A classless society
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Many societies experience revolution from time to time, and a frequent flier in coffee house conversations where the really cool dissidents hang out is the concept of a classless society. The reasoning goes that if you remove all trappings of status, then all people are equal, and Equality == Good. It's a nice, idealistic little thought, and the people who run the popular espresso hangouts are all for it. Well, at least for the discussion of it, by paying customers. We'll talk about capitalism another day. Folks are pretty bent out of shape lately about the behavior of drive by 1 voters, people who contribute gibberish articles or posts to bump their message count, and many other forms of abuse that have the same goal at heart: the increase of status. Having been a revolutionary in a previous lifetime (I still have the snazzy looking beret), it appears to me that you're all trying to treat the symptom rather than the cause. Eliminate status, and you'll remove the motivations of those who abuse or at least occasionally spank the system. After all, the journey is the reward, so who needs all those evil trappings of status forced upon us by The Establishment? Rise up, citizens, and revolt! Well, those of you who aren't revolting enough already, that is. Remove the voting system, the membership level indicators and all other outward appearances that prevent us from being one big classless society. And as someone with less class than most of you, I'll be happy to go first. You can remove my little gold medal and simply call me Fido. As long as the table scraps are worthwhile, I'll stick around.
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com
If I post a programming question, I want to know if I have an expert answering my question, or a novice. I don't want to spend hours on a suggestion by a novice that might not work when the answer from an expert will probably be right the first time. I think we are focusing on the Lounge, and not the programming boards. I am a regular, but I don't often post answers to programming questions. I read them to gain additional knowledge. People who come to CP for answers deserve to know where the answers are coming from.
_____________________________________________ Flea Market! It's just like...it's just like...A MINI-MALL!
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
and all other outward appearances that prevent us from being one big classless society.
I for one do not want to be in the same classless class as those who shall not be named. The point of a class system is to recognize that there are people different from others. What you suggest is a homogenous melting pot that denies the inequality inherent in all human beings and that, for better or worse, makes life interesting. The problem is not the class system, but the value people assign to different classes. I think it's important to recognize differences between people and to classify those differences, but we naturally tend to place value on those classes that we create around us. So in the end, a classless society denies our differences as a group and a classfull society creates a twisted value system that results in absurd behavior (manifested in its extreme by war). Marc
A+
All your base are belong to me.
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I suggest that everyone in the Atlanta region be put on a tier higher than the rest of the CPians. We deserve it for sure! :-D
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
My latest book : C++/CLI in Action / Amazon.com linkNishant Sivakumar wrote:
I suggest that everyone in the Atlanta region be put on a tier higher than the rest of the CPians. We deserve it for sure!
Ahem! Mr. #2 author. ;P (ah yes, well, I don't have a book. ookkay. That counts for something, I suppose.) Marc
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Wow! For a new member to understand and appreciate this post, you are either super intelligent or Kyle.
Regards Rama Krishna.:rose: I know the CPians are making fun. Let them Enjoy by voting One. - Satips
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If I post a programming question, I want to know if I have an expert answering my question, or a novice. I don't want to spend hours on a suggestion by a novice that might not work when the answer from an expert will probably be right the first time. I think we are focusing on the Lounge, and not the programming boards. I am a regular, but I don't often post answers to programming questions. I read them to gain additional knowledge. People who come to CP for answers deserve to know where the answers are coming from.
_____________________________________________ Flea Market! It's just like...it's just like...A MINI-MALL!
But Leckey, the class system (bronze,silver gold, etc.) doesn't help with that (unless you only count platinum answers). Gold is no indicator of skill, just the ability to click "post message", and/or still being able to log on to that half-decade old account. And even platinum could have achieved the status with 25 really crappy articles.
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
I suggest that everyone in the Atlanta region be put on a tier higher than the rest of the CPians. We deserve it for sure!
Ahem! Mr. #2 author. ;P (ah yes, well, I don't have a book. ookkay. That counts for something, I suppose.) Marc
Not having a book just means you have to use something else when your dining room table is wobbly. :)
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com
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But Leckey, the class system (bronze,silver gold, etc.) doesn't help with that (unless you only count platinum answers). Gold is no indicator of skill, just the ability to click "post message", and/or still being able to log on to that half-decade old account. And even platinum could have achieved the status with 25 really crappy articles.
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But Leckey, the class system (bronze,silver gold, etc.) doesn't help with that (unless you only count platinum answers). Gold is no indicator of skill, just the ability to click "post message", and/or still being able to log on to that half-decade old account. And even platinum could have achieved the status with 25 really crappy articles.
True, but I tend to look at what made up that status...is it mostly posts (like me) or articles? Of course I've been here long enough now to know who 'the experts' are. Maybe have an extra credential that is voted on by top CPians (expert knowledge wise) that basically says, 'we certify this member knows their sh*t.'
_____________________________________________ Flea Market! It's just like...it's just like...A MINI-MALL!
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If I post a programming question, I want to know if I have an expert answering my question, or a novice. I don't want to spend hours on a suggestion by a novice that might not work when the answer from an expert will probably be right the first time. I think we are focusing on the Lounge, and not the programming boards. I am a regular, but I don't often post answers to programming questions. I read them to gain additional knowledge. People who come to CP for answers deserve to know where the answers are coming from.
_____________________________________________ Flea Market! It's just like...it's just like...A MINI-MALL!
leckey wrote:
I don't often post answers to programming questions
But you sure can b*tch slap someone who cares not a jot for the rules. You are certainly one person I'd rather have on my side. You are a fearsome opponent and you don't take crap from anyone. Remind me never to get in your bad books.
Upcoming events: * Glasgow: Mock Objects, SQL Server CLR Integration, Reporting Services, db4o, Dependency Injection with Spring ... "I wouldn't say boo to a goose. I'm not a coward, I just realise that it would be largely pointless." My website
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Unfortunately, I fear that any system based on voting could be abused. Article ratings are frequently distorted in strange ways, and bad answers sometimes get unfathomable 5's while perfectly good ones are down voted. I don't have a suggestion, but wonder if understanding the imperfections of the current system isn't just as suitable a solution as might result from a change...
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This is what happens when you forget the little joke icon on the initial post. :)
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com
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True, but I tend to look at what made up that status...is it mostly posts (like me) or articles? Of course I've been here long enough now to know who 'the experts' are. Maybe have an extra credential that is voted on by top CPians (expert knowledge wise) that basically says, 'we certify this member knows their sh*t.'
_____________________________________________ Flea Market! It's just like...it's just like...A MINI-MALL!
Maybe all we need to to is drop all the non-meaningful status indicators, and retain only MVP, etc.
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If I post a programming question, I want to know if I have an expert answering my question, or a novice. I don't want to spend hours on a suggestion by a novice that might not work when the answer from an expert will probably be right the first time. I think we are focusing on the Lounge, and not the programming boards. I am a regular, but I don't often post answers to programming questions. I read them to gain additional knowledge. People who come to CP for answers deserve to know where the answers are coming from.
_____________________________________________ Flea Market! It's just like...it's just like...A MINI-MALL!
leckey wrote:
I want to know if I have an expert answering my question, or a novice
What makes you think that a CP regular will be an "expert" compared to a CP "newbie". How can you find out whether a person is newbie or expert based on his CP membership level?
Regards Rama Krishna.:rose: I know the CPians are making fun. Let them Enjoy by voting One. - Satips
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leckey wrote:
I don't often post answers to programming questions
But you sure can b*tch slap someone who cares not a jot for the rules. You are certainly one person I'd rather have on my side. You are a fearsome opponent and you don't take crap from anyone. Remind me never to get in your bad books.
Upcoming events: * Glasgow: Mock Objects, SQL Server CLR Integration, Reporting Services, db4o, Dependency Injection with Spring ... "I wouldn't say boo to a goose. I'm not a coward, I just realise that it would be largely pointless." My website
You have a Scotish accent. You could just say something funny and I would probably forgive you. Especially if you quote Izzard. However, those today (about 6 including Satips) who did nothing but repeat the question, "What is the error message?" now have a section of my Pissed Off Library that they will never be forgiven. Right now I hate them more than the Chatty Cathy's. BTW...
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
"I wouldn't say boo to a goose. I'm not a coward, I just realise that it would be largely pointless."
From whom is that quote? Just curious.
_____________________________________________ Flea Market! It's just like...it's just like...A MINI-MALL!
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Many societies experience revolution from time to time, and a frequent flier in coffee house conversations where the really cool dissidents hang out is the concept of a classless society. The reasoning goes that if you remove all trappings of status, then all people are equal, and Equality == Good. It's a nice, idealistic little thought, and the people who run the popular espresso hangouts are all for it. Well, at least for the discussion of it, by paying customers. We'll talk about capitalism another day. Folks are pretty bent out of shape lately about the behavior of drive by 1 voters, people who contribute gibberish articles or posts to bump their message count, and many other forms of abuse that have the same goal at heart: the increase of status. Having been a revolutionary in a previous lifetime (I still have the snazzy looking beret), it appears to me that you're all trying to treat the symptom rather than the cause. Eliminate status, and you'll remove the motivations of those who abuse or at least occasionally spank the system. After all, the journey is the reward, so who needs all those evil trappings of status forced upon us by The Establishment? Rise up, citizens, and revolt! Well, those of you who aren't revolting enough already, that is. Remove the voting system, the membership level indicators and all other outward appearances that prevent us from being one big classless society. And as someone with less class than most of you, I'll be happy to go first. You can remove my little gold medal and simply call me Fido. As long as the table scraps are worthwhile, I'll stick around.
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com
most people in society have no class anyway...
[Insert Witty Sig Here]
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Many societies experience revolution from time to time, and a frequent flier in coffee house conversations where the really cool dissidents hang out is the concept of a classless society. The reasoning goes that if you remove all trappings of status, then all people are equal, and Equality == Good. It's a nice, idealistic little thought, and the people who run the popular espresso hangouts are all for it. Well, at least for the discussion of it, by paying customers. We'll talk about capitalism another day. Folks are pretty bent out of shape lately about the behavior of drive by 1 voters, people who contribute gibberish articles or posts to bump their message count, and many other forms of abuse that have the same goal at heart: the increase of status. Having been a revolutionary in a previous lifetime (I still have the snazzy looking beret), it appears to me that you're all trying to treat the symptom rather than the cause. Eliminate status, and you'll remove the motivations of those who abuse or at least occasionally spank the system. After all, the journey is the reward, so who needs all those evil trappings of status forced upon us by The Establishment? Rise up, citizens, and revolt! Well, those of you who aren't revolting enough already, that is. Remove the voting system, the membership level indicators and all other outward appearances that prevent us from being one big classless society. And as someone with less class than most of you, I'll be happy to go first. You can remove my little gold medal and simply call me Fido. As long as the table scraps are worthwhile, I'll stick around.
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com
Does that mean you advocate the separation of the those that have class from those that have no class?
Why is common sense not common? Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level where they are an expert. Sometimes it takes a lot of work to be lazy
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leckey wrote:
I want to know if I have an expert answering my question, or a novice
What makes you think that a CP regular will be an "expert" compared to a CP "newbie". How can you find out whether a person is newbie or expert based on his CP membership level?
Regards Rama Krishna.:rose: I know the CPians are making fun. Let them Enjoy by voting One. - Satips
I said in a later post that maybe the gurus of CP could give another credential like a Microsoft MVP. The CP 'board' would vote and give the status to those who have proven to be experts in their language(s). Anyone could apply to get the credential including newbies, but some proof would have to be offered by newbies. When I said expert/novice that was really meant independent of CP status, just knowledge status. But I realize a new person coming in might have difficulty proving their worth right off the bat unless they posted several worthy articles/helped in the programming forums.
_____________________________________________ Flea Market! It's just like...it's just like...A MINI-MALL!
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Maybe all we need to to is drop all the non-meaningful status indicators, and retain only MVP, etc.
What I really want is those who are worthy to get their credit, those who need help know they can rely on those who are worthy, and those who are worthy have the ability to remove the idiots.
_____________________________________________ Flea Market! It's just like...it's just like...A MINI-MALL!
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If I post a programming question, I want to know if I have an expert answering my question, or a novice. I don't want to spend hours on a suggestion by a novice that might not work when the answer from an expert will probably be right the first time. I think we are focusing on the Lounge, and not the programming boards. I am a regular, but I don't often post answers to programming questions. I read them to gain additional knowledge. People who come to CP for answers deserve to know where the answers are coming from.
_____________________________________________ Flea Market! It's just like...it's just like...A MINI-MALL!
leckey wrote:
I think we are focusing on the Lounge, and not the programming boards. I am a regular, but I don't often post answers to programming questions. I read them to gain additional knowledge. People who come to CP for answers deserve to know where the answers are coming from.
Well... not to toss a wrench in the works. But given who I am and my experience, I have to say there is no way anyone can verify the work I have done and if I am an expert in everything. I still make dumb mistakes at times, just like everyone else, so I can easily give bad advice too, or overcomplicate an answer because I am thinking too hard, so sometimes a newbie answer can help you too. But in the end, does my post count verify I am who I say I am, or do what I do, or even live where I live? That is a tough one. Sometimes you really have to think on the answers from anyone, and ignore even the so called experts on occasions. :) I never was good at being a has-been drip under pressure anyhow. :)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Does that mean you advocate the separation of the those that have class from those that have no class?
Why is common sense not common? Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level where they are an expert. Sometimes it takes a lot of work to be lazy