, and still into code, does this make you small or big ( I think it varies from one country to another ) ? Please share your experience here !
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
As age has increased I seem to have less control over career choices. Some of that is simply due to the evolutionary changes in the job of programming. However a lot is due to the perception of an older person and the reluctance of management to hire someone with many more years of experience than themselves. I am a programmer, have been for more than 40 years, and hopefully will be able to write code up to the day I die. Unfortunately, despite my skill, I find it very difficult to make a living as a programmer. http://freerpad.blogspot.com/[^] http://anamericanprogrammer.blogspot.com/[^] Jim Freer
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It's hard to speak for my dad, but I think what's kept him in the field is his willingness to adapt.
Brenda
Brenda Hanel wrote:
but I think what's kept him in the field is his willingness to adapt.
Thanks Brenda! Good day.
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
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It's a lifetime proposition for me. I'm 62 now and still coding merrily away, and with no plan to retire (who can afford to!) . Wayne Saums
codewizard
Ok Wayne, Let me ask you 2 questions, first how do you keep yourself updated all the time, and what technologies are u using? Second, I would like to know one thing, most of organizations are giving a unique package for the same designation, so how do you feel when you get paid the same amount that a developer at the age of your grandson makes, sorry for the question but I would like to know your answer please? Thanks:)
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
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Hello, Just wanted to know if there are people out there willing to complete their lives in programming, in other words, how do you plan your career vs. your age, I have seen developers aged at 40s and 50s, do you think that the one should quit development at a certain age and shift to technical consultations or project management, and if you are old, and still into code, does this make you small or big ( I think it varies from one country to another ) ? Please share your experience here !
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
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I think there is a perception out there that younger is better. Employers like to see the young turks overdosing on no-doze and Mountain Dew and writing incoherent spaghetti code at three in the morning. :zzz: It's hard to convince many people of the "quality over quantity" aspect of business. Would you rather pay an experienced (i.e. "old") contractor $85 per hour to get the job done right in 1,000 hours, or pay $40 per hour to a less experienced (i.e. "young") programmer to do the job in 1,000 hours three times before he gets it right? We know the obvious answer, but I see the latter rather than the former far, far more often. It's like the old bull and the young bull up on the hill looking down at a field of cows. The young bull says, "Let's run down there and grab us each one of them cows!" To which the old bull replies, "No. Let's walk down and get them all." (language sterilized) btw, I'm 39. From some of these responses, I honestly don't know if that makes me young or old! :confused:
Buddy, I am 29 and I consider myself old :D, it's really a relative matter:doh:
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
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Ok Wayne, Let me ask you 2 questions, first how do you keep yourself updated all the time, and what technologies are u using? Second, I would like to know one thing, most of organizations are giving a unique package for the same designation, so how do you feel when you get paid the same amount that a developer at the age of your grandson makes, sorry for the question but I would like to know your answer please? Thanks:)
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
The best answer is, what I do is no different from what every other programmer does. I just happen to be on the high end of the age scale. As far as what other people make, I don't worry much about that.
codewizard
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Hello Kareem, I can envision programming as a senior citizen from the comfort of my wheelchair! I am 53, have been programming since 1971 and enjoy it very much. I think interest rather than age is the determining factor. I've transitioned from assembly language, which I thought was the ONLY proper programming language for many years, to C to C++ to Cold Fusion to .NET to who knows what...and I know there are many others like me around the world. So we're old and BIG! As for whether one should transition away from day-to-day programming at a certain age, my answer is a resounding NO! That implies that one's technical abilities somehow fade as one ages and that would be ageist and just plain false. What does change as one ages is perhaps the wide-eyed enthusiasm changes to a more practical view, one becomes less tolerant of bad management, etc. Also, remember that while younger programmers tout their new fangled practices and methodologies, we oldsters have seen many trends come and go during our careers. Additionally, most of us follow the industry and remain current. Regards, Edward...
Hello Edward, That's interesting, thank you so much for these lines, also I would like to know about how do you cope with bad management, and what if your manager is 10 years younger than you, also do you get the same pay as young developers having the same designation? Thanks alot :)
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
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I don't think age is a real issue. Once programming is in your blood you will do for your entire life, whether as a career or hobby!
Kareem Shaker wrote:
and if you are somehow old, let's say 35,
Age is just a state of mind! Mike @ 58
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. "George Carlin"
I agree age is a state of mind. Programming is just like any other job..if it pays the bills and you are relatively content why feel pressured to move to something else...like management.
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As age has increased I seem to have less control over career choices. Some of that is simply due to the evolutionary changes in the job of programming. However a lot is due to the perception of an older person and the reluctance of management to hire someone with many more years of experience than themselves. I am a programmer, have been for more than 40 years, and hopefully will be able to write code up to the day I die. Unfortunately, despite my skill, I find it very difficult to make a living as a programmer. http://freerpad.blogspot.com/[^] http://anamericanprogrammer.blogspot.com/[^] Jim Freer
Thanks Jim, I think this is the cost of being a programmer, I am also eager to know if you get the same pay as younger programmers having the designation? BTW, I started to read your blog:)
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
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Kareem, My son is a manager for a company that creates military hardware and software. My grandson is a manager of a call center for a software company. My great-grandson uses his computer to play games. I just write code. Been doing it since 1962. Plan to keep on doing it. I'm 74. JimT
That's great Jim, I would like to know if you are coding just for coding, or you are a member in a development team?
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
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Mmmm you are right, just because someone is promoted to management does not mean they are worthly of the position. But then again, your view of a manager is more one sided since you don't really understand the managers role until you have been there. I once was a manager, it was fun til I was downsized. Then I was in trouble because my skills where not sharp enough to compete in an overcrowded market. It took a while to get back into the main stream. Managers need reliability. That is why most young guys don't get management jobs right off the bat. For a manager, stability, understanding your environment, and the organizational politics is more important than technical savvy. I must ask you a question... Do you program for technologies sake, or do you program to solve a problem? A wise programmer understands the problem and the impact of change before he develops the solution.
Scott McFadden wrote:
I must ask you a question... Do you program for technologies sake, or do you program to solve a problem?
Thanks Scott:), I am not just a developer, I am more aligned to architecture, simply my answer is : "I program to solve the problem in context of the target technologies I am using for the solution" the goal is much more important to me than the problem itself. Enjoyed speaking to you!
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
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The best answer is, what I do is no different from what every other programmer does. I just happen to be on the high end of the age scale. As far as what other people make, I don't worry much about that.
codewizard
Thank you Wayne.
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
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Imagine how much better the company could be, and the more mature it's products, when the average age is upped with a little wisdom of Life XP ;) Arjan Keene (four times eleven) -- modified at 13:21 Monday 16th July, 2007
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Nope. Also 36, and I find that this is around the age when people actually start to give you some respect as a developer. Before it was just "ooh a young Hot Shot - what are they going to screw up today?" With age comes experience, and everyone knows that. It is a matter of preference though... I don't really want to be making web pages in 20 years. I'm considering teaching, and I am starting my own company right now. If I can retire with a solid company making me income and maybe a part-time teaching gig... that will be really cool... and I have 20-30 years to make that happen.
"Quality Software since 1983!"
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