To break the monotony....a religious discusion!
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That's just pathetic. For me personally, I'd prefer the school NOT pray and NOT have any sort of RI, on the basis that I'd rather take responsibility for that, than have the school teach my kids something that perhaps I don't agree with. But, we're about to send our kids to a Catholic school, because they are the only ones with the facilities to help my son, and I'll just have to play it by ear. Either way, a moment of silence is about the most innocent thing I can think of. We have a moment of silence on remembrance day, do you guys have that ? Will they ban that, too ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
we're about to send our kids to a Catholic school
So you don't believe in God or any god but yet you are sending your son to a Catholic school?:confused:
God Bless, Jason
God doesn't believe in atheist but He still loves them. -
What I don't understand is how far can the Freedom of Religion be stretched? People don't want to hear about the Ten Commandments, so they sue get them taking out. People don't want to have a time of pray to God(I am stating the Christian God), so they sue get that changed to a moment of silence. Okay, here is where I find a big problem(among others). If you take out anything that resembles pray in any way to any deity, then does that not invade on Freedom of Religion? What do the Buddhist, Islamics, and other religions think about this? Where does ones right to be offended over step my right to my religious beliefs? What would happen if every time the ACLU files suit against something Christian, a Christian organization counter-suits for invasion on Freedom of Religion? When is to far to far and who says that its to far?
God Bless, Jason
God doesn't believe in atheist but He still loves them.jason_lakewhitney wrote:
What I don't understand is how far can the Freedom of Religion be stretched?
What does this have to do with freedom of religion? You can pray any time you want! You have the freedom to pray before class starts, during class if you do it quietly and don't interfere with class, and after class, at recess, at lunch, etc. But apparently that isn't good enough for you. You want the government to set aside time during class when everybody is supposed to pray. In other words, you want the government to promote religion.
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jason_lakewhitney wrote:
What I don't understand is how far can the Freedom of Religion be stretched?
What does this have to do with freedom of religion? You can pray any time you want! You have the freedom to pray before class starts, during class if you do it quietly and don't interfere with class, and after class, at recess, at lunch, etc. But apparently that isn't good enough for you. You want the government to set aside time during class when everybody is supposed to pray. In other words, you want the government to promote religion.
scpierre wrote:
You have the freedom to pray before class starts, during class if you do it quietly and don't interfere with class, and after class, at recess, at lunch, etc.
Do you believe that this right or freedom should be taking away?
God Bless, Jason
God doesn't believe in atheist but He still loves them. -
Shog9 wrote:
I think the pledge that precedes it troubles me more than anything
Why, because it says one nation under God?
God Bless, Jason
God doesn't believe in atheist but He still loves them.jason_lakewhitney wrote:
Why, because it says one nation under God?
Because it's just stupid. I can see having adults say some sort of oath or pledge if they join the military or the police or something, but these are just kids. Every time this pledge issue comes up I see pictures of small children in class with their hands over their hearts, and I bet most if not all of those kids have no idea what the word "allegiance" even means. Why on earth would you want little kids to swear their allegiance to anything!? What does it even mean for a child to swear their allegiance to something? This whole pledge business is nothing but brainwashing and indocrination as far as I'm concerned.
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jason_lakewhitney wrote:
Why, because it says one nation under God?
Because it's just stupid. I can see having adults say some sort of oath or pledge if they join the military or the police or something, but these are just kids. Every time this pledge issue comes up I see pictures of small children in class with their hands over their hearts, and I bet most if not all of those kids have no idea what the word "allegiance" even means. Why on earth would you want little kids to swear their allegiance to anything!? What does it even mean for a child to swear their allegiance to something? This whole pledge business is nothing but brainwashing and indocrination as far as I'm concerned.
scpierre wrote:
Why on earth would you want little kids to swear their allegiance to anything!?
You are making a good point. If you wouldn't pledge allegiance to your country, then why would you want your kids too?
God Bless, Jason
God doesn't believe in atheist but He still loves them. -
scpierre wrote:
You have the freedom to pray before class starts, during class if you do it quietly and don't interfere with class, and after class, at recess, at lunch, etc.
Do you believe that this right or freedom should be taking away?
God Bless, Jason
God doesn't believe in atheist but He still loves them.jason_lakewhitney wrote:
Do you believe that this right or freedom should be taking away?
No, of course not. Why would I? People can pray whenever they want to and it doesn't bother me if they do. But this isn't about individuals choosing to pray when they want to, it's about the government setting aside class time that clearly is meant for prayer.
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Shog9 wrote:
I think the pledge that precedes it troubles me more than anything
Why, because it says one nation under God?
God Bless, Jason
God doesn't believe in atheist but He still loves them.No, that and the "liberty and justice for all" lines are pretty much just sauce, something sweet to help us forget the bitterness implicit in what preceded. "I pledge allegiance to the flag and the republic for which it stands" - that's the meat, the actual pledge, the kiss on the ring. In a nation founded on bloody Revolution and the principle that The People are empowered and expected to throw out their Government and replace it with something better... or at least, replace it with something... i find the idea of a pledge, of any idea of allegiance to a symbol or institution, slightly worrying. That we expect our schools, centers of learning - and some might say, indoctrination - for our impressionable youths, to force this pledge upon them... that i find very worrying. Heh... And calling it a nation under God doesn't mean anything if the shepherds we elect decide that what their "sheep" really need is a nice big barbecue...
every night, i kneel at the foot of my bed and thank the Great Overseeing Politicians for protecting my freedoms by reducing their number, as if they were deer in a state park. -- Chris Losinger, Online Poker Players?
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jason_lakewhitney wrote:
Do you believe that this right or freedom should be taking away?
No, of course not. Why would I? People can pray whenever they want to and it doesn't bother me if they do. But this isn't about individuals choosing to pray when they want to, it's about the government setting aside class time that clearly is meant for prayer.
scpierre wrote:
it's about the government setting aside class time that clearly is meant for prayer.
But to who?
God Bless, Jason
God doesn't believe in atheist but He still loves them. -
No, that and the "liberty and justice for all" lines are pretty much just sauce, something sweet to help us forget the bitterness implicit in what preceded. "I pledge allegiance to the flag and the republic for which it stands" - that's the meat, the actual pledge, the kiss on the ring. In a nation founded on bloody Revolution and the principle that The People are empowered and expected to throw out their Government and replace it with something better... or at least, replace it with something... i find the idea of a pledge, of any idea of allegiance to a symbol or institution, slightly worrying. That we expect our schools, centers of learning - and some might say, indoctrination - for our impressionable youths, to force this pledge upon them... that i find very worrying. Heh... And calling it a nation under God doesn't mean anything if the shepherds we elect decide that what their "sheep" really need is a nice big barbecue...
every night, i kneel at the foot of my bed and thank the Great Overseeing Politicians for protecting my freedoms by reducing their number, as if they were deer in a state park. -- Chris Losinger, Online Poker Players?
Your subject line is nice. 1 Samuel 8 God warning about what happens when you put a man in rule over you and not God.
God Bless, Jason
God doesn't believe in atheist but He still loves them. -
Your subject line is nice. 1 Samuel 8 God warning about what happens when you put a man in rule over you and not God.
God Bless, Jason
God doesn't believe in atheist but He still loves them.jason_lakewhitney wrote:
God warning about what happens when you put a man in rule over you and not God.
Yup. I heard yesterday that we've hit a new high for people deployed to Iraq. Good thing we elected some anti-war Democrats, eh? :rolleyes:
every night, i kneel at the foot of my bed and thank the Great Overseeing Politicians for protecting my freedoms by reducing their number, as if they were deer in a state park. -- Chris Losinger, Online Poker Players?
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jason_lakewhitney wrote:
God warning about what happens when you put a man in rule over you and not God.
Yup. I heard yesterday that we've hit a new high for people deployed to Iraq. Good thing we elected some anti-war Democrats, eh? :rolleyes:
every night, i kneel at the foot of my bed and thank the Great Overseeing Politicians for protecting my freedoms by reducing their number, as if they were deer in a state park. -- Chris Losinger, Online Poker Players?
But keep in mind that our military is voluntary.
God Bless, Jason
God doesn't believe in atheist but He still loves them. -
But keep in mind that our military is voluntary.
God Bless, Jason
God doesn't believe in atheist but He still loves them.Enlistment is voluntary. Now. It's been that way for not quite two generations, and hopefully stays that way...
every night, i kneel at the foot of my bed and thank the Great Overseeing Politicians for protecting my freedoms by reducing their number, as if they were deer in a state park. -- Chris Losinger, Online Poker Players?
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What I don't understand is how far can the Freedom of Religion be stretched? People don't want to hear about the Ten Commandments, so they sue get them taking out. People don't want to have a time of pray to God(I am stating the Christian God), so they sue get that changed to a moment of silence. Okay, here is where I find a big problem(among others). If you take out anything that resembles pray in any way to any deity, then does that not invade on Freedom of Religion? What do the Buddhist, Islamics, and other religions think about this? Where does ones right to be offended over step my right to my religious beliefs? What would happen if every time the ACLU files suit against something Christian, a Christian organization counter-suits for invasion on Freedom of Religion? When is to far to far and who says that its to far?
God Bless, Jason
God doesn't believe in atheist but He still loves them. -
I think the pledge that precedes it troubles me more than anything likely to be happening during a moment of silence.
every night, i kneel at the foot of my bed and thank the Great Overseeing Politicians for protecting my freedoms by reducing their number, as if they were deer in a state park. -- Chris Losinger, Online Poker Players?
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I believe that phrase was added in the 1950's. It was never part of the original pledge.
_____________________________________________ Flea Market! It's just like...it's just like...A MINI-MALL!
It's the original pledge that i have issues with... ;)
every night, i kneel at the foot of my bed and thank the Great Overseeing Politicians for protecting my freedoms by reducing their number, as if they were deer in a state park. -- Chris Losinger, Online Poker Players?
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scpierre wrote:
it's about the government setting aside class time that clearly is meant for prayer.
But to who?
God Bless, Jason
God doesn't believe in atheist but He still loves them. -
Enlistment is voluntary. Now. It's been that way for not quite two generations, and hopefully stays that way...
every night, i kneel at the foot of my bed and thank the Great Overseeing Politicians for protecting my freedoms by reducing their number, as if they were deer in a state park. -- Chris Losinger, Online Poker Players?
Then what is your take on fighting for your country, either by enlistment or draft?
God Bless, Jason
God doesn't believe in atheist but He still loves them. -
Are you just dense or deliberately playing dumb?
Mongkut to a Christian missionary friend: "What you teach us to do is admirable, but what you teach us to believe is foolish".
I think it is an honest question to ask. Who or what deity is the prayer time for? Does it really matter? If that time is for you to pray to whoever or whatever. Would an atheist still find it offensive if the state set aside time to pray only to Buddha or Allah but not allowing that time to pray to Elohim?
God Bless, Jason
God doesn't believe in atheist but He still loves them. -
People seem to have such fragile and vulnerable beliefs. Participating in an public event that remotely 'feels' like prayer has ended up with militia taking arms against religion. Plus it gives them their 15 minutes. I've attended public school, I was confident enough with my beliefs that I didn't feel threatened at the slightest mention of God or the act of praying.
Think of it this way...using a Stradivarius violin to pound nails should not be considered a sound construction technique
yep
Think of it this way...using a Stradivarius violin to pound nails should not be considered a sound construction technique
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Then what is your take on fighting for your country, either by enlistment or draft?
God Bless, Jason
God doesn't believe in atheist but He still loves them.Honestly? I think it's a sin and a product of sin. I think, when faced with an attack on your family or those you've pledged to protect, it is perhaps the lesser of two evils, if such a thing can honestly be said to exist... but every effort should be made to avoid it.
every night, i kneel at the foot of my bed and thank the Great Overseeing Politicians for protecting my freedoms by reducing their number, as if they were deer in a state park. -- Chris Losinger, Online Poker Players?