A classless society
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If I post a programming question, I want to know if I have an expert answering my question, or a novice. I don't want to spend hours on a suggestion by a novice that might not work when the answer from an expert will probably be right the first time. I think we are focusing on the Lounge, and not the programming boards. I am a regular, but I don't often post answers to programming questions. I read them to gain additional knowledge. People who come to CP for answers deserve to know where the answers are coming from.
_____________________________________________ Flea Market! It's just like...it's just like...A MINI-MALL!
leckey wrote:
I want to know if I have an expert answering my question, or a novice
What makes you think that a CP regular will be an "expert" compared to a CP "newbie". How can you find out whether a person is newbie or expert based on his CP membership level?
Regards Rama Krishna.:rose: I know the CPians are making fun. Let them Enjoy by voting One. - Satips
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leckey wrote:
I don't often post answers to programming questions
But you sure can b*tch slap someone who cares not a jot for the rules. You are certainly one person I'd rather have on my side. You are a fearsome opponent and you don't take crap from anyone. Remind me never to get in your bad books.
Upcoming events: * Glasgow: Mock Objects, SQL Server CLR Integration, Reporting Services, db4o, Dependency Injection with Spring ... "I wouldn't say boo to a goose. I'm not a coward, I just realise that it would be largely pointless." My website
You have a Scotish accent. You could just say something funny and I would probably forgive you. Especially if you quote Izzard. However, those today (about 6 including Satips) who did nothing but repeat the question, "What is the error message?" now have a section of my Pissed Off Library that they will never be forgiven. Right now I hate them more than the Chatty Cathy's. BTW...
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
"I wouldn't say boo to a goose. I'm not a coward, I just realise that it would be largely pointless."
From whom is that quote? Just curious.
_____________________________________________ Flea Market! It's just like...it's just like...A MINI-MALL!
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Many societies experience revolution from time to time, and a frequent flier in coffee house conversations where the really cool dissidents hang out is the concept of a classless society. The reasoning goes that if you remove all trappings of status, then all people are equal, and Equality == Good. It's a nice, idealistic little thought, and the people who run the popular espresso hangouts are all for it. Well, at least for the discussion of it, by paying customers. We'll talk about capitalism another day. Folks are pretty bent out of shape lately about the behavior of drive by 1 voters, people who contribute gibberish articles or posts to bump their message count, and many other forms of abuse that have the same goal at heart: the increase of status. Having been a revolutionary in a previous lifetime (I still have the snazzy looking beret), it appears to me that you're all trying to treat the symptom rather than the cause. Eliminate status, and you'll remove the motivations of those who abuse or at least occasionally spank the system. After all, the journey is the reward, so who needs all those evil trappings of status forced upon us by The Establishment? Rise up, citizens, and revolt! Well, those of you who aren't revolting enough already, that is. Remove the voting system, the membership level indicators and all other outward appearances that prevent us from being one big classless society. And as someone with less class than most of you, I'll be happy to go first. You can remove my little gold medal and simply call me Fido. As long as the table scraps are worthwhile, I'll stick around.
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com
most people in society have no class anyway...
[Insert Witty Sig Here]
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Many societies experience revolution from time to time, and a frequent flier in coffee house conversations where the really cool dissidents hang out is the concept of a classless society. The reasoning goes that if you remove all trappings of status, then all people are equal, and Equality == Good. It's a nice, idealistic little thought, and the people who run the popular espresso hangouts are all for it. Well, at least for the discussion of it, by paying customers. We'll talk about capitalism another day. Folks are pretty bent out of shape lately about the behavior of drive by 1 voters, people who contribute gibberish articles or posts to bump their message count, and many other forms of abuse that have the same goal at heart: the increase of status. Having been a revolutionary in a previous lifetime (I still have the snazzy looking beret), it appears to me that you're all trying to treat the symptom rather than the cause. Eliminate status, and you'll remove the motivations of those who abuse or at least occasionally spank the system. After all, the journey is the reward, so who needs all those evil trappings of status forced upon us by The Establishment? Rise up, citizens, and revolt! Well, those of you who aren't revolting enough already, that is. Remove the voting system, the membership level indicators and all other outward appearances that prevent us from being one big classless society. And as someone with less class than most of you, I'll be happy to go first. You can remove my little gold medal and simply call me Fido. As long as the table scraps are worthwhile, I'll stick around.
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com
Does that mean you advocate the separation of the those that have class from those that have no class?
Why is common sense not common? Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level where they are an expert. Sometimes it takes a lot of work to be lazy
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leckey wrote:
I want to know if I have an expert answering my question, or a novice
What makes you think that a CP regular will be an "expert" compared to a CP "newbie". How can you find out whether a person is newbie or expert based on his CP membership level?
Regards Rama Krishna.:rose: I know the CPians are making fun. Let them Enjoy by voting One. - Satips
I said in a later post that maybe the gurus of CP could give another credential like a Microsoft MVP. The CP 'board' would vote and give the status to those who have proven to be experts in their language(s). Anyone could apply to get the credential including newbies, but some proof would have to be offered by newbies. When I said expert/novice that was really meant independent of CP status, just knowledge status. But I realize a new person coming in might have difficulty proving their worth right off the bat unless they posted several worthy articles/helped in the programming forums.
_____________________________________________ Flea Market! It's just like...it's just like...A MINI-MALL!
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Maybe all we need to to is drop all the non-meaningful status indicators, and retain only MVP, etc.
What I really want is those who are worthy to get their credit, those who need help know they can rely on those who are worthy, and those who are worthy have the ability to remove the idiots.
_____________________________________________ Flea Market! It's just like...it's just like...A MINI-MALL!
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If I post a programming question, I want to know if I have an expert answering my question, or a novice. I don't want to spend hours on a suggestion by a novice that might not work when the answer from an expert will probably be right the first time. I think we are focusing on the Lounge, and not the programming boards. I am a regular, but I don't often post answers to programming questions. I read them to gain additional knowledge. People who come to CP for answers deserve to know where the answers are coming from.
_____________________________________________ Flea Market! It's just like...it's just like...A MINI-MALL!
leckey wrote:
I think we are focusing on the Lounge, and not the programming boards. I am a regular, but I don't often post answers to programming questions. I read them to gain additional knowledge. People who come to CP for answers deserve to know where the answers are coming from.
Well... not to toss a wrench in the works. But given who I am and my experience, I have to say there is no way anyone can verify the work I have done and if I am an expert in everything. I still make dumb mistakes at times, just like everyone else, so I can easily give bad advice too, or overcomplicate an answer because I am thinking too hard, so sometimes a newbie answer can help you too. But in the end, does my post count verify I am who I say I am, or do what I do, or even live where I live? That is a tough one. Sometimes you really have to think on the answers from anyone, and ignore even the so called experts on occasions. :) I never was good at being a has-been drip under pressure anyhow. :)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Does that mean you advocate the separation of the those that have class from those that have no class?
Why is common sense not common? Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level where they are an expert. Sometimes it takes a lot of work to be lazy
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Chris Maunder wrote:
Hence a move to a more representative award system
Hey Chris, I think the algorithm you use to determine the annual MVPs based on articles and posts could be expanded to include status too. I mean the same logic could be repackaged to calculate a member's status - except it will work over his entire period of membership rather than just the previous 12 months.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
My latest book : C++/CLI in Action / Amazon.com link -
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
I suggest that everyone in the Atlanta region be put on a tier higher than the rest of the CPians. We deserve it for sure!
Ahem! Mr. #2 author. ;P (ah yes, well, I don't have a book. ookkay. That counts for something, I suppose.) Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
Ahem! Mr. #2 author.
Yeah, rub it in Marc! :)
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
My latest book : C++/CLI in Action / Amazon.com link -
leckey wrote:
I think we are focusing on the Lounge, and not the programming boards. I am a regular, but I don't often post answers to programming questions. I read them to gain additional knowledge. People who come to CP for answers deserve to know where the answers are coming from.
Well... not to toss a wrench in the works. But given who I am and my experience, I have to say there is no way anyone can verify the work I have done and if I am an expert in everything. I still make dumb mistakes at times, just like everyone else, so I can easily give bad advice too, or overcomplicate an answer because I am thinking too hard, so sometimes a newbie answer can help you too. But in the end, does my post count verify I am who I say I am, or do what I do, or even live where I live? That is a tough one. Sometimes you really have to think on the answers from anyone, and ignore even the so called experts on occasions. :) I never was good at being a has-been drip under pressure anyhow. :)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Wes Aday wrote:
those that have class from those that have no class?
Poor visual basic then... I thought that it was clear enough... :sigh:
Joan Murt wrote:
visual basic
Lol I was just about to modify my post to say something like, "I work all the time with classless people, I don't want to hand out on CP with a bunch of classless people too...." :-)
Why is common sense not common? Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level where they are an expert. Sometimes it takes a lot of work to be lazy
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Does that mean you advocate the separation of the those that have class from those that have no class?
Why is common sense not common? Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level where they are an expert. Sometimes it takes a lot of work to be lazy
Wes Aday wrote:
Does that mean you advocate the separation of the those that have class from those that have no class?
I have no class, but I love to share class with those who have class to enjoy their class so I don't need class. Classically Classy huh?
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Many societies experience revolution from time to time, and a frequent flier in coffee house conversations where the really cool dissidents hang out is the concept of a classless society. The reasoning goes that if you remove all trappings of status, then all people are equal, and Equality == Good. It's a nice, idealistic little thought, and the people who run the popular espresso hangouts are all for it. Well, at least for the discussion of it, by paying customers. We'll talk about capitalism another day. Folks are pretty bent out of shape lately about the behavior of drive by 1 voters, people who contribute gibberish articles or posts to bump their message count, and many other forms of abuse that have the same goal at heart: the increase of status. Having been a revolutionary in a previous lifetime (I still have the snazzy looking beret), it appears to me that you're all trying to treat the symptom rather than the cause. Eliminate status, and you'll remove the motivations of those who abuse or at least occasionally spank the system. After all, the journey is the reward, so who needs all those evil trappings of status forced upon us by The Establishment? Rise up, citizens, and revolt! Well, those of you who aren't revolting enough already, that is. Remove the voting system, the membership level indicators and all other outward appearances that prevent us from being one big classless society. And as someone with less class than most of you, I'll be happy to go first. You can remove my little gold medal and simply call me Fido. As long as the table scraps are worthwhile, I'll stick around.
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com
Woof, woof!:-D
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
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Many societies experience revolution from time to time, and a frequent flier in coffee house conversations where the really cool dissidents hang out is the concept of a classless society. The reasoning goes that if you remove all trappings of status, then all people are equal, and Equality == Good. It's a nice, idealistic little thought, and the people who run the popular espresso hangouts are all for it. Well, at least for the discussion of it, by paying customers. We'll talk about capitalism another day. Folks are pretty bent out of shape lately about the behavior of drive by 1 voters, people who contribute gibberish articles or posts to bump their message count, and many other forms of abuse that have the same goal at heart: the increase of status. Having been a revolutionary in a previous lifetime (I still have the snazzy looking beret), it appears to me that you're all trying to treat the symptom rather than the cause. Eliminate status, and you'll remove the motivations of those who abuse or at least occasionally spank the system. After all, the journey is the reward, so who needs all those evil trappings of status forced upon us by The Establishment? Rise up, citizens, and revolt! Well, those of you who aren't revolting enough already, that is. Remove the voting system, the membership level indicators and all other outward appearances that prevent us from being one big classless society. And as someone with less class than most of you, I'll be happy to go first. You can remove my little gold medal and simply call me Fido. As long as the table scraps are worthwhile, I'll stick around.
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com
While we're at it, lets remove those pesky nicknames and just be known by numbers - that's truly class free. Of course, I'll be number 1.
Please visit http://www.readytogiveup.com/ and do something special today. Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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I was thinking more along the lines if someone is published, hold any offices in tech organizations etc. Things that could be googled.
_____________________________________________ Flea Market! It's just like...it's just like...A MINI-MALL!
leckey wrote:
Things that could be googled
I used to be googled, until changes at work required a name change. If you remember who I am, I can still be googled. My projects can be googled, though very limited information is found on them because most of the information is not published. I could write an article and I have debated on it a few times, but the issue is writing it and waiting 30 days plus for company and ... other ... reviews, plus any corrections and resubmissions. The goal for one of those reviewing has often been put, "if you say anything that someone doesn't already know, that should not be said." hmmmm... that pretty much limits public information doesn't it. If you don't already know it, I can't write about it. Now they do get more flexible at times, but judging when that will be is difficult.... so again... does that mean all that I say in a programming forum should be ignored. And on the other hand. Assuming I am an expert, does that mean I will not overlook a simple way of solving a problem, and that another person might not have a "better" answer? does it mean I won't overcomplicate your solution? 20+ years of experience and too long in R&D often does mean I overcomplicate an answer. Sometimes that is good, sometimes bad. I am just saying sometimes you have to weigh the answer no matter who it is, examine all answers as possibilities, and weigh the pros and cons of each. Sure perhaps a little preference to the regulars, but I would not weigh out anyone. :) that and I am almost always long-winded... ;)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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True, but I tend to look at what made up that status...is it mostly posts (like me) or articles? Of course I've been here long enough now to know who 'the experts' are. Maybe have an extra credential that is voted on by top CPians (expert knowledge wise) that basically says, 'we certify this member knows their sh*t.'
_____________________________________________ Flea Market! It's just like...it's just like...A MINI-MALL!
leckey wrote:
an extra credential that is voted on by top CPians (expert knowledge wise) that basically says, 'we certify this member knows their sh*t.'
It could be called "The Norris".
Please visit http://www.readytogiveup.com/ and do something special today. Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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leckey wrote:
Things that could be googled
I used to be googled, until changes at work required a name change. If you remember who I am, I can still be googled. My projects can be googled, though very limited information is found on them because most of the information is not published. I could write an article and I have debated on it a few times, but the issue is writing it and waiting 30 days plus for company and ... other ... reviews, plus any corrections and resubmissions. The goal for one of those reviewing has often been put, "if you say anything that someone doesn't already know, that should not be said." hmmmm... that pretty much limits public information doesn't it. If you don't already know it, I can't write about it. Now they do get more flexible at times, but judging when that will be is difficult.... so again... does that mean all that I say in a programming forum should be ignored. And on the other hand. Assuming I am an expert, does that mean I will not overlook a simple way of solving a problem, and that another person might not have a "better" answer? does it mean I won't overcomplicate your solution? 20+ years of experience and too long in R&D often does mean I overcomplicate an answer. Sometimes that is good, sometimes bad. I am just saying sometimes you have to weigh the answer no matter who it is, examine all answers as possibilities, and weigh the pros and cons of each. Sure perhaps a little preference to the regulars, but I would not weigh out anyone. :) that and I am almost always long-winded... ;)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
I agree that experience does not always lead to the best answer. I am just thinking that if I needed help, and needed it quickly, who would I trust more off the bat? Probably the expert. If I felt it was too complicated, then maybe look at other answers. It's kind of like politics. If I ask the question, 'how do we solve the problem with immigration?' and I ask this to five people and I have no idea what their background is, why should I believe one person over another that it is the best answer? If I found out one person was a state governor and another a janitor, chances are I am going to believe the governor. The janitor might have a great idea, but based on experience I am going to first look at what the governor has to say.
_____________________________________________ Flea Market! It's just like...it's just like...A MINI-MALL!
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I agree that experience does not always lead to the best answer. I am just thinking that if I needed help, and needed it quickly, who would I trust more off the bat? Probably the expert. If I felt it was too complicated, then maybe look at other answers. It's kind of like politics. If I ask the question, 'how do we solve the problem with immigration?' and I ask this to five people and I have no idea what their background is, why should I believe one person over another that it is the best answer? If I found out one person was a state governor and another a janitor, chances are I am going to believe the governor. The janitor might have a great idea, but based on experience I am going to first look at what the governor has to say.
_____________________________________________ Flea Market! It's just like...it's just like...A MINI-MALL!
leckey wrote:
The janitor might have a great idea, but based on experience I am going to first look at what the governor has to say.
Ah - so you're going to base your answer on what a liar has to say. [Disclaimer]This post in no way indicates a view that politicians have been known to stretch the truth until it cries Uncle and hides in the corner when they walk into the room. Oh okay then, it does.[/Disclaimer]
Please visit http://www.readytogiveup.com/ and do something special today. Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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I agree that experience does not always lead to the best answer. I am just thinking that if I needed help, and needed it quickly, who would I trust more off the bat? Probably the expert. If I felt it was too complicated, then maybe look at other answers. It's kind of like politics. If I ask the question, 'how do we solve the problem with immigration?' and I ask this to five people and I have no idea what their background is, why should I believe one person over another that it is the best answer? If I found out one person was a state governor and another a janitor, chances are I am going to believe the governor. The janitor might have a great idea, but based on experience I am going to first look at what the governor has to say.
_____________________________________________ Flea Market! It's just like...it's just like...A MINI-MALL!
leckey wrote:
If I found out one person was a state governor and another a janitor, chances are I am going to believe the governor.
I may not believe the Janitor... but I would trust a politician as far as I can throw their armored mercedes. I have met far too many of them in my life. :) speaking of which... one is supposed to have gotten back to me and hasn't. I haven't exactly gone prodding him for information, but I am curious if they selected someone else to do the software for the new space-port.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
