Seagate to Stop Making IDE Drives
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Then why aren't SATA drives any faster than IDE drives?
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001sustained bandwidth is limited by mechanical properties, for a 7200RPM drive roughly ATA66. SATA2.0 is 2.25x faster than ATA133 until you fill/flush the drives onboard cache. Saving your MS word document is faster even if your code build isn't. Other benefits include the smaller cables being easier to route without obstructing airflow, and being able to use the same phyiscal interface for desktop and laptop HDs. Presumably MP3 player drives would use it as well, but I've never actually seen one disassembled. IIRC the same physical interface is also used for SAS (serial attached scsi), again simplifying the hardware design. The hardware connectors allow hotswapping although outside of scsi land it's rarely if ever implemented on the hardware side.
-- You have to explain to them [VB coders] what you mean by "typed". their first response is likely to be something like, "Of course my code is typed. Do you think i magically project it onto the screen with the power of my mind?" --- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
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Then why aren't SATA drives any faster than IDE drives?
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001They are faster, the newer EIDE drives are 133MBPS while SATA drives are 150MBPS. The earlier EIDE drives just about matched SATA in performance, but faster BUS speeds are enabling the SATA drive's performance to become visible. It also depends on the RPM of the drive and MB's of onboard cache. SATA also allows Native Command Queuing[^] and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tagged_Command_Queuing[^]. I hope this helps :)
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sustained bandwidth is limited by mechanical properties, for a 7200RPM drive roughly ATA66. SATA2.0 is 2.25x faster than ATA133 until you fill/flush the drives onboard cache. Saving your MS word document is faster even if your code build isn't. Other benefits include the smaller cables being easier to route without obstructing airflow, and being able to use the same phyiscal interface for desktop and laptop HDs. Presumably MP3 player drives would use it as well, but I've never actually seen one disassembled. IIRC the same physical interface is also used for SAS (serial attached scsi), again simplifying the hardware design. The hardware connectors allow hotswapping although outside of scsi land it's rarely if ever implemented on the hardware side.
-- You have to explain to them [VB coders] what you mean by "typed". their first response is likely to be something like, "Of course my code is typed. Do you think i magically project it onto the screen with the power of my mind?" --- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
dan neely wrote:
sustained bandwidth is limited by mechanical properties, for a 7200RPM drive roughly ATA66
As I replied in the thread above there are faster hard drives now. My Samsung HD321KJ has top speed of about 87MB/s. Seagate 7200.11 is supposed to top out at 100MB/s, and I expect new Samsung F1 series with 333GB platters will have top speed of 110-115MB/s
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http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070725-seagate-plans-to-stop-manufacturing-ide-drives-by-the-end-of-2007.html[^] The beginning of the end for IDE. :^) Does anyone know the technical reasons for how a serial technology overtook the parallel technology? I mean, the whole reason they invented the parallel printer port was that the serial ports were not fast enough, right? So I'm interested to learn why a serial interface was chosen for the next generation hard drive interface.
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
The technology has reached the point where serial comms can be pushed faster the parallel comms. Not sure about all the signalling etc... Also the Wide 40 conductor cables aren't necessary anymore, thereby reducing cost. That will increase airflow around the drive. Less power consumption since you are not driving as many signals. SATA standard was written to allow for many more drives and higher speeds. They couldn't do that for PATA unless the cabling was changed significantly. Well if you're doing that, then go the whole distance and come up with a new standard altogether. Also I read through many of these posts and as far as your laptop goes, well, this technology shutdown of PATA drives WILL force you into a new computer. All boats are lifted by this one move. You cannot factor out the "make them upgrade" thoughts that permeate the hardware industry. Vista can't get people to upgrade, but the hardware will.
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Then why aren't SATA drives any faster than IDE drives?
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001Burst (i.e. reading from disk cache) is.
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighist -
Bastards. Laptop hard drives die often and there isn't a mini IDE to sATA adapter that i know of, so i guess i'll have to stick with WD for the next replacement:sigh: Roswell:(
"Angelinos -- excuse me. There will be civility today."
Antonio VillaRaigosa
City Mayor, Los Angeles, CARoswellNX wrote:
Bastards. Laptop hard drives die often and there isn't a mini IDE to sATA adapter that i know of, so i guess i'll have to stick with WD for the next replacement Roswell
Well said!
Andrew C. Eisenberg Nashville, TN, USA (a.k.a. Music City USA) (Yes Virginia, there are rock and roll stations in Nashville! :laugh:)
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The technology has reached the point where serial comms can be pushed faster the parallel comms. Not sure about all the signalling etc... Also the Wide 40 conductor cables aren't necessary anymore, thereby reducing cost. That will increase airflow around the drive. Less power consumption since you are not driving as many signals. SATA standard was written to allow for many more drives and higher speeds. They couldn't do that for PATA unless the cabling was changed significantly. Well if you're doing that, then go the whole distance and come up with a new standard altogether. Also I read through many of these posts and as far as your laptop goes, well, this technology shutdown of PATA drives WILL force you into a new computer. All boats are lifted by this one move. You cannot factor out the "make them upgrade" thoughts that permeate the hardware industry. Vista can't get people to upgrade, but the hardware will.
MajorTom123 wrote:
Also I read through many of these posts and as far as your laptop goes, well, this technology shutdown of PATA drives WILL force you into a new computer. All boats are lifted by this one move. You cannot factor out the "make them upgrade" thoughts that permeate the hardware industry. Vista can't get people to upgrade, but the hardware will.
Well, they really aren't forcing you to make an upgrade as they aren't holding a gun to my head. But, they do make it harder and harder to stay with older, but still (mostly) functional hardware. At this point in time, I only plan on getting a new machine if an application that I "must have" won't run on my "old" hardware or like has been mentioned here, it's becomes hard to impossible to replace a broken part. This is because my existing computers, though at least 5 years old, do everything I need them to do. The short technology lifespans may be good for manufacturers, but it is a tremendous waste of resources. (e.g. Oil, copper, silver, gold, steel, aluminum, etc.) And before anyone asks, I am not an environmental activist. But, I simply hate to see waste of finite resources.
Andrew C. Eisenberg Nashville, TN, USA (a.k.a. Music City USA) (Yes Virginia, there are rock and roll stations in Nashville! :laugh:)
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MajorTom123 wrote:
Also I read through many of these posts and as far as your laptop goes, well, this technology shutdown of PATA drives WILL force you into a new computer. All boats are lifted by this one move. You cannot factor out the "make them upgrade" thoughts that permeate the hardware industry. Vista can't get people to upgrade, but the hardware will.
Well, they really aren't forcing you to make an upgrade as they aren't holding a gun to my head. But, they do make it harder and harder to stay with older, but still (mostly) functional hardware. At this point in time, I only plan on getting a new machine if an application that I "must have" won't run on my "old" hardware or like has been mentioned here, it's becomes hard to impossible to replace a broken part. This is because my existing computers, though at least 5 years old, do everything I need them to do. The short technology lifespans may be good for manufacturers, but it is a tremendous waste of resources. (e.g. Oil, copper, silver, gold, steel, aluminum, etc.) And before anyone asks, I am not an environmental activist. But, I simply hate to see waste of finite resources.
Andrew C. Eisenberg Nashville, TN, USA (a.k.a. Music City USA) (Yes Virginia, there are rock and roll stations in Nashville! :laugh:)
Andrew, I agree with your sentiments, but since most governments are not communist, we'll have to have the market force this issue. In our county we have a computer scrap recycling drop off on Saturday. I'm going there to drop off the laser printer that just died. So some of these things are starting to help recycle but we're far from the end. i agree about the "old" computer does what it needs to comment. I too have older equipment that I use everyday. However, I'm about to make the jump to dual or quad core to get that speed boost again. some of this bloatware is getting very slow each time MS updates the OS or the software updates itself. Its like programmers are saying more is better, never get rid of the old nor make it better and faster. Hey, just like Congress and its entitlement programs. I'm not a tree hugger either, but if we can stave off the landfills filling up, then I'm all for it. Cheers.
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The technology has reached the point where serial comms can be pushed faster the parallel comms. Not sure about all the signalling etc... Also the Wide 40 conductor cables aren't necessary anymore, thereby reducing cost. That will increase airflow around the drive. Less power consumption since you are not driving as many signals. SATA standard was written to allow for many more drives and higher speeds. They couldn't do that for PATA unless the cabling was changed significantly. Well if you're doing that, then go the whole distance and come up with a new standard altogether. Also I read through many of these posts and as far as your laptop goes, well, this technology shutdown of PATA drives WILL force you into a new computer. All boats are lifted by this one move. You cannot factor out the "make them upgrade" thoughts that permeate the hardware industry. Vista can't get people to upgrade, but the hardware will.
MajorTom123 wrote:
Also I read through many of these posts and as far as your laptop goes, well, this technology shutdown of PATA drives WILL force you into a new computer. All boats are lifted by this one move. You cannot factor out the "make them upgrade" thoughts that permeate the hardware industry. Vista can't get people to upgrade, but the hardware will.
Upgade? No, it wont. Most people have no idea as to what's inside a computer, so they won't know the difference apart from some obsure acronym on the spec sheet, and a lot of the hard drive sales will still be thru repair shops, becuase the shops aren't gonna be turning people away for not having the latest and the greatest hardware. If Toshiba will be the only manufacturer left interested in making the 2.5 PATA drives, that will "toothpaste" the sales to them. Remember, there are still low-end laptops out there being sold RIGHT NOW that only offer PATA. You can't just tell a guy that bought one a month ago "Hey, toss that thing in the trash, it's obsolete". He'll most likely give you a weird look, and for a good reason. The equation is pretty simple. It's the cost of parts plus the cost of labor plus a surcharge or some sort, and it still comes out chaper than buying a whole new machine. I do some computer repairs on the side and what happens in a case like this, is people will come in and tell me that their laptop computer is making a funny clicking noise and doesn't get past a black screen. They don't care what is wrong, they just want it fixed. I take a look at it, and sure, the HDD is done. I ask them what size and price range they are comfortable with and usually get one from a box here, and if i'm out, i reorder. If in this case i can't reorder Seagates, i'll look at one step down from that. Roswell:)
"Angelinos -- excuse me. There will be civility today."
Antonio VillaRaigosa
City Mayor, Los Angeles, CA -
MajorTom123 wrote:
Also I read through many of these posts and as far as your laptop goes, well, this technology shutdown of PATA drives WILL force you into a new computer. All boats are lifted by this one move. You cannot factor out the "make them upgrade" thoughts that permeate the hardware industry. Vista can't get people to upgrade, but the hardware will.
Upgade? No, it wont. Most people have no idea as to what's inside a computer, so they won't know the difference apart from some obsure acronym on the spec sheet, and a lot of the hard drive sales will still be thru repair shops, becuase the shops aren't gonna be turning people away for not having the latest and the greatest hardware. If Toshiba will be the only manufacturer left interested in making the 2.5 PATA drives, that will "toothpaste" the sales to them. Remember, there are still low-end laptops out there being sold RIGHT NOW that only offer PATA. You can't just tell a guy that bought one a month ago "Hey, toss that thing in the trash, it's obsolete". He'll most likely give you a weird look, and for a good reason. The equation is pretty simple. It's the cost of parts plus the cost of labor plus a surcharge or some sort, and it still comes out chaper than buying a whole new machine. I do some computer repairs on the side and what happens in a case like this, is people will come in and tell me that their laptop computer is making a funny clicking noise and doesn't get past a black screen. They don't care what is wrong, they just want it fixed. I take a look at it, and sure, the HDD is done. I ask them what size and price range they are comfortable with and usually get one from a box here, and if i'm out, i reorder. If in this case i can't reorder Seagates, i'll look at one step down from that. Roswell:)
"Angelinos -- excuse me. There will be civility today."
Antonio VillaRaigosa
City Mayor, Los Angeles, CARoswellNX, You are correct, nearly all users have no clue what's inside. And yes they will still push out PATA right now. But you have to agree this may make many HD mfgs shutdown their lines as soon as they can. When that happens there are no more hard drives except what's pulled from ailing computers. By "upgrade" I mean in user-speak, they'll buy a whole new system. I've had friends who did not consult with me, went to Best Buy, somehow got hooked up with a pusher (Best Buy calls them sales people) and they ended up buying a whole new computer because theirs was slowing down and sometimes locking up. Not smart of them, but yeah they are just users and want it fixed. The "fix" for them is to buy a whole new box. At least your friends consult you before being talked into something they don't need. I don't even charge friends to upgrade their system. Oh well, maybe if I did they would come to me more. Go figure.
